Eternity...?

[Aesa]

After reading the posts in "TheyCallMeMom"s thread I decided I wouldn't make this post in her thread but rather separate.

What on earth is appealing about eternity with family members and so forth? Most old people I meet cannot wait until they die, because they've experienced this consciousness for long enough.

Just think about it for a minute. Eternity has no ends and bounds. There is no getting away, there is no indulgent behaviour (because you're in God's kingdom remember, so it's what He says go's), there is no free-will anymore. It's either obey or you're out (Lucifer being cast out of heaven is a relevant example here).

I don't know... to me the idea that my conscious awareness will cease entirely in about another 70 or so years is very appealing. I don't want to spend an eternity in this mind, in this body, consciously aware of this universe, bound to any other part of this existence, ...

Seriously. Stuff that.

I'd rather be dead.

What's so appealing about an eternity of static consciousness?

[Jamie123]

LOL - you remind me of something a Catholic author (it might have been David Lodge) once said about Heaven being a "High Mass that goes on for ever and ever" and who would want that? My idea of heaven though is something like waking up afresh after a restful night to new challenges.

[Aesa]

I'm also referencing having to live with... the people on this Earth... for eternity. :\

[DigitalShadow]

I've always thought that eternity would get pretty boring, but I also think 70 or so years is not enough. Maybe I'll feel differently in another 40 years, but it seems like there is so much to do right now.

In any case, most religions also believe it will be somehow different and much better on the other side (assuming you were "good") and not the same consciousness we experience here.

[talisyn]

Eternity just might be enough time to accomplish all I want to do. Maybe what you need are some eternal goals, like learning how to surf or grow exotic minnows?

[john doe]

I think you are working with a very limited understanding of what life in the Kingdoms of Heaven will be like.

[pam]

I think eternity will be just heavenly.

[Guest Godless]

I'm with you 100%, Aesa. Though I think you may be underestimating the religious definition of what eternity will be like for the righteous. It's probably not as boring and pointless as you make it sound, but it still seems unnecessary.

The way I see it, eternity is a concept that was invented by mankind thousands of years ago as a way of making death easier to cope with. The natural mindset of the conscious human mind towards death is a negative and often fearful one. The idea of no longer being conscious scares people for some reason, so we have religion to tell us that there's a glorious kingdom waiting for us if we believe x, y, and z.

[pam]

You know I love ya Godless and you know I will also disagree with what you just posted. But people are welcome to their opinions and I can accept that.

[Jamie123]

I'm also referencing having to live with... the people on this Earth... for eternity. :\

Reminds me of the TV show Red Dwarf, when Holly tells Lister he must spend eternity with the despised Rimmer:

Holly : "Jean Paul Sartre said 'Hell was spending all eternity in a room with your friends.'"

Lister: "Yeah but Holly, all his mates were French!"

[Guest Godless]

You know I love ya Godless and you know I will also disagree with what you just posted. But people are welcome to their opinions and I can accept that.

Yes, I know my view here won't be a very popular one. Just throwin' it out there for consideration.

[pam]

*Considering Godless' post* Okay I've considered it and yep, I still disagree with it. hahaha

[DigitalShadow]

Yes, I know my view here won't be a very popular one. Just throwin' it out there for consideration.

I agree with your assessment completely, but that's probably no surprise either :)

[Tough Grits]

Either two things are going to happen when I die:

1. GAME OVER...in which case I won't be able to say Godless was right (), because there will be NO final thoughts, no final images. NOTHING. BLANK SCREEN. In which case, at least I lived a good life.

2. Everything I believe is true. I will face Heavenly Father on judgement day and I will be placed in an eternal kingdom based on my earthly life and choices. In which case, I hope I live my life in such a manner that I get to where I am striving to go.

Seeing it in this light...I definitly want to err on the side of caution!

~TG

[hordak]

Either two things are going to happen when I die:

1. GAME OVER...in which case I won't be able to say Godless was right (), because there will be NO final thoughts, no final images. NOTHING. BLANK SCREEN. In which case, at least I lived a good life.

2. Everything I believe is true. I will face Heavenly Father on judgement day and I will be placed in an eternal kingdom based on my earthly life and choices. In which case, I hope I live my life in such a manner that I get to where I am striving to go.

Seeing it in this light...I definitly want to err on the side of caution!

~TG

Or

Godless people , who live good lives because it is the right thing to do are rewarded for their integrity , while those who use Pascals wager are recognized as frauds and punished accordingly.

Not saying you personally or most religious people only do what is right for reward (though i have met many) but as a father I am more impressed when my son cleans his room (even if it isn't the best job) because it needs to be done, then by the pristine job my daughter does so she can play outside.

Just saying.

[DigitalShadow]

Either two things are going to happen when I die:

1. GAME OVER...in which case I won't be able to say Godless was right (), because there will be NO final thoughts, no final images. NOTHING. BLANK SCREEN. In which case, at least I lived a good life.

