Age of The Bible

[Newcomer4831]

How old is the Bible? Or at least the Torah. Also, wasn't Moses the writer of Genesis?

[Just_A_Guy]

Traditionally, yes; Moses is regarded as the author of the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy). My recollection is that, for Jews, these books comprise the Torah.

Someone else will probably correct me on this, but I believe most chronologies put Moses at around 1300 BCE.

[Newcomer4831]

I did a google search and they claim that there are stories that exist in 3,310 BC.

[Just_A_Guy]

Yeah; I think Noah's flood is generally put around 3100 BCE and Adam, of course, would have been around 4000 BCE.

But the accounts of those individuals occur in the book of Genesis, which was (per the traditional view) written by Moses much later.

[Elgama]

just a personal feeling but I have always seen Moses as the Moroni/Mormon of the Torah he was the editor who put together the stories Heavenly Father wants us to learn from

-Charley

[JohnnyRudick]

just a personal feeling but I have always seen Moses as the Moroni/Mormon of the Torah he was the editor who put together the stories Heavenly Father wants us to learn from

-Charley

Yup, that's the way I see it also:)

it is not that earlier men of God did not keep a log, it is just that God saw to it that Moses compiled what He wanted us to havve in the fashon He wanted us to have it.

Abraham is gravy;)

Bro. Rudick

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

According to Zohar, the Torah was created (written) before the creation of the world, so that would make it 3 to 4 billion years old. On the other hand, no text of it has ever been found before 600 BCE.

Take yer pick.

[JohnnyRudick]

According to Zohar, the Torah was created (written) before the creation of the world, so that would make it 3 to 4 billion years old. On the other hand, no text of it has ever been found before 600 BCE.

Take yer pick.

Maybe written according to the "foreknowledge of God.":D

You know it is said that the history of the world and all of it's inhabitants "were written in the stars".

Kinda like that I suppose;)

Bro. Rudick

[Newcomer4831]

With Adam being around 4000 BCE, how did Vedic Hinduism begin prior to that, possibly around 5000 BCE.

[Snow]

How old is the Bible? Or at least the Torah. Also, wasn't Moses the writer of Genesis?

If Moses was the author, then it was written between 1250 and 1280 BC, roughly.

However, the evidence that Moses wrote the Torah (including Genesis) is roughly equivalent to zero.

The prevalent scholarly theory today is that various authors wrote parts of what we know today as the Torah between 1000 and 600 BC and then in about 450 BC someone, redacted, cutting and pasting them together into the Torah.

[Newcomer4831]

I've always been facisinated why people would pick the religions of Abraham to follow. Neolithic Hinduism predates the Torah and what maybe the birth of Adam. Also, are you guys away of the island of Sri Lanka being a possible birth place for Adam?

[Moksha]

According to Zohar, the Torah was created (written) before the creation of the world, so that would make it 3 to 4 billion years old. On the other hand, no text of it has ever been found before 600 BCE.

Take yer pick.

The latter would go hand in hand with the idea that they were all written after the Babylonian exile.

.

[Elgama]

I've always been facisinated why people would pick the religions of Abraham to follow. Neolithic Hinduism predates the Torah and what maybe the birth of Adam. Also, are you guys away of the island of Sri Lanka being a possible birth place for Adam?

This again personal belief but I believe every religion came from the instructions Adam was given by God. As a Latter Day Saint who had interests in other religions before I was baptised I see the Pagan, Hindu. Islamic, Jewish parts of our religion. Which is what you would expect, if the religion of Adam had become segmented. This is why you have something approaching a

Jesus/Christ Model in most religion, because he was taught to Adam and already known and Heavenly Father has taught everyone as best he can with limitations of part truth.

So for me no religion predates that given to Adam however I do not know what level of apostasy and restoration happened between Adam and Moses, I do not believe it is a full account of those years. This is why Joseph Smith is another Moses he restored what will never be removed. What Moses Restored remained in some form.

In our tradition Adam was created not born and I suspect at that time had run of the whole Earth the continents were not yet seperated so he could have been everywhere, presumably he was a hunter/gatherer so will have moved around and we do not know how many years he had to do that in either

-Charley

[JohnnyRudick]

This again personal belief but I believe every religion came from the instructions Adam was given by God. As a Latter Day Saint who had interests in other religions before I was baptised I see the Pagan, Hindu. Islamic, Jewish parts of our religion. Which is what you would expect, if the religion of Adam had become segmented. This is why you have something approaching a

Jesus/Christ Model in most religion, because he was taught to Adam and already known and Heavenly Father has taught everyone as best he can with limitations of part truth.

