Asenath

[TeancumsSword]

Asenath was the wife of Joseph, son of Jacob, who was sold into Egypt by his brothers and she is the daughter of Poti-Phera, priest of On. My question...

Of what lineage was Asenath and her father Poti-Pherah?

[talisyn]

Umm...Ham? Son of Noah? Best I could come up with

I do not doubt, however, that she was a good person and once she was taught the gospel by Joseph she was even better. After all, she was the mother of Ephraim and Manasseh

[TeancumsSword]

Umm...Ham? Son of Noah? Best I could come up with

I do not doubt, however, that she was a good person and once she was taught the gospel by Joseph she was even better. After all, she was the mother of Ephraim and Manasseh

That's what my reading has led me to understand also, which has led to a perplexing question for me. But I will wait to see if, perhaps, someone has something I have missed in this regards before asking it.

[Moksha]

Could she be of the tribe of Gilgamesh?

[TeancumsSword]

So I guess I will ask the question this has raised for me and look for responses tonight after work...

The Church teaches us that for some reason the Lord cursed Ham and his descendants from having the Priesthood until 1978....

If Joseph's wife was and descendant of Ham, as indicated by her father's name, would that not disqualify the descendants of Ephraim and Mannaseh from holding the Priesthood until 1978...

If Mannaseh could not hold the Priesthood what are the descendants of Lehi doing excersing it...

If Ephraim could not hold it, most early church leaders could not have held it, including Joseph Smith, as it is fairly clear those who's lineage is from Britain (Covenant Man) are literally from Ephraim...

[Just_A_Guy]

Technically, I believe the curse was on Cain. Ham merely passed it on via his marriage with a woman descended from Cain (stories about him stealing Noah's garments notwithstanding).

Whoever the originator of the curse was, there were clearly exceptions pre-1978; Elijah Abel being probably the most well-documented. If the Lord made an exception for Elijah Abel, I see no reason for His not being able to make a similar exception for Ephraim and Manasseh and their posterity.

[bytebear]

So I guess I will ask the question this has raised for me and look for responses tonight after work...

The Church teaches us that for some reason the Lord cursed Ham and his descendants from having the Priesthood until 1978....

If Joseph's wife was and descendant of Ham, as indicated by her father's name, would that not disqualify the descendants of Ephraim and Mannaseh from holding the Priesthood until 1978...

If Mannaseh could not hold the Priesthood what are the descendants of Lehi doing excersing it...

If Ephraim could not hold it, most early church leaders could not have held it, including Joseph Smith, as it is fairly clear those who's lineage is from Britain (Covenant Man) are literally from Ephraim...

I would say the church speculated that the descendents of Ham were withheld the priesthood. And those speculations have been refuted by both early and modern LDS apostles. But, you do not need the priesthood to be a prophet of God. There have been female priestesses, and Joseph Smith was called as a prophet before he was given the priesthood keys. Elijah Able was given the priesthood, and presumably he was a descendent of Ham. There are simply too many speculative concepts to connect these ideas.

[Justice]

The glaring point I see is that Priesthood lineage had always been decided by the father's lineage, not the mother's.

Ephraim and Mannaseh we descendants of their mother, but also of their father, Joseph, who was a rightful heir to the house of Israel.

Could it be that easy? Or, is there something I'm missing?

[Traveler]

Many scholars believe that the Pharoses (including firstborn families) that ruled Egypt during the time of Joseph were descendents of Japheth or in other words Gentile kings and rulers. It is argued that later descendents of Ham (Nubians) took control of Egypt and enslaved the Israelites to prevent a power alliance with their rival predecessors.

It is also argued that Joseph became a gentile and his two sons were given gentile names. That this is a type and shadow for Israel that parallels many prophecies of Israel being scattered among the gentiles (as was Joseph) and that a gentile prophet would arise from among the descendents of the gentile son (Ephraim) and would gather together and reclaim the remnant of Israel as Joseph gathered and reclaimed his brothers.

I believe it is important that we understand that Joseph aligned himself with the descendents of Japheth and not Ham. Otherwise, the prophesies and blessings that follow in scripture based on Joseph make no sense or serve any doctrine.

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

Good point, Traveler.

I would be inclined to take Abraham's description of the roots of Egypt more or less at face value; but the your post reminds me that the Hamite pharaonic lineage described by Abraham probably was not the same as that described by Joseph--at least, if we accept the commonly-held view that Joseph allied himself with one of the Hyksos pharaohs. The Hyksos--shepherds from the Levant, IIRC--were seen as usurpers by the native Egyptians, and their fall from power hypothetically accounts for the enslavement of the Israelites after Joseph's death.