Widtsoe- magnetic forces

[h2001st]

Does anyone know what Widtsoe was referring to when he mentioned the body converting magnetic forces? Also what is the discrepency between the magnetic force and affect of the magnetic sense?

Joseph Smith as Scientist: A ... - Google Book Search

footnote of p.123.

[Hemidakota]

A good question. I had to read the whole chapter to figure out what was being stated. I do believe it is dealing with additional senses that we are not yet come to understanding how it works. We do know through evidence given today, animals, especially birds have this sense to help them to navigate the telestial sphere. Even known how Whales seemed to migrate from breeding grounds to eating grounds. How would this apply to humans if we can sense properly as we do the other five senses?

You can clearly see where he was stating in the end of the chapter on being attuned to the Spirit. Does this have any indication of having a magnetic sense on homing in on the Light of Christ?

Random House Webster's College Dictionary - 'hysteresis'

n. a lag in response exhibited by a body in reacting to changes in forces, esp. magnetic forces, acting upon it. [1795–1805; < Gk hystéresis deficiency, state of being behind or late = hystere-, var. s. of hystereîn to come late, lag behind, v. der. of hýsteros coming behind + -sis -SIS] —hysteretic adj.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

To add some further weight added to the term 'attunement', what I was am referring too:

Principles of Light and Quantum Mechanics

In addition to its central role in the theory of relativity, light plays a vital role in our everyday world and in the microscopic world. What is light? Where does it come from? What are its properties? Joseph Smith left us with many interesting insights about light.

Revelations to the Prophet point out that light, truth, intelligence, and spirit are all intimately related. For example, in Doctrine and Covenants 84:45, Joseph records "For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Thus, a better understanding of light involves a better understanding of truth and spirit. As already noted, Joseph also associates the primal element called "intelligence" with light:

Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth. . . . He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things. Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. (D&C 93:23, 28-29)

Similarly, in the King Follett Discourse, Joseph taught that our first existence in pre-mortality was as an intelligence:

The mind or intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. . . . I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it had a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven. (TPJS 353)

As suggested in the previous section, a possible implication from these statements is that the intelligence of spirits is the spirit element from which spirit bodies were born (Abr 3:17-22). This spirit element is identified as the "light of truth," and since light shines or radiates outward from its source, intelligence apparently radiates truth, which is the "knowledge of things as they are, as they were, and as they are to come" (D&C 93:24). In addition, Joseph points out that intelligence is self-existent with God and cannot be created nor destroyed. However, it can evidently be magnified, and through a spiritual birth process, it becomes a spirit body, or "organized" intelligence (Abr 3:22-23).

Quoting again from Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8, the Prophet taught that the spirit is made of fine or pure matter: "There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes; We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter." Integrating these teachings of Joseph Smith from D&C 93, 131, and the King Follett Discourse, a reasonable conclusion is that the Lord organized spirit matter from light, or intelligence. Consequently, Joseph had some insight into the modern scientific concept of a fundamental relationship between light and matter.

In the revelation known as the "olive leaf" (D&C 88), which was given to Joseph Smith at Kirtland, Ohio, on 27 December 1832, the Prophet records "light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space-The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things" (D&C 88:12-13). This is a very profound, far-reaching statement. Light radiating from God is in all things, gives life to all things, and is the law that governs all things. Consequently, matter is governed by light, and condensed, normalized light vectors are the basic functions of quantum mechanics instead of probability distribution functions based upon the uncertainty principle (Cook and Cook 33-34). God, the super-intelligence of our order (Abr 3:19), radiates light and truth "in all things" and "through all things" (D&C 88:41).

The Savior Jesus Christ is the medium through which this light carrying truth is radiated to our part of the universe, and it is sometimes referred to as the "light of Christ":

He [Jesus Christ] ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things . . . that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun . . . and the power thereof by which it was made. As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made; And the earth also and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlightenth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings. . . . He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things . . . and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever. And again, verily I say unto you he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons. . . . And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons.

The Lord has complete control over physical light, as well as its ability to enlighten the mind and quicken the understanding. Life itself is the result of special interactions of light in the organizations which God has created. The insights in these revelations given to Joseph Smith are truly inspiring and edifying, and we have only barely begun to understand them.

Through obedience to his Father, the Savior grew "from grace to grace, until he received a fulness" (D&C 93:13). He magnified his intelligence (or mind) until he was filled with light and truth and comprehended all things. Truth is "knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" (D&C 93:24). This is the state of celestial glory "where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future" (D&C 130:7), which as noted earlier, is possible in reference frames moving at great velocities relative to the speed of light. The Lord told Joseph that "the glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth" (D&C 93:36). "Truth shineth" (D&C 88:7), or radiates outward as light, to other intelligences to convey knowledge of what has been, what is, and what will be.