So for me no religion predates that given to Adam however I do not know what level of apostasy and restoration happened between Adam and Moses, I do not believe it is a full account of those years. This is why Joseph Smith is another Moses he restored what will never be removed. What Moses Restored remained in some form.

In our tradition Adam was created not born and I suspect at that time had run of the whole Earth the continents were not yet seperated so he could have been everywhere, presumably he was a hunter/gatherer so will have moved around and we do not know how many years he had to do that in either

-Charley

It amazes me how people blindly follow after the pretended knowledge of so-called scholars on the dates of Scripture.

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy

trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of

science falsely so called:

We know that Moses compiled and wrote the first five books of the Bible.

We know that Moses wrote the "Book of Moses".

What's the deal here?

How can any religion predate Adam?

"There was not yet a man to til the ground.":eek:

There has been apostasy ever since they left the Garden from the time of Cain.

Then we have the Tower of Babel and the scattering.

And the Earth was most likely physically divided during this time also.

Not so sure on that one.

These are not fables, this is History.

I love some of you, Well, this is "Church" and this is "real life".

Bro. Rudick

[Snow]

It amazes me how people blindly follow after the pretended knowledge of so-called scholars on the dates of Scripture.

1. They are "so-called" scholars. Scholars are in fact scholars.

2. It's not blindly following scholars. It's accepting the best explanation of the best educated because of what has been determined and learned about the subject.

We can obviously see where you are coming from.

We know that Moses compiled and wrote the first five books of the Bible.

We know no such thing. You are making that up. You may have faith about it but you don't know it.

We know that Moses wrote the "Book of Moses".

You are making that up too. You simply believe it. You don't know it.

What's the deal here?

How can any religion predate Adam?

How could this possibly be confusing to you? Adam lived less that 10k years ago. Modern man has been around 200k years. The obvious answer to your question is that prior to Adam, men had beliefs about deity.

These are not fables, this is History.

Bro. Rudick

This should be easy for you then. Cite the history and source. - HISTORY, not the religious account.

[HiJolly]

Snow,

By and large I agree with you. It can be rather uncomfortable for the literalists, though. I would also suggest that if it were revealed to one by the power of the Holy Ghost, then they could know it, though if they do not have the gift of introspection and self-examination under the Light of Christ, they could easily be deceived via their own misconceptions.

HiJolly

[Snow]

Snow,

By and large I agree with you. It can be rather uncomfortable for the literalists, though. I would also suggest that if it were revealed to one by the power of the Holy Ghost, then they could know it, though if they do not have the gift of introspection and self-examination under the Light of Christ, they could easily be deceived via their own misconceptions.

HiJolly

Epistemologically speaking, it's possible that one source of knowledge is the supernatural - although I'd dispute that when most people in Church say "I know that _______ is true" that they in fact have any knowledge that it is true, they are merely convinced of it and are frequently factually wrong about it. But even though it is theoretically true (the Spirit as a source of knowing), there is no value to such knowledge outside of that particular person's mind.

Such knowledge, supernaturally obtained, cannot be demonstrated, proven, replicated, pass on, etc. It, in a practical sense, it nothing more than dogma.

The poster above claims that he/we KNOW that Moses wrote the Torah. That Moses wrote it is an impossibility, as so stated. The Torah speaks of Moses death so at best, we can say that Moses wrote some, not all, of the Torah. But not only is there no evidence that Moses actually wrote it, there is next to no evidence that Moses even existed. In fact there is evidence that Moses DIDN'T write it. Some people are simply convinced that he did but possess no real knowledge about it.

[Ceebooboo]

Adam lived less that 10k years ago. Modern man has been around 200k years.

Hey Snow,:)

Not that I need to defend Johnny but you seem to suggest things on " faith " as well.

How do you know that man has been around 200,000 years Where you there or are YOU ALSO following a certain set of " scholars "??

Peace,

Ceebooboo

Edited March 28, 2009 by Ceebooboo

[JohnnyRudick]

. . .We can obviously see where you are coming from. . .

Epistemologically speaking, it's possible that one source of knowledge is the supernatural - although I'd dispute that when most people in Church say "I know that _______ is true" that they in fact have any knowledge that it is true, they are merely convinced of it and are frequently factually wrong about it. But even though it is theoretically true (the Spirit as a source of knowing), there is no value to such knowledge outside of that particular person's mind.

Such knowledge, supernaturally obtained, cannot be demonstrated, proven, replicated, pass on, etc. It, in a practical sense, it nothing more than dogma.

The poster above claims that he/we KNOW that Moses wrote the Torah. That Moses wrote it is an impossibility, as so stated. The Torah speaks of Moses death so at best, we can say that Moses wrote some, not all, of the Torah. But not only is there no evidence that Moses actually wrote it, there is next to no evidence that Moses even existed. In fact there is evidence that Moses DIDN'T write it. Some people are simply convinced that he did but possess no real knowledge about it.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even

over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's

transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

". . .We can obviously see where you are coming from. . ."

