Non uniform belief? Why?

[Lstinthwrld]

I have participated in a few discussions on this forum so far. And as an outsider the only thing that seems clear is that with very few exceptions no two mormons believe the same thing about their religion. Having said that (and I am sure that most people will concentrate on this statement instead of the following question and what I hope will be the focus of this thread)

How if you can not decide a universal way to believe some of the core points in your own faith can you ever expect to be understood and not questioned by the outside world that may or may not be looking at mormonism with interest of joining but still have honest questions and curiosities?

[john doe]

I think it has to do with the fact that you're picking at loose threads from the outside trying to pull it apart and not actually looking at our core beliefs.

[Justice]

I think you will find we share the same core beliefs.

I have found people of other Christian religions don't even share the same core beliefs.

I know Catholics who believe very differently in the Trinity. You will find all LDS believe The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are separate personages.

I know Baptists who believe very differently in salvation.

Anyway, I'm getting away from what I wanted to say. We do have different beliefs about many things that non-members like to discuss. The reason is that those are usually the controversial topics. We interpret scripture a bit differently than each other, that's a fact. But, we all know the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. We are encouraged to read and seek answers on our own. That will lead people down different learning paths. But, eventually, we meet somewhere down the road.

[Moksha]

Perhaps we could distinguish the core principles of the Gospel by what we sometimes refer to as The Milk and our eccentricities by what could be referred to as The Meat. That way we could have Mormon vegans and carnivores, yet still be understood by the outside world.

.

[jadams_4040]

I have participated in a few discussions on this forum so far. And as an outsider the only thing that seems clear is that with very few exceptions no two mormons believe the same thing about their religion. Having said that (and I am sure that most people will concentrate on this statement instead of the following question and what I hope will be the focus of this thread)

How if you can not decide a universal way to believe some of the core points in your own faith can you ever expect to be understood and not questioned by the outside world that may or may not be looking at mormonism with interest of joining but still have honest questions and curiosities?

And excatly which core beleifs are you reffering to? actually we are the only religon on earth today that does beleive in the very same things to a tee! sometimes members might understand one or another issue a little differantly; but the facts always remain the same. universaly and in every l.d.s church, temple, manual, apostle, prophet,seventy,bishop,and on down the line. May i ask of you which faith you practice?

[lattelady]

Justice, it would seem as though LDS doctrine actually teaches that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not separate personages. 2 Nephi 26:12 says, "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the ETERNAL GOD." And 2 Nephi 11:7 "For if there be no Christ there be not God; af if there be not God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and HE IS CHRIST, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time."

[Kawazu]

I have participated in a few discussions on this forum so far. And as an outsider the only thing that seems clear is that with very few exceptions no two mormons believe the same thing about their religion. Having said that (and I am sure that most people will concentrate on this statement instead of the following question and what I hope will be the focus of this thread)

How if you can not decide a universal way to believe some of the core points in your own faith can you ever expect to be understood and not questioned by the outside world that may or may not be looking at mormonism with interest of joining but still have honest questions and curiosities?

Hello,

The discord is just a side effect of Internet forum atmosphere. A list of beliefs that unite LDS people are:

1.) Belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

2.) Baptism as a necessary covenant.

3.) A belief in the preexistence.

4.) Belief in the restored Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood.

5.) Temple ordinances are a necessity.

6.) Repentance is required.

7.) Our goal is to live with our Heavenly Father in His Celestial Kingdom of Glory.

8.) We agree that canonized scripture includes The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price...

...and so on. Mormons are not zombies. Mormonism does not take over a convert's delicious brain. We may hold various opinions on the politics of social issues, (especially in how they relate to Christ's Gospel), but on the central aspects of our Salvation, we agree.

Thank you.

Regards,

Kawazu

[Justice]

Justice, it would seem as though LDS doctrine actually teaches that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not separate personages. 2 Nephi 26:12 says, "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the ETERNAL GOD." And 2 Nephi 11:7 "For if there be no Christ there be not God; af if there be not God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and HE IS CHRIST, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time."

It makes perfect sense to me.

Words are odd, you know. Often they can have multiple meanings. You are applying your view and understanding of the Godhead into the words. I apply my understanding of the Godhead into the words and I get something entirely different than you do.

Once you know The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are One God, yet 3 distinct Personages, it becomes perfectly clear.

It's interesting that you would tell me what the Book of Mormon is trying to teach.

[Justice]

lattelady, I know you make no profession to seeking truth here on this forum, but may I remind you that you are on an LDS forum. By you telling us here that the Book of Mormon means something different than what we believe it does tells me you aren't very sincere about understanding what we believe.

People who are genuinely curious, and sincere, usually ask questions instead of telling people they misunderstand a book they have obviously studied far more than they have.

[lattelady]

Justice, why do you misquote me? Is that on purpose? I never said, "Attention: this is what the Book of Mormon is trying to teach." I said (it's quoted right in your post) "IT WOULD SEEM as though LDS doctring actually teaches that..." And as I read it at face value, that's what it reads. If your understanding tells you something else, that makes sense for you, but I'm making sense simply of what I read at face value. Why do you get defensive?

[Guest Believer_1829]

lattelady, I know you make no profession to seeking truth here on this forum, but may I remind you that you are on an LDS forum. By you telling us here that the Book of Mormon means something different than what we believe it does tells me you aren't very sincere about understanding what we believe.

People who are genuinely curious, and sincere, usually ask questions instead of telling people they misunderstand a book they have obviously studied far more than they have.

Why does her quoting the Book of Mormon make you so hostile?

The truth is the Book of Mormon leaves open just as much latitude on the issue of the nature of the Godhead as the Bible does.

[Justice]

Justice, it would seem as though LDS doctrine actually teaches that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not separate personages.

