How Important Is Regular Church Attendance?

[Traveler]

Originally posted by bizabra@Jul 13 2005, 07:20 PM

The Traveler

Trav, not being part of a religious congragation says nothing about a persons ability to make and follow through committments. Ditt about getting along with others. If you recall, I did mention several groups that one could join up with to participate in service to our fellow man. I believe you are making the same fundamental mistake as those who claim that without religion, there is no basis for an ethical/ moral life.

I'm sorry but I have missed the basis of your moral ethical life void of religion. Perhaps you could direct me to the organization that is moral and not connected to religion in any way?

How about the ACLU, communism or perhaps a political party? I know - the US government's poverty programs. Perhaps the United Way. Not every humanitarian program associated with religion is a shining success but the one's void of religion do not impress me.

Here is an interesting side light about service. Many years ago I thought I would become a teacher. I thought I would specialize in teaching exceptional learners. The college I attended certified a lot of teachers, many which specialized in special learners (slow or problem learners). I was the only one that wanted to work with genius. I discovered that most teachers cannot even identify a motivated student from genius. Most (over 50%) of the estimated genius in the USA are never identified. My point in all this? Sometimes I think we go way out of our way to try to prove we are of service in society - perhaps too far in that we do not see or recognize the needs in the people we see everyday. Sometimes we forget about our own families while we are off to some social charity.

If you have to step out of your element to be of service you do not think of service religiously.

Thanks for your efforts.

The Traveler

[pushka]

Just thought I'd add something to what Bizabra was saying about it not being necessary to be a part of a religious organisation in order to serve your community well. I agree with her statement. There are many local community groups in my part of East Lancashire, which are not based on any religions. Some of the people who are members of these community groups are part of religious organisations but their involvement with the community groups does not require them to be a part of any religious organisation as well.

For instance, I am a part of LETS, which is a local trading scheme in which people share goods and skills with each other without having to pay for those goods or services/skills. People from all parts of the community are members of this scheme, if they wish to be, and benefit not only from being able to obtain goods they might not otherwise be able to afford, or have jobs done around their houses which they might not be able to afford to have done, they also benefit from forming new friendships and find that they are inspired to look inside themselves and recall their own skills and feel confident in using them to aid others. This is a completely non-religious trading scheme, and it is very successful.

I am also a member of Burnley Anarchists and we, via a web forum, flyers word of mouth, and by attending their meetings help other lobbying groups in our district which are fighting for such things as better working conditions for people who are casually employed either at home or by temping agencies, better housing and environmental issues amongst others. Again, we and the lobbying groups we support are totally non-religious based, however we feel that we are helping our communities and each other and are forming many new friendships. Our family members are included in our activities whenever they choose to be included, therefore we are not neglecting the needs of our families either...in fact we often have social get-togethers for the members and their families.

[Cal]

And don't forget, without going to church it would be hard for the Church to collect the tithing it needs to build the buildings we need to go to church in so that the church can collect tithing to build all the buildings that we need to go to church in so the church can collect tithing to build all the buildings we need to go to church in so the chuch can..........is anyone getting dizzy?

[pushka]

Yes MEEEEeeeeeeee!!!!!! STOPPIT I WANNA GET OFF!!!!!

[Ray]

Even though it’s a popular phrase, we don’t “go to church”, because the people are the church, and our Lord has said “it is expedient that the church (His church) meet together often to partake of bread and wine in the remembrance of the Lord Jesus (D&C 20:37)

Therefore, verily I say unto you, my friends, call your solemn assembly, as I have commanded you. And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith. Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God; that your incomings may be in the name of the Lord; that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord; that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High. (D&C 88:117-120)

Does everyone understand the significance of the reference to having uplifted hands?

The best reason for meeting together often, I think, is so that we can more easily find people who are with us instead of against us, and nowhere else on Earth can we find more people that are committed to following our Lord than in a house where we can all assemble to worship Him.

[Traveler]

One of the great paradoxes of existence is in understanding need and necessity. Most people have very limited scope and tend to focus on immediate need and necessity and ignore anything that may be of long term consequence. The question of this thread is if regular attendance at church is necessary? What does the word “regular” add to the question? Irregular and uncommitted involvement in anything is usually a sign of hypocrisy and insincerity though I am sure some of you could be the exception.

What is the advantage of someone that is irregular and uncommitted? For all the excuses offered, I find little or nothing I believe to be good for society, only excuses for personal egos. Should someone regularly attend their job? – yes if they expect to be paid and keep their job. Should someone regularly spend time with their spouse and children? – yes if they expect to foster a family relationship. Is it necessary to have regular sleep, food, exercise, friendship, justice or anything? Should we be regular in spiritual commitments? – yes if you expect familiarity with the divine.