Following the pattern of the Savior, Joseph taught that those who seek and adhere to the truth and obey divine law will receive the light of truth: "And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things" (D&C 88:67).

This implies that by proper attunement to the source of truth, the knowledge and understanding carried by light from Christ can be absorbed by our bodies through a phenomenon analogous to quantum mechanical resonance. This attunement is like the light-matter interactions producing resonance phenomena in radio, television, and spectroscopy. When attuned to spiritual resonant frequencies through obedience, we receive more and more light (truth) until we are perfected. "That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day" (D&C 50:24). Similarly, the Prophet taught, "He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things" (D&C 93:28), and "the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him" (D&C 88:49).

Hence, from the teachings recorded by the Prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants 84, 88, 93, 130, and 131, we gain some understanding of light and of its role in (a) the microscopic (quantum) world, (b) the everyday world of learning and development, and © the relativistic world of high velocities. Light has been organized by God as the governing law of the universe and the matter in it. It is in all things.

Modern scientific disciplines, such as quantum (wave) mechanics, quantum electrodynamics, quantum field theory, and relativity, are all based upon relationships between light and matter. I have long thought that matter may be formed from light through a phase transition involving the Bose-Einstein condensation of light particles (Benson "Diagrammatic"; Benson, "Self-Consistent," 92-96). Obviously, Joseph Smith was familiar with many fundamental ideas of modern science over 150 years ago, which is truly remarkable. [Joseph Smith on Modern Science by Alvin K. Benson]

[poulsenll]

A good question. I had to read the whole chapter to figure out what was being stated. I do believe it is dealing with additional senses that we are not yet come to understanding how it works. We do know through evidence given today, animals, especially birds have this sense to help them to navigate the telestial sphere. Even known how Whales seemed to migrate from breeding grounds to eating grounds. How would this apply to humans if we can sense properly as we do the other five senses?

You can clearly see where he was stating in the end of the chapter on being attuned to the Spirit. Does this have any indication of having a magnetic sense on homing in on the Light of Christ?

Random House Webster's College Dictionary - 'hysteresis'

n. a lag in response exhibited by a body in reacting to changes in forces, esp. magnetic forces, acting upon it. [1795–1805; < Gk hystéresis deficiency, state of being behind or late = hystere-, var. s. of hystereîn to come late, lag behind, v. der. of hýsteros coming behind + -sis -SIS] —hysteretic adj.

Recent research has shown that enzymatic catalysis is affected by magnetice fields. If I remember correctly the work was done at the Univ 0f Utah and the effect occurred at relatively low levels. There is also a report that shows cattle lined up with the earth;s magnetic field. Amazing pictures from satelite maps.

Larry P

[Hemidakota]

Learned something new here. I didn't know that about cattle. Thanks

[GingerGolden]

Does anyone know what Widtsoe was referring to when he mentioned the body converting magnetic forces? Also what is the discrepency between the magnetic force and affect of the magnetic sense?

Joseph Smith as Scientist: A ... - Google Book Search

footnote of p.123.

Seems my computer is giving me a hard time loading stuff, so I haven't been able to read the whole thing. I can't find the footnote your talking about...

I'm wondering if you mean our electromagnetic fields...

Everyone has an electromagnetic field.

I do know that I have a high electromagnetic field.

I cannot wear a watch since after about 2 hours it will stop working.

I know that if I set my clocks in the house that eventually they begin changing their time. One may be at the right time, one may be 5 minutes off and the next 5 minutes different from the last.

I know that I can interfere with regular television and radio stations just by moving around in the house. I've had my dad and my ex husband both fuss at me to either leave the room or get somewhere to not interfere with the broadcasting waves.

I know that while living in an area where there were those great big electric poles, the large metal ones, that I kept a headache that never went away until after i moved away from the area, that I had not had before moving close to them. I also stayed ill more often, with my bones and joints being more painful than they normally are, even though my skeleton is in poor shape because of accidents or abuse.

I know I can mess up a perfectly good and brand new sewing machine as well as old ones that run quite well for others. It seems something to do with the bobbin and the needle area. Mom can fix them sit down and sew and just shortly after I do they clunck up and make a big knot in the bobbin area and I've not done any thing differently than she has.

I am an extra sensitive individual.