2. Everything I believe is true. I will face Heavenly Father on judgement day and I will be placed in an eternal kingdom based on my earthly life and choices. In which case, I hope I live my life in such a manner that I get to where I am striving to go.

Seeing it in this light...I definitly want to err on the side of caution!

~TG

I think you're missing a few scenarios there, like maybe one of the thousands of other religions that have existed throughout time are correct and you will be judged based on the criteria of that religion. Given that many religions have conflicting requirements, there really is no way to "err on the side of caution."

[Tough Grits]

Or

Godless people , who live good lives because it is the right thing to do are rewarded for their integrity , while those who use Pascals wager are recognized as frauds and punished accordingly.

Not saying you personally or most religious people only do what is right for reward (though i have met many) but as a father I am more impressed when my son cleans his room (even if it isn't the best job) because it needs to be done, then by the pristine job my daughter does so she can play outside.

Just saying.

I guess I deserve that for trying to be light and add some humor. Maybe you missed all my smiley faces???

If you knew me, you would know that I am a good person, and I was a good person even when I was agnostic.

Even when I was agnostic I was good simply because I think being good is the right thing.

Sorry, I hope my disclaimer now reveals my "integrity".

BTW: Even on my best days, I am far from where I want/need to be. I am well aware of my own faults. I thought I should add this in case I get called for proclaiming myself to be a good person.

~TG

Edited June 1, 2009 by Tough Grits
blatant typo

[Tough Grits]

I think you're missing a few scenarios there, like maybe one of the thousands of other religions that have existed throughout time are correct and you will be judged based on the criteria of that religion. Given that many religions have conflicting requirements, there really is no way to "err on the side of caution."

SIGH

Yes, I am well aware that I did not configure in the MANY different religious beliefs that exist or have existed upon the earth, as I was speaking to Godless.

Again, I was just trying to be light. Apparently my humor was not received well. My apologies for all those who are offended.

[Dravin]

What on earth is appealing about eternity with family members and so forth?

Because I'll continue to be able to love them, laugh with them, help them. I find immense satistfaction and joy being with my family, I don't feel this will stop when we pass on.

Most old people I meet cannot wait until they die, because they've experienced this consciousness for long enough.

In my experience that's because there bodies are broken down. I imagine most 70 year olds if you asked them if they wanted to cease existing right then and there or receive a 20 year old body that never gets ill would choose the latter over the former. My experience is of course not exhaustive.

There is no getting away, there is no indulgent behaviour (because you're in God's kingdom remember, so it's what He says go's), there is no free-will anymore. It's either obey or you're out (Lucifer being cast out of heaven is a relevant example here).

First, this assumes you want indulgent behavior, I don't want stings from fire ants between my toes, a lack of that doesn't bother me in the least. Yes we still have free will after this life, free will does not mean no consequence, in fact if there are truly no consequences for ones actions (good or bad) choice becomes rather irrelevant. Progression doesn't stop after this life, helping others progress (to some degree or another) will never stop. They'll be things to do we won't just be sitting on clouds playing harps for all eternity (to pull up a common cartoon reference).

I don't know... to me the idea that my conscious awareness will cease entirely in about another 70 or so years is very appealing. I don't want to spend an eternity in this mind, in this body, consciously aware of this universe, bound to any other part of this existence, ...

Keep in mind in LDS theology (At least in my understanding) we are eternal, we exsisted since forever and will continue to exsist, what has changed is the nature of that existence, so continued existence in some form or another is not a reward it just is. In the end it comes down to faith in a loving God who is granting us eternal life (not the same as immortality or continued existence) because its the best route for us to go, the one with the most possible joy and satisfaction not a being who is gleeful at the prospect of sticking us with an exsistance as hellish as his (that would be Satan).

Now, I'm not telling you that you are wrong. You are expressing your opinion and not being psychic I can't tell you that such isn't what you think, it just the premises we're operating from are very different so its no wonder we reach different conclusions. :)

Edited June 1, 2009 by Dravin

[DigitalShadow]

SIGH

Yes, I am well aware that I did not configure in the MANY different religious beliefs that exist or have existed upon the earth, as I was speaking to Godless.

Again, I was just trying to be light. Apparently my humor was not received well. My apologies for all those who are offended.

I apologize as well for not picking up on the humor. I was not at all offended, I just wanted to point out that the logic you were using was somewhat flawed since I've seen people make statements like that in all seriousness :)

[Tough Grits]

What on earth is appealing about eternity with family members and so forth? Most old people I meet cannot wait until they die, because they've experienced this consciousness for long enough.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself and from my own perspective.

My sister died when I was 8, she was 10. Because of her illness---severe spina bifida---I could not play with her or get to know who she was (her spirit). I only knew the broken body that I saw and the restricted mental abilities she had.

Even when I was agnostic, I just felt deep inside of me that one day I would know her as she should have been, as her spirit truly was though it was housed in that broken body. To me, nothing would be sweeter than an eternity getting to know that sweet spirit that I never got to know on earth.

