Need advice, may leave church

[Dravin]

(sorry, my English major is kicking in..."woah" is spelled "whoa"--thank you and now back to your normal programming)

Not if you want the Holy Ghost to sound like Keanu Reeves.

[bjw]

When I teach at church, I've taught that at some point in your church "career", you WILL get offended....you WILL find something about the church that displeases you or offends you....you WILL have a moment when something or someone makes you wonder about your testimony of the church. So I then ask a rhetorical question to my class..."what is it going to be for you, personally?" Is it going to be someone saying something to your kids that ticks you off? Will it be finding out that your bishop has sinned greatly and is now excommunicated? Is it the husband of that woman you can't stand is now the bishop?

So, again I say, prepare NOW for what it is that could drive you from the church or attending church. Strengthen your testimony of the doctrine and truths of the Gospel. Forgive others and focus on strengthening faith in the Lord. Make a real commitment and covenant to follow Christ and His chosen leaders.

This is something that I haven't thought much about through all of this but it brings up a good point. I feel like my anger toward the bishop, SP, EQ Pres, and clerks makes it easier for me to just stay home Sundays and not have to face these people. I think that if I do decide to go back I will have to learn to forget about this anger and go for the message and not these people. Besides, the church rotates these leaders every so often anyway. I'm glad you brought this up because this is something I would like to get straightened out before I decide if I am going to go back.

[bjw]

I have a little update on my situation...

I had my meeting with the head high councilman this morning. We talked for about an hour about my concerns and it did help me to feel better about this situation, but I am going to have to find a way to reconcile with the other local leaders. I let you know a few of the things I brought up to him and what he told me:

The Ira Fulton situation: He said he is flying to SLC this week for a business trip and he would check on it while he was there. He said he believed there must be more to the story because he couldn't imagine the church being that careless, since he used to work in the church's finance department.

Joseph Smith: He said JS wasn't perfect and that he believes some accounts of his life are exagerrated by people trying to make him look bad. About the Kirtland bank failure he said many other banks failed this period, but JS took a lot more heat than other bankers because so many believed he was a prophet, and that all his investments must make money. He said the people just put too much faith in JS as a man and didn't realize he was human like everyone else and made mistakes. He said he realizes the church is going to try to show its leaders in the best light possible so you have to try to find a balance on your own.

Emma Smith: The church tries to focus on the positives she did instead of the negatives, being more optimistic about her. He did confirm that Emma apostacized from the church later in life and didn't go west with the saints.

Book of Mormon plagiarism accusations: He said he believed that Satan has set up a lot of these things to appear similar to the BoM, and that there's only so much language you can use about the resurrection as in Alma 40 (which some claim quotes the Westminster Confession). He said he believed this about the Spaulding novel as well. Also, that the covenants taken by the Gadianton Robbers were an example of Satan attempting to counterfeit the temple covenants.

Endowment/Freemasonry, Initiatory/Wicca Connection: He said that many other traditions still have the temple rituals somewhat intact from ancient times, but since they were not lead by prophets and didn't have the priesthood they were left to start their own societies with these traditions. These traditions were passed on from ancient times, and since they are hinted at in ancient texts and archaology people know the ordinances should be done, so they do them but don't have the proper authority that we have in the church. I thought this made sense since masonry and wicca both claim their ceremonies origination has been lost "in the mists of time."

Cain/Satan taking blood oath in the Book of Moses: I asked if he thought this was not plagiarized from masonry but was instead Satan's early attempt to counter a type of a temple covenant, and he said I was on the right track. That Satan always tries to counterfeit the things of God.

Polyandry in the early church: He said this occured so the women could be sealed into the covenant because sometimes they were in a time only marriage. Both the ex-bishop and this high councilman seem to think that many of these were not consummated like the other polygamous marriages. He also said that no seduction was involved with young girls like the antimormons try to claim.

All in all I was satisfied with his answers to my questions and I felt it was a very meaninful discussion. I showed up at his house pretty much thinking I was on my way out of the church and I left with a much better understanding. I could tell that he had the Spirit and I felt satisified with the answers he gave. I think it just goes to show that we shouldn't expect perfection from the church. The fact that he was so knowledgable also makes me glad, because it kinda dispels the idea that the church is trying very hard to hide the truth from everyone.

After talking to him I've decided I would like to try to go back after I take some time to contemplate a little more. I also need to smooth things over with the rest of the church leadership that I feel are still angry at me. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Thanks everyone on here for continuing to support me.

[ztodd]

We're always here for ya- I'm real glad to hear that things are going better.

[Moksha]

Thanks everyone on here for continuing to support me.

We will continue to support you, just let us know.

[john doe]

After talking to him I've decided I would like to try to go back after I take some time to contemplate a little more. I also need to smooth things over with the rest of the church leadership that I feel are still angry at me. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

I doubt that they are angry with you. I would imagine that they are more hurt that you would think and say such things about them before trying to understand the situation more fully. Although, the hurt can turn to disgust if this becomes a pattern with you. Dragging people and the church through the mud every time you choose to become offended has a way of making people a little callous when dealing with you.

[bjw]

I noticed something interesting tonight when I was going through my Patriarchal Blessing. One thing caught my attention and just suddenly hit me that I hadn't thought much about, and I'd like to share it with you guys to see what you think. There is one sentence that is kinda random and doesn't pertain to much of what is around it. It says "You will have an understanding of the various parts of the church, the diversity of operations." This comes oddly right after a sentence about believing in Jesus Christ and the Atonement.

