I'm out of place.

[Tarnished]

I have never felt like I fit in at church either, neither has my husband. But part of being open minded is understanding that there are close minded people on both sides of the fence. To tell the truth we don't go to church for socializing, we go for feeling the spirit and learning. However, we have tried (quite a bit) to make friends with people even if they don't share the same views that we do. And every so very rarely you do end up finding one of those people in the church who share your same views. I truthfully view those people who try to force their political views on me like an old eccentric aunt that I just have to deal with. And remember, if they really drive you crazy you only have to deal with them on Sunday.

[Moksha]

Isn't it amazing the number of people responding who have also experienced not fitting in or having friendships extend out of Church? I think to whatever extent is possible, we should be a support group to one another on this forum.

:)

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

I catch a ton of flack every time I mention that I voted for Obama (I'd have preferred to write in Arnold but Colorado's ballot has revoked that constitutional right). My dad won't disown me for it, but he appreciates if I don't bring it up - and I enjoy talking politics!

The bottom line is that while the church is about your covenants and not the other people you sit in the chapel with, other people can make sitting there pretty unbearable. You have to decide whether you're going to tough it out for the Gospel and for your covenants, or keep moving until you find a congregation that is truly Christ-like and won't judge you (or a congregation of moderate progressives who agree with you ).

[LDSVALLEY]

No offense intended but Americans are strange folk. I have no idea who voted for what party in our church or even my extended family. I personally counted party signs on the way to the polling station and who had the most had my vote. I used to be big with politics until Sunday shopping came in after the province did a plebiscite and voted NO but the corporations wanted it.

Anyway we disagree about many things in our Ward and I am sure most feel they don't fit in from time to time but I've never heard anyone admonished for voting this way or that. There are a couple of people that when they talk scripture they scare me for how much gospel according to anyone but God comes out. I am careful to correct where I can and especially if there are new members around. But I don't give them flack about it or anything else.

Maybe us Canadians are too busy with the cold weather to worry about those things much. Then again in the winter we freeze in the chapel and swelter in the summer so who has the energy to get into heated topics!!!

Lord gave us the freedom to choose. My choice is mine, not better then yours.....Peace to all.

[Vort]

I catch a ton of flack every time I mention that I voted for Obama (I'd have preferred to write in Arnold but Colorado's ballot has revoked that constitutional right).

What do you mean? The constitutional right to vote for someone who is constitutionally incapable of being President, like Donald Duck, Osama bin Laden, or Arnold Schwarzenneger?

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

What do you mean? The constitutional right to vote for someone who is constitutionally incapable of being President, like Donald Duck, Osama bin Laden, or Arnold Schwarzenneger?

The constitutional right to vote for the candidate of my choice - a right warped and convoluted inside electoral college mechanics. What it boils down to is that instead of voting for a candidate, we wind up voting for a group of electors in the college who are pledged to support a particular candidate (known as the "short ballot"). This obfuscates the electoral process to the point where we actually don't know who we are voting for as the electors' names never show up on the ballot. To add insult to injury, some jurisdictions (some at the state level, others at the municipal level) have made laws requiring "write-in registration" which by itself is an oxymoron. The end result is that I, as registered voter, never actually cast a vote for a presidential candidate. Technically - the last presidential election was a deadlock in the popular election with 0 votes to each candidate. W00t for democracy.

[MsQwerty]

Hi MusicMe, I think you'll find that there are more 'like' you and your wife in the church than you may at first realize. What is probably happening is that those with political views that dissent from the conservative position of the church are keeping quiet in meetings so as not to cause contention or detract from the spirit. Until you've been in a ward for some time, it may be difficult to recognize those who have alternative views. Once I was in a ward that I thought was extremely conservative (if gospel doctrine and other class discussions were anything to go by), but after six months or so I stumbled upon a group who held meetings every month outside of church just for the fun of discussing articles in BYU Studies and Sunstone. Was I ever surprised! Turned out that was their outlet for talking about issues that might otherwise stir people up during church meetings..and all of them were what I would have called strong, temple going members who held various callings in the church. Because they were 'intellectuals' (for want of a better word) they were very careful about who they let attend those groups as they didn't want to affect anyone's testimony...and I was not invited to attend for some time since I was very new to the church. I took no offense because I knew deep down I wasn't ready for those kinds of discussions either.

Once you get to know the people behind the Sunday meetings, you will probably find you aren't as alone as you think.

