How do you know God exist?

[rameumptom]

I joined when I was 16, almost 34 years ago. While I've had visions and a few other neat experiences over the years, it is the working of the Holy Ghost in my heart and mind that has caused me to believe these things.

I've done a lot of study and research, much of which backs up my belief, but realize that for many people such is not evidentiary, but coincidence.

Start by seeking the Holy Ghost in your life. Visions didn't convince Laman and Lemuel. Visions do not give a person the strength to continue in faith. Only a spiritual witness can do that.

[lost87]

I starting really asking the same question..."does he really exist" a couple years ago and am still finding a way to "know", but I do "believe" that He does....here are some things that helped me...

-Amazing talk by Douglas Callister I read in the ensign...here is the link

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Our God Truly Is God

-Kinda along the lines of a prayer journal, only combined with scriptures...

I was reading scriptures daily, but kinda just the "chapter a day" idea...and I wasn't really getting anywhere. I started keeping a scripture journal where every time I had even the most basic thought or connection to something I read I'd write down the scripture quote in black ink and my thoughts in red....this process developed into a "read until you learn something new and powerful" sort of thing and I wouldn't stop reading each day until I found something to learn. This helped soooo much because I was searching for meaning and truth and learning while I read so I could write it down rather than just reading to check it off on my to do list for the day....soooo helpful!

-Missionaries...

I visit with the missionaries every few weeks and hear their thoughts and discussions...its all things i've already been taught because I've always been a member, but sometimes going back over the basics is sooo helpful! They are also very good at answering questions that i've had along the way. I assume you've already been baptized as a child, but they'll still be happy to invest their time in you because "the worth of souls is great" and they aren't just there for the number of baptisms...

-Another journal...

I just started this one and it has been amazing so far...I couldn't seem to get a solid answer to the "are you there" question and when I talked to my bishop about it he suggested that perhaps its because I already know that answer and am asking the wrong questions...he asked me to start caring a journal with me every where i went and recording the things that happen each day that the Lord could have played a part in...The more diligent I was in this the more I cam to realize that He truly is directing my life and is pouring out blessings...I just wasn't seeing them. Even if to start your just writing down things that He could have done for you, or that could just be luck...eventually you'll come to know that the things you are writing are things he is doing for you.

it looks like your doing a lot of studying on your own which is a wonderful place to start...I hope you can find peace in knowing that God is there, that He loves you, and that His Son died for you.

[Guest]

I think the question Does God Exist is completely separate from Is Jesus the Son of God. I think we should just stick with the God question and get a surety on that. Then we can tackle the Son of God one. The God question is a big one that needs its own concentrated effort. Just my thoughts.

In any case, lost87 and I think along the same lines. I spend 2 minutes just thinking about ME. I encourage the OP to do the same. I dwell on my consciousness for 2 minutes. How powerful my brain is. Looking back to my past, then looking into the future. All that power in my head. All the mechanisms, the biology, that support it. All the feelings it invokes. All that to be randomly triggered at birth, then end in death... So, I have to believe in a God. Otherwise, what a waste of consciousness this is.

[bmy-]

Why would he wonder who created it? Did He not create it?

Isn't your statement a bit contradictory? You hope God exists and then you say you think he appreciates...How can you say think someone appreciates something if you aren't even sure they exist?

I do not believe he created the universe.. that's just me though. I don't find that statement contradictory at all.. by me saying I hope God exists.. I am simply admitting I have little to no faith in it -- that doesn't stop me from trying to operate as if He were undeniably real. I want Him to exist.. and if I 'want' and try hard enough.. perhaps that will be enough if He is in fact real.

Edited August 1, 2009 by bmy-

[pam]

Even your last statement seems contradictory to me..Maybe it's just me.

But isn't "wanting him to exist so maybe he will" kind of like saying..I really want the Easter Bunny to exist so if I pretend like he does then he will." You can't just "want" to gain a testimony of it. Or just pretend that he does.

Having little or no faith that He does exist and then state I think He must feel this way just doesn't make sense to me. How can one know how someone feels if they really have little belief that he exists? That is the point I'm trying to make.

Edited August 1, 2009 by pam

[Justice]

Try imagining a mock trial in your mind. One side is trying to prove God exists and the other is trying to prove He doesn't. The trial that plays out in my mind is quite humorous to watch. It is evident to me the side trying to prove He doesn't exist has opinion only... absolutely nothing admissable as evidence in a court.

[bmy-]

Even your last statement seems contradictory to me..Maybe it's just me.

I'll try to think up an analogy.. so stay with me here. It's likely going to be awful.

Say you're in a desert and you're stranded with no water.. near the horizon you see a Dasani water vending machine. You're pretty darn sure that it's a mirage.. but i'm pretty sure we would all do our best to get there just in case.

I hope it worked

Try imagining a mock trial in your mind. One side is trying to prove God exists and the other is trying to prove He doesn't. The trial that plays out in my mind is quite humorous to watch. It is evident to me the side trying to prove He doesn't exist has opinion only... absolutely nothing admissable as evidence in a court.