I hadn't really given this much thought until now, but I'm wondering if this may have something to do with the situation I'm going through now, since this pertains a lot to my concern about how our church is operated. I wonder if this patriarch has said this to others or if this is common in patriarchal blessings. Either way, I think its pretty interesting. I suddenly had a strange feeling when I got to this sentence while reading the PB tonight. Any thoughts?

[its_Chet]

I noticed something interesting tonight when I was going through my Patriarchal Blessing. One thing caught my attention and just suddenly hit me that I hadn't thought much about, and I'd like to share it with you guys to see what you think. There is one sentence that is kinda random and doesn't pertain to much of what is around it. It says "You will have an understanding of the various parts of the church, the diversity of operations." This comes oddly right after a sentence about believing in Jesus Christ and the Atonement.

I hadn't really given this much thought until now, but I'm wondering if this may have something to do with the situation I'm going through now, since this pertains a lot to my concern about how our church is operated. I wonder if this patriarch has said this to others or if this is common in patriarchal blessings. Either way, I think its pretty interesting. I suddenly had a strange feeling when I got to this sentence while reading the PB tonight. Any thoughts?

It's not in mine. Sounds like what you're going through right now is questions are being raised so that you can get the knowledge you've been promised. And I mean true knowledge, about how some of the seemingly "bad" things that have happened in Church History, when you dig deep enough, have an explanation that will allow you to retain your testimony. Kind of like when we learn that at least some of the plural marriages performed in the 1830s and 1840s were platonic and strictly for Celestially dynastic purposes. I've found that there's always an explanation behind everything.

Sounds to me like the reason this is all happening is to refine your testimony, to try it by fire. You're suffering life's disappointments, you're being harshly treated by members of the Church in leadership positions, and you're being tempted to give credence to the miscalculations, lies, and misunderstandings of the critics of the Church. I'd hate to have to deal with all of that at the same time, and I'm sure you deserve consideration for it, in spite of the incorrectness of such criticisms.

But I'm thinking that if you can remember how it feels to have the Gift of the Holy Spirit, and all the other blessings that the Gospel of Jesus Christ brings you, and to know that it's because you're a member of the true Church of Jesus Christ, which was restored through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith Jr. (thereby marking him and all his successors as true Prophets of God), then when the trials come, you'll have faith strong enough to endure. So it may hurt if your EQ President is unsympathetic and uncaring, or if your Bishop and Stake Pres don't seem to have the patience to help you out of this situation instead of reinforcing the negative ideas you're having about the Church, at least you can remember that the Gospel is true, and your relationship with God will not suffer.

In the final words of David W. Patten, "Whatever you do else, Oh do not deny the faith."

Also, I'm thinking that your Patriarchal Blessing is giving you notice that perhaps you may in the future be called to serve in a leadership position. I know it doesn't come right out and say that, but I infer the distinct possibility. Anyhow, given your experiences with your EQ Pres and others, you'd be well trained on how to succor the needs of those you serve, having seen how NOT to do it. You'll have a keen understanding how it feels when someone in a leadership position doesn't have sufficient empathy for others. You'll also learn how to help people who are losing their testimony, because you'll have passed through that fire and come out in one piece. You'll know how to answer the questions, how to reinforce the weakened faith. But most important, you'll know how to do it with genuine kindness and love, because you'll know what needs to be done and how it feels when it's not done that way.

I know this may sound unreasonable, or like I'm simplifying something that is actually very difficult, but I strongly encourage you to avoid being critical of those that have been called to serve in leadership positions. I don't know if you've been through the Temple yet or not, but we are taught in the Temple that "speaking evil of the Lord's anointed" is very serious business and something we really want to avoid doing. That's not to say that imperfect people don't get called as Bishops, Stake Presidents, etc. I've heard lots and lots of stories about such a thing. But if we allow the imperfect actions of an individual to represent, for us, the entire Church and the Gospel that only it teaches, then we stand in danger of cutting the threads that link us to God, as well as anyone else to whom we might confide our doubts. This has very harmful consequences for us in the next world.

I can't claim to know how it feels to have an insensitive or errant Bishop or Stake President, but I hope if I did, I could continue to feel as I do now. And the way I feel is that I am unwilling to let the flaws of another person cause me to harm myself. I will not start flirting with women at work if my wife hurts my feelings, for example. That would only be punishing me for what she did to me. If revenge is that important to me, why would I inflict the damage upon myself? That's what I would effectively be doing in such a situation, despite the illusion of temporary comfort. Never hurt yourself. Never harm your own testimony. Stay as far as you can from the writings of those who are critical of the Church. They are all either unfamiliar with what they claim to understand, or partly so, or they do understand and they're lying. They're all misled, and regardless of their intentions, are misleading others.

Sounds like you've got reserves of spiritual strength. Build on that, friend. Build your testimony with the help of the Holy Spirit. Seek after peace and confidence, and any other manifestations of the Holy Spirit that you have encountered in your life when things were going right and made sense. Avoid anything, no matter how harmless it may appear (like, for the time being, the official History of the Church), if it brings you doubt, depression, anxiety, nervousness, creepiness, emptiness, fear, or anger. The Holy Spirit will lead you in the right way for you, which ultimately will be the “iron rod”, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as revealed to us through the Apostles, Prophets, and Presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Savior has your back. Rise and endure. Be strong. You can do it.

[bjw]

Its_Chet:

Thanks for the great advice. That was a very good post and was just what I needed to hear right now. The past few nights I've been trying to make it a point to pray and read my scriptures, it helps me feel better. I hope what you're saying is right and that God has a way to use these experiences to better prepare me to help others, and have better experiences in the church.