I have always had what I consider now to be dreams of the future, the not so good ones where there are buildings blown to pieces and dead or dying people all around me as I'm walking through the area.

When I go to funerals or family reunions, I always know who is the next person to pass on. So much so, that I've stopped going to these family get together's altogether, since I do not like seeing what I see in those individuals and well, I just do not want to know who is next. They either glow, or there is something in their eyes I can see or either they come to me and start talking and then start repeating everything I say to them back to me and they always go to telling me of things that they have done in their life that they would never tell anyone else, which seems a bit uncomfortable. it took me a while to know what that was all about, but that's what they do...

I also see, hear and feel spirit people. (and have done so since childhood)

Sometimes i can hear others thoughts depending on how much concentration they put into their thoughts.

I am an empath, meaning, I do feel the feelings of others, which can be awkward, especially when I was younger, just having a hard time trying to realize that all the feelings I feel are not just my own feelings, but feelings of others...Still have to work on that now as an adult.

May sound strange to some, but it is just life for me...and I do know that a lot of it is because of my high electromagnetic field and think that a lot of it does have to do with it.

I'm not sure if this is what you mean or not, but hope it helps in some way.

Everyone has an electromagnetic field, some are just higher or lower than others

Edited March 19, 2009 by GingerGolden
fixin' typos

[Moksha]

This implies that by proper attunement to the source of truth, the knowledge and understanding carried by light from Christ can be absorbed by our bodies through a phenomenon analogous to quantum mechanical resonance. This attunement is like the light-matter interactions producing resonance phenomena in radio, television, and spectroscopy.

Could this be measured on an E-meter (Electro-psychometer) as discussed in Dianetics?

------------------------

Everyone has an electromagnetic field, some are just higher or lower than others.

I see my aura as varying between yellow to burgundy. How about you?

.

[GingerGolden]

I see my aura as varying between yellow to burgundy. How about you?

Hi Moksha,

I have tried to see auras and it makes my head and eyes hurt, so I don't try any more.

I've never seen my own, but I have seen a white aura around a friend of mine, which actually made me jerk back while trying.

[h2001st]

Seems my computer is giving me a hard time loading stuff, so I haven't been able to read the whole thing. I can't find the footnote your talking about...

From Joseph Smith as Scientist:

"The writer is aware of the beliefs held by many students regarding the so-called touch sense, heat sense, magnetic sense, electrical sense, spiritual sense, etc. So little is known of these subdivisions of the sense of feeling, that they are not considered in this popular writing. There is, moreover, no evidence that the magnetic sense, as an example, if it exists, is a direct effect of magnetic forces; it is as easily believed that the body somehow converts magnetic forces, under certain circumstances, into other forces that may be sensed by man." (Widtsoe, 1908, p. 123).

GingerGolden, I could e-mail you the .pdf?

[GingerGolden]

Could this be measured on an E-meter (Electro-psychometer) as discussed in Dianetics?

I just realized this part of you comment.

Once about, hmm...16 or so years ago. someone had one of those, stick in a electric outlet testers.

I took ahold of the two pieces that you stick in the wall plug in (outlet) and the needle did move a bit, the man who had the tester seemed shocked and told me that he had never seen anyone do that before.

Of course, I hadn't either until then.

It did seem that the harder I concentrated the needle would jump.

thinking *move* and it did...

I do think though that anyone should be able to make the needle move, but I'm no scientist. it just makes sense to me that if I can, you can and you can and everyone else.

It was just a thought that came to me, when I saw him with the tester.

From Joseph Smith as Scientist:

"The writer is aware of the beliefs held by many students regarding the so-called touch sense, heat sense, magnetic sense, electrical sense, spiritual sense, etc. So little is known of these subdivisions of the sense of feeling, that they are not considered in this popular writing. There is, moreover, no evidence that the magnetic sense, as an example, if it exists, is a direct effect of magnetic forces; it is as easily believed that the body somehow converts magnetic forces, under certain circumstances, into other forces that may be sensed by man." (Widtsoe, 1908, p. 123).

Oh, ok, then yes.

Does anyone know what Widtsoe was referring to when he mentioned the body converting magnetic forces?

Also what is the discrepency between the magnetic force and affect of the magnetic sense?

1. I think that they are referring to our electromagnetic fields.

Since our bodies are our outer covering, the vessel that contains our spirits somewhat...

(of course this can go very deep really, or I think it does. For instance, while we sleep, our spirit is in a meditative state while the body rests. Our spirits can actually move about, without our bodies and may move about while we are sleeping. some people call this astral travel, and that it is something that happens naturally for all of us...)