The burden of proof falls on those making the positive claim..

[pam]

Say you're in a desert and you're stranded with no water.. near the horizon you see a Dasani water vending machine. You're pretty darn sure that it's a mirage.. but i'm pretty sure we would all do our best to get there just in case.

You are right that was pretty awful. Because logic would tell me that there would not be a vending machine sitting just out in the middle of the desert. But due to lack of water I might not be in my right mind and consider that.

[bmy-]

You are right that was pretty awful. Because logic would tell me that there would not be a vending machine sitting just out in the middle of the desert. But due to lack of water I might not be in my right mind and consider that.

It very well could be the dehydration (finals this week, i'm going through a 12 pack of cokes a day!) It's the best I got though. I don't see how it's contradictory to have no positive belief in God.. but to want Him to exist and to live like he does..

I love LDS theology for the most part.. and if the Abrahamic God indeed is real i'm convinced that he smiles upon the LDS religion the most. I'm just trying to get on the winning side, really.

[pam]

You are totally missing my point. Totally. But I'll just let it go.

Not having a positive belief in God but wanting him to exist is not what I was finding contradictory.

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . I love LDS theology for the most part.. and if the Abrahamic God indeed is real i'm convinced that he smiles upon the LDS religion the most. I'm just trying to get on the winning side, really. . .

The God I know exists also knows your heart. I'm not sure he's into the "fake it til you make it" ideology.

[bmy-]

The God I know exists also knows your heart. I'm not sure he's into the "fake it til you make it" ideology.

All I can do is pray.. search.. and search some more. Just because I can't have faith.. (just how I am) should not disqualify me from being able to follow the commandments, raise a temple worthy family, and all the other awesome activities faithful followers get.. like salvation and stuff

You are totally missing my point. Totally. But I'll just let it go.

Not having a positive belief in God but wanting him to exist is not what I was finding contradictory.

You have misread my post.. I think you skipped over the "if". It completely changes the meaning of the post. I said that if I 'want' and try hard enough.. IF God is real then perhaps it will be enough for Him (it's all I can do after all..)

"I want Him to exist.. and if I 'want' and try hard enough.. perhaps that will be enough if He is in fact real."

Edited August 1, 2009 by bmy-

[Justice]

I like to think both sides should have some evidence.

That's the whole point... see what evidence there is that supports the view that God doesn't exist.

I'd like to see such a list.

[bmy-]

I like to think both sides should have some evidence.

That's the whole point... see what evidence there is that supports the view that God doesn't exist.

I'd like to see such a list.

What you missed is that.. the burden of proof is on the one who makes the positive claim. Proving a negative (while in some cases possible) is simply not worth the extraordinary amount of time and effort it would take.

So in a structured debate you would be the one who needs to 'prove' that God exists. As such.. you shifting the 'burden of proof' to those who do not share your view is a fallacy.

Edited August 1, 2009 by bmy-

[Moksha]

As a former member of the church. I would love to know how you know God exist? I used to be an active member but I realized that I only believed in God and was a member of the church because my parents were. Now that I think for myself and have chosen to find out for myself if whether God exists or not. I would be very much interested in hearing or reading about your thoughts. How did you find out God was real?

Gatsby, that is an admirable goal. It has always seemed to me that authentic beliefs are those you determine as being right for you. However, that does not work for everyone. As you know, many take comfort in the belief that the traditions they have been raised with are correct for them. While others like yourself have the flexibility and desire to seek another understanding. Knowing what you believe and why can be a helpful guide on your spiritual journey. You may want to understand the religious wisdom of the world to help find what resonates with you.

Grappling with the unknowable seems to me, to be a dead end. The entire realm of the metaphysical is beyond our ability to truly know. Making a bold leap of faith is what is required. Once you have realized that belief in and of itself can be desirable, you can more adequately determine if God can be real for you.

Have patience on that quest, because it will be lifelong. Once you have knowledge (which will be ever expanding) you will also seek for wisdom. Much wisdom can be found in religion and it provides an anchor and hope when things get tough.

:)

[Guest Godless]

Try imagining a mock trial in your mind. One side is trying to prove God exists and the other is trying to prove He doesn't. The trial that plays out in my mind is quite humorous to watch. It is evident to me the side trying to prove He doesn't exist has opinion only... absolutely nothing admissable as evidence in a court.

And yet many people who argue in favor of God's existence do so out of personal experience. "I've felt his presence in my life" "The Spirit confirmed it to me" And so forth. This is all very subjective and individualistic "evidence". I realize that there are many more arguments on the theist side of the debate, but it seems to me that the argument from personal experience is the one that is most often used.

[Justice]

What you missed is that.. the burden of proof is on the one who makes the positive claim. Proving a negative (while in some cases possible) is simply not worth the extraordinary amount of time and effort it would take.