And really, how many of us feel like we are out of place at church? If you took a poll I daresay anyone who doesn't fit the traditional LDS mold or who hasn't lived a relatively charmed and sheltered life, would all say they feel 'out of place' in one way or another. Single people, divorced, sole parents, gay but trying to live a chaste life, part-member familes, converts, disabled, those who are dealing with addiction, adultery and just plain old cognitive dissonance are the people who make up our ward families. We all want to feel like we belong, and we shouldn't feel 'different' just because a few dominant personalities (I was going to say 'loudmouths' but thought better of it) like to make their views known in gospel discussions. Those who like to hear the sound of their own self-righteous voices do not represent the majority of church members, it just seems that way.

Having said that, it's natural to want to have friends in the gospel who just happen to have similar views to us. And you will find them, you just have to give it time and keep your ears and eyes and heart open.

Quite honestly, people should keep their political views to themselves in church meetings, whether they are of a conservative or liberal bent. And as for those who have condemned you for having gay friends, I find that bizarre, since where I come from we are taught to show love and friendship to ALL humankind, not just those who are ever so 'righteous'. That is how we demonstrate the love of Christ in our lives, and it's also the example the Saviour set for us when he mixed with people from all walks of life.

Keep being who you are - and remember that other people in the church are probably looking for friends just like you... but they don't know you are there yet. The church is made up of human beings with all our strengths and imperfections, god wants us all there - not just those who fit a certain mold.

[Guest missingsomething]

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks,

I too am a bit more progressive and less conservative than mainstream lds. Here's my honest suggestion to you.... Stop looking for others to accept you. Dont shove your differences down their throat so to speak... and then... here's the hard one... SERVE THEM. Even if they dont seem receptive... make them a treat... write a note... VOLUNTEER in EQ everytime there is something that needs to be done. Talk to the bishop too - let him know your concerns... then ask him for areas to serve the ward.

I have only 1 buddy buddy in my ward - you know the kind you talk to 3-4 times a week. Church isnt for socialization alone, though that is a big part of it.

Satan would like you to continue to feel isolated. Dont focus on the negative.

[Gatorman]

PLease understand, my following statements do not suggest that these are easy things or that I am even good at them...

Who cares what other people think? Your faith and testimonial strength should be based on you and your Savior. Growing up, I was picked on a lot. I learned about 2 types of people. The first group were laughing to make a joke and have a little fun with me. When I learned to laught at myself, I was able to enjoy the joke with them without any harm done. The second group were the bullies who made fun of me to hurt me and make themselves feel better. By learning to laught at myself, I ruined their fun and they soon stopped bothering. The point being, by keeping that perspective and focusing on the important items, the unimportant things, like making 'friends', become less critical. Lehi was shunned for his beliefs. Samuel the Lamanite, the same. The people we are supposed to study and learn about are often shunned because, they did what they believed was right regardless of what the 'popular' belief was.

[kpatrey]

Musicme,

After reading all these posts I say to myself, "what's so wrong with being a progressive thinker?" I personally believe that if we were all the same life would be pretty boring. I find that I am a more liberal morman....oh my is that a bad word or what??? However, I won't allow what others think about me or my political views keep me from sacrament meeting every week. I won't allow their murmurings make me feel uncomfortable with choices I make. In the end it seems like they are quick to judge you when in fact it is not thier position to judge anyone at all. If you have homosexual friends...who cares?? They are in FACT sons and daughters of God and should we not treat them as such???? Isn't it the sin we are supposed to hate and NOT the sinner?? If I were in your ward I would totally have your family over for dinner....argue over politics and still welcome you every Sunday at the sacrament meeting. I have found that you can't look for empathy on topics like these. I love the church, my Savior, my Heavenly Father with all my heart and soul and I can't imagine anyone putting a wedge between that. It's tough....stick it out and totally hold your head up high for being a "progressive person."

[mesmith]

Musicme,

Just my perspective - I'm not a Mormon(yet) but I am seriously considering joining for the serious discussion/debate/discourse that I feel is part of the church experience with Mormons. I have only a limited knowledge of the faith as yet but one of the most important things that has drawn me in is the search for truth and the need to continue learning that I have seen while reading about the church. It is unfortunate that you feel out of place because you can't have truly open discussions with those at your place of worship, I am certain that I will not agree with most people about every subject but I hope that my difference of opinion will not keep me from learning more about other peoples point of view. I hope that things will work out for you and as long as you continue to follow the standards of the church I think you'll be fine!