The point my friends; is that if something is worth while, if it is a good thing in society it is best to apply such things with regularity. It is foolish to be irregular and uncommitted to worth while things. If it is not worth while it is silly to do even once, although not impossible to get away with. Just because something can be done for a short interval or because we can get away with something without the sky immediately falling – does not indicate that such things are unjustified or unnecessary in the long term.

If church is not worth regularity it has no worth what-so-ever. We are better off if we regularly are not involved with church. BTW - regular to me does not mean every time it is convenient or when there is nothing else to do. Regular means there is a priority. Personally I have greater respect for those that are committed to a worth while cause over those that think of cause in terms of personal convenience or ego.

The Traveler

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Ray@Aug 8 2005, 03:02 PM

The best reason for meeting together often, I think, is so that we can more easily find people who are with us instead of against us, and nowhere else on Earth can we find more people that are committed to following our Lord than in a house where we can all assemble to worship Him.

Funny thing, I was just talking to a friend about church meetings, and why I don't attend RS very often....and I really started thinking about why.....then I re-read this thread and find this sentence....

so that we can more easily find people who are with us instead of against us,

In the last ward I attended I had some sister come up to me and tell me that the lessons in Relief Society didn't apply to me because I was not married, and another who said she was sorry I wouldn't be able to attend RS dinner that month since it was for "couples". Oh, Oh, and my favorite..... my visiting teacher I never saw or heard from who came over and invited me for "girls night out" at the local bar with one of the other sisters in my Relief Society. "With Us" ? I've been pretty sour on attending RS for awhile now... I have more respect shown to me from the kids I work with.

But you know...that friend was right about something.... I need to go to RS for myself; to listen to what was being taught, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thought of me. I guess that's the whole point...it depends on what you think of yourself, and your purpose in life and your relationship with God.

Thanks my friend :)

[Guest K Anderson]

It is unfortunate that too many Latter-day Saints are willing to DIE for their religion, yet they will not LIVE FOR IT, is a concept I have created.

They will not go to church and there is one simple reason: PRIDE, which is the root of all universal sin with the love of money.

The question is: why won't they go to church?

Answer? Because they think they have already learned everything and cannot be helped more.

The will fall away and will not endure to the end. You can pick them out from the congregations. Tehy wil will become complacent and then they won't care anymore.

[Maureen]

Does not going to "church" effect someone's salvation? If a person can find fellowship and spiritual education from sources other than a church building and those specific church goers in that building, wouldn't that be just as helpful?

M.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Maureen@Aug 16 2005, 11:21 AM

Does not going to "church" effect someone's salvation? If a person can find fellowship and spiritual education from sources other than a church building and those specific church goers in that building, wouldn't that be just as helpful?

M.

I think that “wherever” someone finds the same type of fellowship and spiritual education they receive in a “church building”, they have found a place where they can enjoy the benefits of that church. And actually, they have simply found that church.

Remember, the church is the people, not the buildings.

And btw, that’s another one of the many things I really enjoy about our Church. No matter where we go, the “fellowship and spiritual education” we receive is pretty much the same…and we do and have done quite a bit of traveling.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Maureen@Aug 16 2005, 11:21 AM

Does not going to "church" effect someone's salvation? If a person can find fellowship and spiritual education from sources other than a church building and those specific church goers in that building, wouldn't that be just as helpful?

M.

Maureen~

I really tend to agree with you, I know there are other ways to keep yourself spiritually uplifted and educated if you can't attend church. When I was working every single weekend, and couldn't make it to any classes, much less sacrament meeting.... I knew that I needed to keep my self going and growing in my faith and my testimony. I read a lot of scriptures, joined a few message boards, and put the Church website on my favorites list....so I could keep up with, and listen to the Prophet when I could. When I was able to attend meetings...well, things happened, and I just went to Sacrament meetings for a long time. I attended all three classes this last Sunday....and it was very nice! There are still times that I have to work on Sundays....but I have my sources I draw from so I can keep that fire going :)

[Traveler]

Just a thought: I use to teach the HP group in our ward. I asked the members why they came to church. One member of the stake presidency that lived in our ward responded by saying "I come to be inspired and uplifted". So I asked "Then if you are not inspired and uplifted some week you will not come anymore?"

He was quite taken back by my question.

There is another member that has struggled with his membership. He had been excommunicated and was trying to get himself back together. I asked him why he came to church. He replied that he made a promise to G-d that he would do it and in turn hoped that G-d would help him with putting his life back together. BINGO

Regular attendance is a covenant between you and G-d. Who wants an agreement with anybody that does not feel a need for consistent commitment?

For those of you that do not feel that regular commitment is needed – I would really like to borrow $100,000.00 from you with the promise that I will pay it all back with interest and see if your really mean what you say or if you will expect a regular commitment.