So in a structured debate you would be the one who needs to 'prove' that God exists. As such.. you shifting the 'burden of proof' to those who do not share your view is a fallacy.

I think I understood your point. What I was asking was for you to step aside from the norm and see what evidence you can come up with that God doesn't exist. It's not an exercise in futility, even though I doubt you will come up with any evidence.

I think you will find it just as Godless says, all you will end up with is the most common argument the other side has, and that's that you just "think or feel" He does not exist. Once you realize there is no evidence to support the claim there is no God, the evidence that suggests there is a God becomes more believable... namely, what people feel. Because, if that's what you base one belief on, why can't you base the another belief on the same?

Together with feelings in favor of God, we have scriptures. Plus, we have very solid witnesses in the front of the Book of Mormon.

Testimony of Three Witnesses

Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Those witnesses stand up in any court.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Justice

[Moksha]

Gatsby, that is an admirable goal. It has always seemed to me that authentic beliefs are those you determine as being right for you. However, that does not work for everyone. As you know, many take comfort in the belief that the traditions they have been raised with are correct for them. While others like yourself have the flexibility and desire to seek another understanding. Knowing what you believe and why can be a helpful guide on your spiritual journey. You may want to understand the religious wisdom of the world to help find what resonates with you.

Grappling with the unknowable seems to me, to be a dead end. The entire realm of the metaphysical is beyond our ability to truly know. Making a bold leap of faith is what is required. Once you have realized that belief in and of itself can be desirable, you can more adequately determine if God can be real for you.

Have patience on that quest, because it will be lifelong. Once you have knowledge (which will be ever expanding) you will also seek for wisdom. Much wisdom can be found in religion and it provides an anchor and hope when things get tough.

:)

Okay Moksha, try following your own advice and learn something new today since you seem to think there is so much to learn. BTW, try working on wisdom too while your at it. Obviously you need a great deal of help.

[bmy-]

I think I understood your point. What I was asking was for you to step aside from the norm and see what evidence you can come up with that God doesn't exist. It's not an exercise in futility, even though I doubt you will come up with any evidence.

That's good. Prove to me that there isn't a dragon in my garage. Do you see why this exercise can get ridiculous?

I think you will find it just as Godless says, all you will end up with is the most common argument the other side has, and that's that you just "think or feel" He does not exist. Once you realize there is no evidence to support the claim there is no God, the evidence that suggests there is a God becomes more believable... namely, what people feel. Because, if that's what you base one belief on, why can't you base the another belief on the same?

Once you realize that there is no evidence to support the claim there is no God.. you rely on faith (used as: sure knowledge of something unseen). This is not always a bad thing in my opinion. I was simply correcting a poor argument.

Together with feelings in favor of God, we have scriptures. Plus, we have very solid witnesses in the front of the Book of Mormon.

Testimony of Three Witnesses

Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Those witnesses stand up in any court.

The witnesses are (or should be) considered the LDSs best weapons. Unfortunately.. they've all passed on.. and if one can consider old writings true -- why not writings about dragons, mermaids, or Atlantis?

I'm simply playing devils advocate here..

[dnc76v22]

Don't expect a vision like the one Joseph Smith had.

Why not?

Because if that's what it takes to know God exists and it doesn't happen does that mean God doesn't exists?

How many people do you know that have had that same kind of vision? I'm just saying don't expect it.

I would say, expect an answer, the Lord will take care of how and what manner He answers the prayer. :)

[pam]

I'm not going to disagree with that. But I still stand by my comment not to expect to receive a vision of the magnitude that Joseph Smith had.

[dnc76v22]

Why? Seriously?

Of the over 1,000,000,000 people that have ever lived, how many have had an experience like Joseph Smith?

Well, there was Enoch, Stephen,...... :)

[dnc76v22]

D&C 93:1

" Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass the every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am."

Go ahead and seek this Jesus and hope. There is much truth to place your hope in. But you will learn that there is a process to things.

One of my favorite scriptures. The Spirit told me it was true the first time I read it. :)

[jmcic]

better question how can you not see God everyday in the world around you it is out there in plain sight to see

[Traveler]

As a former member of the church. I would love to know how you know God exist? I used to be an active member but I realized that I only believed in God and was a member of the church because my parents were. Now that I think for myself and have chosen to find out for myself if wether God exists or not. I would be very much interested in hearing or reading about your thoughts. How did you find out God was real?

I am studying the scriptures and I hope I have a vision like the one Joseph Smith had because I would really like to know if all this is true. I would like to know if God really exists and since this church, is a really great church and plus, it has a modern-day prophet and it's not a paid ministry. I think I can find the answers here.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Occam’s razor would indicate the possibility that there is an intelligence more evolved than man’s that is capable of altering the environment on a universal scale as a possibility for bringing an order capable of life and that matter, energy and light are eternally conserved and can be utilized within the understanding that love and compassion (the greatest attributes of G-d) are engines of evolutionary enlightenment.

The Traveler