Our bodies are our gloves over our spirits.

Our spirits hold our electricity.

Our light of truth.

"This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine"

Our electromagnetic fields have to do with our spirits. Our spark of divinity.

We all have an active spirit that is many things, including electricity.

Is this also the aura?

(electromagnetic field = aura, Moksha?)

2. What is the difference between our electromagnetic field (magnetic force) and the influence of our (magnetic sense) senses/our feelings/emotional energy vibrations that we send out and pick up on?

I'm not sure I understand this question.

What is the difference between our spirit and the influence it has on our own body and senses?

We are conductors of that which we sense... (???)

The light/spirit comes from our Heavenly Father and radiates from him and from us back to him in a circle/cycle of energy.

We all have this...

Perhaps, it depends on our own awareness as to how we each reflect the energy we get from on high to the world we live in, the people, issues and things we associate with as well as back to the heavens...

Random House Webster's College Dictionary - 'hysteresis'

n. a lag in response exhibited by a body in reacting to changes in forces, esp. magnetic forces, acting upon it. [1795–1805; < Gk hystéresis deficiency, state of being behind or late = hystere-, var. s. of hystereîn to come late, lag behind, v. der. of hýsteros coming behind + -sis -SIS] —hysteretic adj.

I have no real sense of time, distance, depth, age and so on...

I instinctively know day from night. Morning noon and night, but not one hour from another, in those times...

If it were not for clocks and calendars, I'd not even be in time with the rest of the world.

I do know that children are children and that adults are adults, but to know whether someone is 10 or 12, 24 or 34, 45 or 55, 66 or 96, well ummm, not really.

I was told once from a native American that I was on Indian time, not white people time (makes sense to me the way they explained it as I recognized the things they told me in myself, and I am 1/8 Cherokee {all maternal bloodline = me> mother> grandmother> great grandmother and she of course was pure blood Cherokee }).

Hemi, you have a very interesting quote there in all those words.

Our spirits are "spirit is made of fine or pure matter" *snip/edit* "of light, or intelligence."

or

Our spirits are made of fine and pure matter of intelligent light.

We are all different and at different levels of understanding all things. We each have talents that we have developed from our all our senses, including the sense of feeling.

...I think...

Edited March 20, 2009 by GingerGolden

[RobertP]

Funny, I wrote a blog on this recently. I just had to get it out. Then this? Hrm. Don't forget the obvious. Light is intelligence, or part of intelligence, which is light and truth, or the light of truth. You convert light, which shines on something that exists, and the light shows the truth of that thing that exists, and you convert it into? Intelligence. Now you know something you didn't before. Only now it's light you can't see with your eyes, but it is light you comprehend in your mind, for instance to keep your car in the lane. Try that with your eyes closed and the car moving. Transduction. Changing energy from one form to another. Magnetism to electricity, electricity to light, wind to motion to electricity. I think it happens everywhere. Matter to touch, sound to hearing, so then what is taste and smell? All end up in the brain in their way. Yeah, that is a can of worms you open here, although the book is a hundred years old. I am sure I will be pondering on this for some time. I would go as far as desire to gratification of desire as being magnetic, and all emotions have a neurotransmitter element, which has an electrical element, and a magnetic element, which allows you to be attracted to something, while the neurotransmitter itself only has a small gap to jump. That small jump inside is connected to your connection to the world outside, and ultimately the universe if the light came from the sun. Not sure if that helps, but I had to throw that in since it is here. :) Just remember, we have two pin holes of light to take in the whole universe, and a leaky brain behind it. God knows everything. Seems he can see the light we can't, including the photons that don't hit his eyes directly, if that can be one way of looking at it. We are stuck only with the ones that bounce off something and hit our retina and optic nerve directly. A laser shining through a vacuum can't be detected from the side that I know of.

[WANDERER]

Sure we have electromagnetic energy...created by chemical reactions...aka the nervous system. Anyone who has received an electric shock is very aware of that.

Magnetism ...well an understanding of gravity might help...we don't really have all the answers on that one...so a sketchy understanding at best...

As far as I know physics is still trying to answer that one.

On the magnetic sense level...the realignment of the Earth's magnetic field, homing directions in sea animals....

You know all sorts of energy is biologically sensory: photosynthesis, the use of radar in dolphin communication, the ability of a shark to pick up your heart beat...fascinating stuff.

The ability for biological senses to perceive energy forms or forms of matter is limited to the senses...thus always a discrepancy. There are far more forms of sound waves than we will ever hear etc.