The Traveler

[Lindy]

You know Trav~

Sometimes it's hard for anyone else to know the covenant that another person makes with God, and what bearing does that have on anyone else anyway? I don't think that anyone should look down on those that struggle with any kind of commitment period. Regular attendance, irregular attendance...if someone is trying to do what they can, when they can....why question their motives?

[Traveler]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Aug 16 2005, 05:20 PM

You know Trav~

Sometimes it's hard for anyone else to know the covenant that another person makes with God, and what bearing does that have on anyone else anyway? I don't think that anyone should look down on those that struggle with any kind of commitment period. Regular attendance, irregular attendance...if someone is trying to do what they can, when they can....why question their motives?

Indy: Do not think I am looking down on anybody about anything. I realize that everybody has their struggles. But what I am trying to get a cross is that we struggle simply because we struggle. Sometimes I step back from problems I cause my good wife and ask myself - why did I do that? The simple reason is because I let myself do it.

What I am trying to say is that it can be done - I know it can be done because I've done it and I am nobody great. I not the prophet, I'm not the bishop or the stake president, I a real regular person that is no better than anyone else - that is why I know it can be done. But more than just knowing it can be done - I also know that it is worth it.

Why? Well for one thing I have walked through the valley of death, I have held someone injured while they died - I been there when the world has fallen apart and I am thankful that I was taught commitment and been trained in understanding that what you regullarly do is who and what you really are. If you want to change yourself - change what you do on a regular basis. Where do people turn when there is real trouble? They turn to G-d - it's just better when you do in trouble what you have learned to do on a regular basis. But Indy I see you as a regular friend - not a sometime kind of friend - I'm quit sure you are very regular at what is important to you.

The Traveler

[Lindy]

But Indy I see you as a regular friend - not a sometime kind of friend - I'm quit sure you are very regular at what is important to you.

Right back at you Trav... and thanks for your input....as always...it means something. :)

Lindy

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Aug 16 2005, 08:06 PM

But Indy I see you as a regular friend - not a sometime kind of friend - I'm quit sure you are very regular at what is important to you.

Right back at you Trav... and thanks for your input....as always...it means something. :)

Lindy

LOL

Why does Traveler call you INDY? Does he know something WE don't know?

Traveler, you are right she is a friend on a regular basis.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Traveler@Aug 16 2005, 06:10 PM

Just a thought: I use to teach the HP group in our ward. I asked the members why they came to church. One member of the stake presidency that lived in our ward responded by saying "I come to be inspired and uplifted". So I asked "Then if you are not inspired and uplifted some week you will not come anymore?"

He was quite taken back by my question.

There is another member that has struggled with his membership. He had been excommunicated and was trying to get himself back together. I asked him why he came to church. He replied that he made a promise to G-d that he would do it and in turn hoped that G-d would help him with putting his life back together. BINGO

Regular attendance is a covenant between you and G-d. Who wants an agreement with anybody that does not feel a need for consistent commitment?

For those of you that do not feel that regular commitment is needed ¡¦I would really like to borrow $100,000.00 from you with the promise that I will pay it all back with interest and see if your really mean what you say or if you will expect a regular commitment.

The Traveler

Just a question.

Did we covenant with God to attend church every week?

I know that it is important to take the sacrament each week. Is that what you are referring to?

This may be very clear to every one else but I am in a bit of a fog lately.

[Outshined]

I think it's important to attend Church as often as possible just because of the influence in your life. Covenants aside, it just builds the spirit when we go to sacrament meeting. When I was in Iraq, I missed quite a few sacraments, as you might imagine, and I miss one a month for military duty.

I have always found that missing two or more in a row makes it a bit hard to go back; it's as if something is saying "Nah, just sleep in and don't worry about it". I have never regretted going to Church; I feel so much better when I get there.

It serves to 'recharge our batteries' in a way that we can rarely do on our own, I think, and helps us strengthen our testimonies and resolve to live better. Just my opinion.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Outshined@Aug 17 2005, 05:17 AM

I have never regretted going to Church; I feel so much better when I get there.

It serves to 'recharge our batteries' in a way that we can rarely do on our own, I think, and helps us strengthen our testimonies and resolve to live better. Just my opinion.

I would agree with you. There have been days when I have not felt especially well and stayed home...you would have thought that I was near being hospitalized by the end of the day. One the other hand if I had not felt well (I have an illness that makes me hurt and tired) and I have gone to church my day seems so much brighter. :)

[Traveler]

I hope no one takes offense or thinks that I am trying to force my ideals on anybody. But I have a personal covenant when it comes to Sunday worship. Often when I am involved in discussions of keeping the Sabbath holy I try to avoid the common do’s and don’t’s. The question I as is, what is your personal Sabbath covenant and do you keep your covenant?