Yes, her body may have been greatly relieved to expire and become free of her ten years of pain and surgeries, but her spirit was sweet, beautiful and full of life. I just believe that she is in the spirit world enjoying being free from pain and free of earthly restrictions. I believe she is busy doing Heavenly Father's work, and that she will be one of the first to greet me when my own body expires.

Just think about it for a minute. Eternity has no ends and bounds. There is no getting away, there is no indulgent behaviour (because you're in God's kingdom remember, so it's what He says go's), there is no free-will anymore. It's either obey or you're out (Lucifer being cast out of heaven is a relevant example here).

Part of who I am---and part of what I believe to be true about this gospel---is that we always have agency. However, agency is not free. There is always consequence that accompanies agency.

None of us has a perfect knowledge of the Spirit World, or any of Heavenly Father's kingdoms. None of us can say with perfect clarity what the "rules" will be, or what we will be doing. I have my own thoughts, but those are private and are not up for debate. But my own thoughts lead me to believe that I will not be bored, nor will I regret being part of eternity.

What's so appealing about an eternity of static consciousness?

Personally, I don't think my consciousness has been "static" thus far, as I have grown much, learned much, and loved much in my 35 years upon this earth.

I have every reason to believe that I will continue to grow, learn, and love well on into eternity. I don't want to cease to exist. Not because I am scared of dieing, but because I am enjoying myself and I want to keep enjoying myself.

I have a deep brightness of hope that I will see my sister again, that I will have the opportunity to be with my loved ones throughout the eternities, and that I will see and stand before the Savior and Heavenly Father. This brings me joy.

[the Ogre]

. . . There is no getting away, there is no indulgent behaviour (because you're in God's kingdom remember, so it's what He says go's), there is no free-will anymore . . .

What's so appealing about an eternity of static consciousness?

We don't know what might be going on in eternity. We know it is there. We know we have the opportunity to go. What we don't know is exactly what is going to happen. We don't know what we are going to do. More of the same? I don't know, but I do know Lonely Planet still has not done a travel book on the Celestial Kingdom. Do I have to buy a Rosetta Stone for a Celestial Language? Will I need to bring a pair of galoshes? Sun-glasses? My iPod? A good sci-fi book for the flight?

The day-to-day details are a bit sparse.

One thing I do know, there will be things to do. Salvation will not be static. I don't even think the T&T Kingdoms will be static. I definitely think there will be things to do and more things to enjoy.

I'm praying for cheeseburgers (hold the mayo, pickles, and lettuce, double the onions, tomatoes, and bacon).

Late Edit: One thing I am sure of: we'll be wearing party hats, because every one of us will be surprised (I want a pointy, balloon-print one with streamers and a blue elastic band).

Edited June 1, 2009 by the Ogre

[Guest Godless]

SIGH

Yes, I am well aware that I did not configure in the MANY different religious beliefs that exist or have existed upon the earth, as I was speaking to Godless.

Again, I was just trying to be light. Apparently my humor was not received well. My apologies for all those who are offended.

I'm glad I bit my tongue then. Pacal's Wager is a big pet peeve of mine in religious discussions, and I'm glad to know that you were being tongue-in-cheek when you brought it up.

[Tough Grits]

I'm glad I bit my tongue then. Pacal's Wager is a big pet peeve of mine in religious discussions, and I'm glad to know that you were being tongue-in-cheek when you brought it up.

Thank you, Godless, for biting your tongue!

If one more person had jumped on me for my attempt at being funny I would have just imploded.

I found your post interesting, though. I don't agree, but I was not offended either.

Godless, do you truly believe that all the varied religions of the world---that believe something happens after death---are all wrong and are all basing their beliefs on "making death easier to cope with"? Can so many religions really have it wrong in believing in some kind of afterlife?

I am not attacking, I am just very curious. Even my father who is agnostic believes in something after this life. I had never met anybody, personally, who thought nothing at all happened after death. I hope you don't mind my curiosity.

~TG

[DigitalShadow]

Godless, do you truly believe that all the varied religions of the world---that believe something happens after death---are all wrong and are all basing their beliefs on "making death easier to cope with"? Can so many religions really have it wrong in believing in some kind of afterlife?

I am not attacking, I am just very curious. Even my father who is agnostic believes in something after this life. I had never met anybody, personally, who thought nothing at all happened after death. I hope you don't mind my curiosity.

~TG

I don't know about Godless, but I will answer from my perspective because I always like talking about my beliefs (or lack there of) with people who are genuinely curious.

No matter how you look at it, the vast majority religions that have ever existed are wrong and conflict with each other. Many facets of religion appear to have been designed to make people feel better and cope with things and I think obviously the main thing that people are worried about is death so it seems quite logical that so many religions have a concept of an afterlife to ease fears of what happens after they die.

Personally I don't strictly or dogmatically believe that nothing at all happens after death but at the moment it seems like the most likely scenario to me and I am perfectly alright if it is the case. I have come to terms with the fact that this life may very well be all that we get, our only chance at experiencing anything at all, and so I will make the most of it.

Don't get me wrong, I would be pleasantly surprised if there was some type of afterlife, but I'm not counting on it :)