[Hemidakota]

Hemi, you have a very interesting quote there in all those words.

Our spirits are "spirit is made of fine or pure matter" *snip/edit* "of light, or intelligence."

or

Our spirits are made of fine and pure matter of intelligent light.

We are all different and at different levels of understanding all things. We each have talents that we have developed from our all our senses, including the sense of feeling.

...I think...

Agreed...our level of understanding is usually based on what is taught to us across the veil, if we have that desire to know and spiritually mature enough to receive it. There are many things that still cannot be taught here. One that comes to mind, is when we understand the properties of a basic neuron and its operations, we will understand our own universe.

[PastorBob]

Agreed...our level of understanding is usually based on what is taught to us across the veil, if we have that desire to know and spiritually mature enough to receive it. There are many things that still cannot be taught here. One that comes to mind, is when we understand the properties of a basic neuron and its operations, we will understand our own universe.

It is coming out of the point of "I am" in the core of your consciousness. On sleeping and waking you are not losing consciousness but withdrawing the universe in or out. When you move the mind to anything, may be you are creating it and don't realize it... the concept of a universe separate from one's being is folly.

This "I am" refered to as Eheieh Asher Eheieh (I am that I am) in the bible is older than time.

If I ask you, where were you before you were born, you may say, "I was not." What is this I who knew it was not? It means "I was not as I am now." It was, is, and shall be.

John 8: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.

[Dravin]

If I ask you, where were you before you were born, you may say, "I was not."

He might, but considering he's LDS he'd more likely say something like this.

[Moksha]

Our electromagnetic fields have to do with our spirits. Our spark of divinity.

We all have an active spirit that is many things, including electricity.

Is this also the aura?

(electromagnetic field = aura, Moksha?)

For what it is worth, the seer stone gave off an interesting aura with Kirilan photography. I suspect that you would as well Ginger.

The light/spirit comes from our Heavenly Father and radiates from him and from us back to him in a circle/cycle of energy.

I think the American standard as represented by Redi Kilowatt, is 60 cycles per second.

[GingerGolden]

For what it is worth, the seer stone gave off an interesting aura with Kirilan photography. I suspect that you would as well Ginger.

Hey that's cool!

Hmmm...

Seer Stone?

What do you mean by seer stone? Or which seer stone?

Tell me about this stone, please. I'm not sure what you mean.

I think it's cool that it did, but I'm feeling a bit clueless here about the stone.

Thanks!

[Moksha]

This one. It may be a fragment of

the Orthanc Stone which was said to

be lost at the end of the Third Age.

[Hemidakota]

Quote the following...

Joseph Smith wrote that in 1823 an angel told him about "two stones in silver bowsÂ…fastened to a breastplateÂ…the possession and use of [which] constituted "seers' in ancient or former times" (JS-H 1:35). Joseph used these and other seer stones that he found in various ways (occasionally referred to by the biblical term Urim and Thummim) for several purposes, primarily in translating the Book of Mormon and receiving revelations (see HC 1:21-23, 33, 36, 45, 49; 3:28; 5:xxxii; CHC 6:230-31).

Historical sources suggest that effective use of the instruments required Joseph to be at peace with God and his fellowmen, to exercise faith in God, and to exert mental effort (CHC 1:128-33). Otherwise, little is said authoritatively about their operation. Occasionally, people have been deceived by trying to use stones to receive revelation, the best-known latter-day example in the Church being Hiram Page (D&C 28:11-12).

While useful in translating and receiving revelation, seer stones are not essential to those processes. Elder Orson Pratt reported that Joseph Smith told him that the Lord gave him the Urim and Thummim when he was inexperienced as a translator but that he later progressed to the point that he no longer needed the instrument ("Two Days' Meeting at Brigham City," Millennial Star 36 [1874]:498-99). RICHARD E. TURLEY, JR.

Reference: Encyclopedia of Mormonism 4 vols.by Daniel H. Ludlow

[Hemidakota]

It is coming out of the point of "I am" in the core of your consciousness. On sleeping and waking you are not losing consciousness but withdrawing the universe in or out. When you move the mind to anything, may be you are creating it and don't realize it... the concept of a universe separate from one's being is folly.

This "I am" refered to as Eheieh Asher Eheieh (I am that I am) in the bible is older than time.

If I ask you, where were you before you were born, you may say, "I was not." What is this I who knew it was not? It means "I was not as I am now." It was, is, and shall be.

John 8: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.

It is not what I am referring too....