I do not think everybody has to have the same Sabbath covenants that I do but it is my opinion that you cannot keep the Sabbath holy unless you have a covenant and honor that covenant. Personally I believe you ought to include worship attendance in your covenant. For example one of my covenants is to attend all meeting of the block to which the L-rd has provided opportunity. Sometimes it is difficult and I am tempted to break my covenant. When my nephew had his mission farewell several friends and family came to his sacrament meeting. After sacrament meeting most went to my brother’s house for an open house thing – I attended the other meetings and was accused of being anti-social.

Again our family was on vacation at Bear Lake. When we went to church there were so many visitors they asked that the visitors do not attend the other meetings and allow the local’s to attend because they could not accommodate the numbers visitors (it was like stake conference). In that case I do not feel any covenant was broken by not attending meeting not provided.

What I do not understand about some attitudes concerning covenants:

1. When others feel they must force their personal covenants on others.

2. When someone does not think they (or anyone else) should have personal covenants. Prove it by scripture attitude.

3. When someone makes light of other’s covenants.

If you have not considered making personal covenants - you might want to consider it. I suggest you try living by covenant - a line upon line upon line - concept upon concept upon concept - covenant upon covenant upon covenant - All according to your heart, might, mind and strength.

Let us learn to respect covenants and encourage anyone that has a personal covenant to be loyal to their covenant. If you do not covenant I am not sure you have much to offer. If you do and feel you ought – please share some of your thoughts.

The Traveler

[Ray]

I advise being very careful about what you covenant or promise to do, though, because you may make a promise you think is a good thing to promise and then find out later that what you promised isn’t a promise that God wanted you to make in the first place.

For instance, if you covenant to attend all your Church meetings, and then one day on the way to a Church meeting you come across someone who seriously needs help, our Lord may want you to help that person in need instead of attending your Church meeting, which you might not do simply because you have covenanted to attend all of your Church meetings.

And that’s why I think we should simply keep the covenants that God has asked us to make with Him, instead of making up other covenants on our own.

[Ray]

And btw, all covenants that God asks us to make with Him include the promise of a blessing for keeping those covenants, and I see no justification for expecting God to give us a blessing for keeping a covenant to which He has not offered a blessing. But I suppose we could still promise to do something without expectation of a blessing.

[Traveler]

Ray: Help me a little here. Are you LDS or what?

The Traveler

[Ray]

Originally posted by Traveler@Aug 17 2005, 04:46 PM

Ray: Help me a little here.  Are you LDS or what?

The Traveler

Yes, I am LDS. Why do you ask?

If you’re wondering how I answer the TR question concerning whether or not I attend all of my meetings, I usually say Yes with the understanding that that is what I usually do, and if something unusual came up I then shared my story with members of the bishopric and stake presidency, if I hadn’t done so already.

(I’m the Exec Sec in my ward so I usually talk with members of the bishopric and stake presidency regularly.)

And btw, next time, please just ask me to clarify something you don’t understand from what I said, because whether or not I am speaking the truth has nothing to do with whether or not I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... except that by having received the Holy Ghost, Who I was told to receive by some men with that authority, I now have access to His gift of truth, which I otherwise would not have received unless God so desired to bless me.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Ray+Aug 18 2005, 08:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Aug 18 2005, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Aug 17 2005, 04:46 PM

Ray: Help me a little here.  Are you LDS or what?

The Traveler

Yes, I am LDS. Why do you ask?

If you’re wondering how I answer the TR question concerning whether or not I attend all of my meetings, I usually say Yes with the understanding that that is what I usually do, and if something unusual came up I then shared my story with members of the bishopric and stake presidency, if I hadn’t done so already.

(I’m the Exec Sec in my ward so I usually talk with members of the bishopric and stake presidency regularly.)

And btw, next time, please just ask me to clarify something you don’t understand from what I said, because whether or not I am speaking the truth has nothing to do with whether or not I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... except that by having received the Holy Ghost, Who I was told to receive by some men with that authority, I now have access to His gift of truth, which I otherwise would not have received unless God so desired to bless me.

The reason I asked if you were LDS was not so much to judge you or what you were saying. I thought to persue some ideas with you but I was not sure how to go about it. You could call this a pre-assement to get an idea of where you are coming from.

Knowing that you are LDS does not change the truth but it does color a little how I might attempt to present some thoughts. I am also LDS. Unlike yourself I do not do well in presidency possitions (execitive secretary - bishiprics etc..) though for some reason I keep getting called to them. Maybe if I could get it right just once and pass the test I could be called to something I am more suited to do.

By profession I am an scientist and engineer so I am not known for my communication skills. Currently I work in the automation and robotics industry.

I have several non internet things I must take care of at this time. If I get them done I will come back tonight and add some thoughts. If not - later.

The Traveler