No kidding?

And just where do you think you are posting these ideas of yours?

The National Geographic Conjecture site?

But

That is true as you state.

Joshua or one of his scribes may have finished off the last of the writings of Moses we have evidence of this happening in other places.

As to how can there be other religions before Adam, it is because he was the first man and their was no death before him.

All scholars just as any other man, will start out with a pre-supposition when investigating any curiosity.

The pre-supposition of some historical or Hysterical and biblical scholars is that "there is no god or no God, and the story of Creation is only a myth to teach "something or other".

We then go from there and the Lord only knows where man can go putting together the "facts" that he can dig up to prove what he has already supposed.

We all do it.

I just want to point out we are not the only ones.

Bro. Rudick

Edited March 28, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
After thought;-)

[JohnnyRudick]

(Speaking about the Torah or most of it.)

Epistemologically speaking, it's possible that one source of knowledge is the supernatural - . . . But even though it is theoretically true (the Spirit as a source of knowing), there is no value to such knowledge outside of that particular person's mind.

Such knowledge, supernaturally obtained, cannot be demonstrated, proven, replicated, pass on, etc. It, in a practical sense, it nothing more than dogma. . .

In fact there is evidence that Moses DIDN'T write it. Some people are simply convinced that he did but possess no real knowledge about it.

OK. If you say so.

Sooooooooooo, the Bible, Books of Moses, Abraham, the D&C and the Book of Mormon are mearly fables designed to keep the silly busy while the grownups go about the business of making the world a better place.

OK. Got it.

Bro. Rudick

[Dravin]

I've always been facisinated why people would pick the religions of Abraham to follow. Neolithic Hinduism predates the Torah and what maybe the birth of Adam.

Older != true or better. In fact there is a logical fallicy attached to that concept, its called an appeal to tradition, of course the opposite, an appeal to novelty is also a logical fallacy.

Also, if one believes the Torah than I'm assuming one beleives in Genisis which predates anything on the earth (talking about the events depicted not the physical creation of the actual book of Genesis) so its not like you have people believing in the story of Genesis wandering around going, "Hinduism exsisted before Adam but I'm gonna go with the latter anyway."

[Traveler]

How old is the Bible? Or at least the Torah. Also, wasn't Moses the writer of Genesis?

Most texts that are actually used in cretion of a modern version of the Bible are about 1400 years old. Although the Dead Sea Scriptures are the oldest copies of ancient texts they are used very little in determining doctrine.

The Traveler

[JohnnyRudick]

Most texts that are actually used in cretion of a modern version of the Bible are about 1400 years old. Although the Dead Sea Scriptures are the oldest copies of ancient texts they are used very little in determining doctrine.

The Traveler

Although most of the recoverable fragments of the scrolls contain ideas contrary to our understanding of the Scriptures in many places, those pieces that have copies of the Old Testament, the Book of Isaiah which is the best example, match almost to a word with the masoretic text.

There are no Dead Sea Scroll copies of the New Testament.

As i read these posts I acknowledge that Moses did not write the Torah in the format we have it today.

Nor did he write it in the format of the text used to translate it into the masoretic text.

But he did write the text of the Torah up to perhaps the last few pages as I have stated earlier.

After all.

We reason, God could not have had him write a record of his death.

Right?

Bro. Rudcik

[Snow]

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even

over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's

transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

And that pertains to the topic of epistemology and Torah authorship exactly how?

". . .We can obviously see where you are coming from. . ."

No kidding?

And just where do you think you are posting these ideas of yours?

The National Geographic Conjecture site?

Obviously you have no rebuttal so you try and cover up your lack by making an unfunny quip. That's clumsy.

But

That is true as you state.

Joshuah or one of his scribes may have finished off the last of the writings of Moses we have evidence of this happening in other places.

May being the operative word. And it may be that Moses didn't write a word of it or that there were 4 different authors in addition to later editors and redactors.

As to how can there be other religions before Adam, it is because he was the first man and their was no death before him.

If your point is that Adam was the very first human being - modern man - in all existence and that prior to him there wasn't any death... that is so absurd it defies description. Of course, if you have any proof, bring it on. My guess is that you won't and will instead make some unfunny quip instead.

[Snow]

(Speaking about the Torah or most of it.)

OK. If you say so.

Sooooooooooo, the Bible, Books of Moses, Abraham, the D&C and the Book of Mormon are mearly fables designed to keep the silly busy while the grownups go about the business of making the world a better place.

OK. Got it.

Bro. Rudick

What on earth are you talking about or who are you talking to?