Has anyone ever heard that faith, hope and charity are symbols of the God Head?

[martybess]

Has anyone ever heard that faith, hope and charity are symbols of the God Head? If so please explain!! Who's what?

Thanks,

Marty

[LDSVALLEY]

I just asked my wife who is wise and she is not positive but believes they are representative of what the God Head Stands for as a whole. Since most of Christianity believes the God Head represents one being and not three separate ones I would think there would be no who's what.

If they were individual symbols for the separate beings I would assume it works faith-God, hope-Christ, Charity-Holy Ghost. Both groups are generally listed in that order.

As a historical note Faith Hope and Charity represent three biplane Gladiator Fighters (all the fighter planes on the Island) of the RAF that stood against the hundreds of Italian aircraft on Malta in World War Two and helped inspire the Maltese people to hold fast through World War Two.

[TruthSeekerToo]

I've never heard that, but it makes sense.

Although, I would say that faith would relate best to Holy Ghost. Not that they can't all be combined, etc. I agree Jesus Christ aligns perfectly with hope.

Of course, like LDSV says, being unified they all are faith, hope and charity.

[martybess]

I think Christ makes perfect sense connected with hope. Charity is the perfect love of God so that goes but I don't know?? Anyone else??

[Moksha]

Hope nobody tries to connect them with Volts, Watts and Amps.

[Guest tomk]

I'd speculate:

God = Faith

Christ = Charity

Holy Ghost = Hope

But all three possess these attributes in their fulness. None is lacking in some aspect. But they do fulfill different roles. It's Father's Plan, which Christ administers through the Holy Ghost.

Tom

[martybess]

Thanks All. I was having issues with this and I'm worried about the person who told me as well. What has been said has helped.

[applepansy]

In my 51 years of being involved in the church and being taught by people who later became GAs. . . I have to say I've never heard this connection.

I searched and couldn't find it anywhere.

To me all three values (faith, hope and charity) embody Heavenly Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost both individually and together as a Godhead. I don't know how anyone could separate them and give them a specific label. All three virtures apply to each.

applepansy

[NeuroTypical]

[teenage snark on]Sounds like a man-made expansion on scripture to me. Also sounds goofy on it's surface. If one of them represents charity, does that mean the other two AREN'T a source of charity? Or if God isn't the 'main' source of hope, and you desperately need hope, should you be tempted to set aside the commandment on who we pray to, and pray to the 'hopingist' one?

[teenage snark off]

I like my man-made expansions a little less easy for surly teenager-ish snark to poke holes in. Like this:

Faith is belief in the atonement.

Hope is belief that the atonement can apply to you.

Charity is belief that the atonement can apply to others.

It makes sense, because charity is the greatest, and we're commanded to forgive or bear a greater sin than the original offense.

LM

[Still_Small_Voice]

As Loudmouth_Mormon stated I believe it is three steps in spiritual progression:

Faith leads to hope, and hope progresses into charity (the pure love of Christ).

[martybess]

Faith leads to hope, and hope progresses into charity (the pure love of Christ).

Faith leads to hope? I thought hope leads to faith. Please expound.

[martybess]

I thought hope leads to faith?? I am confused about this anyway. I have a hard time distinguishing the difference between faith and hope. I think I need to start a new post and ask for input. As an example if I say to myself “I hope I get better now that I had a priesthood blessing” I should say “I have faith I’ll get better”. Or “I hope the world doesn’t continue downward”. I should say “I have faith the world will improve with effort”. Every time this is what pops in my head when I hear someone say “I hope” I say to myself “have faith and it will”.

[NeuroTypical]

You can hope about anything you like, it can be either a true or false hope. It's technically true about faith as well, but when Mormons use the term faith, we're talking about faith in Jesus Christ. And when we talk about faith in that way, no, you can never have misplaced faith.

You can hope to never get a calling you get. You can hope the IRS won't lose your tax refund. You can hope whatever you want. But if you have Faith in Jesus Christ, it will never be a faith in something false.

LM

[martybess]

Please stay with this thread [Loudmouth, Changed and Still Small Voice] I'm going to spend sometime here thinking about this. The deeper meaning that was touched on.

I'm going to do some pondering. Will post hopefully later tonight.

-Marty

[NeuroTypical]

[Tries to sit down on the folding chair, tips over backwards with a shriek, kicking the table and scattering flatware everywhere in the process]

[martybess]

Changed,

In your post you linked to this article. Thank you!

Ensign Feb 2007 [The Good Samaritan:Forgotten Symbols] By John W. Welch Brigham Young University professor, J. Reuben Clark Law School, and editor in chief, BYU Studies

“The man who was going down is Adam. Jerusalem is paradise, and Jericho is the world. The robbers are hostile powers. The priest is the Law, the Levite is the prophets, and the Samaritan is Christ. The wounds are disobedience, the beast is the Lord’s body, the [inn], which accepts all who wish to enter, is the Church. … The manager of the [inn] is the head of the Church, to whom its care has been entrusted. And the fact that the Samaritan promises he will return represents the Savior’s second coming.”

Interesting thing I picked up on "the beast is the Lords body, in [inn]".

(Hebrews 10:19-20)

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

When Christ paid for our sins and was crucified the veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom. The crucifiers tore[rent] his flesh, Christ rent the veil in the temple. Christ suffered both (body=flesh was torn) and (spirit=torn away from the Father) and by doing so made it possible for us to see God once again. To signify that he had done this he rent the veil making God accessible. We can walk back thru the veil into his and the Fathers presence.

Also the veil was rent hanging between heaven and earth because of Christ. - (Mosiah 15:8)

“And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men”

The veil was rent while Christ hangs on the Cross. His flesh torn for us the veil torn top to bottom for us. The top to bottom I think implies Christ has made the way back easy. One does not have to side step or anything like that to walk back unto the Father. Straight through is the way.

The Veil represented Christ, our Mediator

The Lord Jesus Christ dwelt between the Cherubs on the Mercy Seat behind the Veil

(Gospel Symbolism - Joseph Fielding McConkie)

Paul identified the veil as a symbol of the flesh of Christ (Hebrews 10:20). It was the rending of the veil, or Christ's death, that enabled all by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel to enter into the divine presence. This symbolized the end of the old covenant of death and announced the new covenant wherein all may receive the "fullness of his glory" (D&C 84:24). The Mosaic dispensation had now ended; the new and everlasting covenant had been reestablished. With the rending of the veil, all exclusive privileges associated with the law of Moses were abolished, distinctions in the flesh were at an end, the carnal law was suspended, and the higher law returned—all was accomplished because of the atoning sacrifice of him of whom the veil was a type. The same hand that rent the beautiful fabric which hitherto had concealed the holiest of all had now opened the graves to a glorious resurrection for that "innumerable company of the spirits of the just, who had been faithful in the testimony of Jesus while they lived in mortality" that they, like the righteous of all future generations, might enter the presence of their divine Father (D&C 138:12).

I have been studying the temple for a while too and line upon line, here a little and there a little. What a great blessing it is!

-Marty

[martybess]

Now we’re moving fast here! To fast! Lol I will have questions but I have to break this down some.

I have to look through my files for notes on this. I’m not gifted so my files are my brain. LOL Some can recall on demand, some have the capacity to digest information like a vacuum. I wish that was me.

Were going so many ways here now. The temple is where I’m at, it is on my mind all the time. So much is there! That’s why I posted the question about faith hope and charity. But as you stated we must be careful here. False believes by false spirits can deceive one if they are too hungry.

Let me chew on this some more. Let us stay with this and let us ponder. Can you break this thread down into what we have on our plate so as not to miss anything.

Talked about:

God, Jesus and HG.

Faith, Hope and Charity

Veil or Vail – We have touched on.

Cherubims - The Lord Jesus Christ dwelt between the Cherubs on the Mercy Seat behind the Veil. (We need to come back to this)

Flaming sword – As for swords, standard symbolic interpretations include the word of God, meaning covenants, commandments, teachings, and so on.83 Swords symbolize discernment84 and that which separates.85

Curiously, there appears to be a linguistic connection between these two seemingly separate and unrelated symbols. The early twentieth-century linguist and typologist Harold Bayley wrote:

The symbolism of the sword as the word of God is enshrined in the word Sword, i.e. se-word or is-word [meaning] the Fire or Light of the Word. The Anglo-Saxon for a sword was seax [which meant] "the Fire of the great Fire." Similarly the Italian spada resolves into sepada [which translates] the Fire of the Shining Father, and the German sabel into Fire of Bel.86

Thus it appears that in the flaming sword we have a symbol of the celestial and divinely revealed words, commands, or covenants used to discern, protect, and separate the righteous from the disobedient. The cherubs with flaming swords in the Genesis and Moses accounts serve as a representation of those beings who will test us concerning the things we were to learn in this life in order to enter the presence of God.

Tree of life - Trees are used symbolically, that anciently trees were associated with deities, and that tree symbolism is found in many parts of the world. The Tree of Life represents the center of the world, the navel, the omphalos of the universe, the pillar that supports the universe and upon which everything centers. Connects heaven and earth ( like the Jack and the bean stock story), The Tree of Life is a personification of Christ.

M. Catherine Thomas (BYU Scholar) wrote

Two famous trees grow in Eden: the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life (Genesis 2:9, 17). A millennial tree of life in Revelation 22:2 has leaves to heal the nations, an obvious reference to the Savior. Jesus is hanged on a tree of life (Acts 5:30). In vision Lehi and Nephi see a divine tree that is connected with Jesus' saving ministry (1 Nephi 8:10; 11:8). Lehi's dream tree receives at least three meanings: the Son of God and his divine activity (1 Nephi 11:7); the love of God (1 Nephi 11:22, 25); the tree of life (1 Nephi 11:25; 15:22). Since these meanings all overlap, we would understand that Lehi's dream tree represents multiple facets of Christ. It’s possible the tree of life in the garden was an olive tree.

Changed,

I have a question for you..... check your messages

Edited April 18, 2009 by martybess

[martybess]

I have a question about this maybe you know. I sent you a message.