She didn't "just" quote the Book of Mormon, she stated it disagrees with LDS doctrine, as if she's the authortiy.

I am not hostile. I'm just pointing out that it's not a good practice to come to an LDS forum and tell people that LDS doctrine disagrees with the Book of Mormon.

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

We have basic beliefs that make our religion strong. You wont find any true mormon who dont believe them.. this basic beliefs are the important ones for our salvation.. we might have different opinions on other irrelevant things for the eternal salvation, and such differences are not stated as doctrine so that does NOT matter. what matter is official doctrine.

It's normal and common within a religion to have differences between members, in catholicism some people say that celibacy is not important, some say it is, in some evangelical churches there are some members that think works do not really matter and some others believe by works and grace is salvation earned.. etc.

[Guest Believer_1829]

She didn't "just" quote the Book of Mormon, she stated it disagrees with LDS doctrine, as if she's the authortiy.

I am not hostile. I'm just pointing out that it's not a good practice to come to an LDS forum and tell people that LDS doctrine disagrees with the Book of Mormon.

Where? She merely stated (in not so many words) that if the Book of Mormon is to be used as a basis for understanding LDS doctrine it could be construed to relay a belief in the "Trinity".

You TOOK it as her saying they disagree.

Do I need to repost Elder Ballard's remarks on not being defensive again?

[Lstinthwrld]

Wow I go to give my daughter a bath and we are already on the second page. Awesome!

Let me elaborate a little.

1 Was HF originally a man who Attained deification? If so he had a God he worshiped (and by implication still does? Does this open a door for a polytheistic/henotheistic debate? (I have talked to mormons off of the internet who admit yes this does and those who deny god ever had a god. So it runs the gamut.

2 Doctrine vs scripture. They don't always jive and neither do the individual opinions about them and I have noticed that there seems to be a huge debate over a lot of what the prophets have said through history and how do you know if it to be taken as doctrine or just individual opinion.

3 A lot of the core beliefs/doctrines aren't scriptural So are they in fact true or just someones opinion of what should be practiced. How do you know the difference? Even Joseph Smith is questioned on this (I.E. the king follet discourse as a example.)

These are just a few examples of what I mean.

[lattelady]

Justice, in the future, maybe you could just explain to me what the interpretation of that Scripture is (especially if the Church has an official stance on how that Scripture is interpreted)--the way I saw it was simply the way I read it. When compared to your statement about three personages, I didn't see how that meshed. You can just explain that to me, though, without the anger. I've been attacked more times on this forum than I can count--and I am in NO way attacking or belittling your faith.

[Lstinthwrld]

I think it has to do with the fact that you're picking at loose threads from the outside trying to pull it apart and not actually looking at our core beliefs.

Not true I have weekly meetings with missionaries and other local LDS church members and my best friends father was one of your GA's. So please do not make assumptions.

[Lstinthwrld]

And excatly which core beleifs are you reffering to? actually we are the only religon on earth today that does beleive in the very same things to a tee! sometimes members might understand one or another issue a little differantly; but the facts always remain the same. universaly and in every l.d.s church, temple, manual, apostle, prophet,seventy,bishop,and on down the line. May i ask of you which faith you practice?

I adhere to the Taoist philosophy/belief more than any other. At the core it is agnostic...but with room to learn. I hope that makes sense.

[Lstinthwrld]

lattelady, I know you make no profession to seeking truth here on this forum, but may I remind you that you are on an LDS forum. By you telling us here that the Book of Mormon means something different than what we believe it does tells me you aren't very sincere about understanding what we believe.

People who are genuinely curious, and sincere, usually ask questions instead of telling people they misunderstand a book they have obviously studied far more than they have.

But see this is my point. how do you know that your way is the right one to believe. and I assume that by we you refer all LDS. How do you know that everyone believes your view.

[Justice]

Justice, in the future, maybe you could just explain to me what the interpretation of that Scripture is (especially if the Church has an official stance on how that Scripture is interpreted)--the way I saw it was simply the way I read it. When compared to your statement about three personages, I didn't see how that meshed. You can just explain that to me, though, without the anger. I've been attacked more times on this forum than I can count--and I am in NO way attacking or belittling your faith.

There was no question in your post. When you make statements, not questions, about LDS doctrine not agreeing with the Book of Mormon, not only does it look like you are pointing out flaws, but doing so without ever even studying the Book of Mormon. I was never angry, just frustrated.

I make every attempt to try to be fair and to try to read people's posts with as much understanding as possible. You can go back over a year and check for yourself. I do apologize, I did not get a question or even curiosity from your post. Nor have I had the impression of genuine curiosity from many of your posts.

I will try harder.

[lattelady]

Does Lds.net only want LDS people on this forum? If we're not members, do you just want us to read members' posts, but not comment? If this site is strictly for the LDS, I just wasn't aware; if we're not suppose to comment, I wasn't aware.

[lattelady]

You probably shouldn't suggest that I've never studied the Book of Mormon, since you and I are strangers to one another. I didn't ask a question in my post, rather I made a comment that the Book of Mormon seemed to argue the statement you made. I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with other's challenges. I wasn't being rude or offensive. My posts typically demonstrate a genuine confusion that I have with the teachings and contradictions I find with the teachings at times.

[Lstinthwrld]

Does Lds.net only want LDS people on this forum? If we're not members, do you just want us to read members' posts, but not comment? If this site is strictly for the LDS, I just wasn't aware; if we're not suppose to comment, I wasn't aware.

I can understand being frustrated but you know that's not the case. Other wise they would have banned me by now and sent the Danites after me:D

[Justice]

But see this is my point. how do you know that your way is the right one to believe.

It is commonly taught in our Church, even to all investigators, that anyone can know for themselves if the Book of Mormon is true. The invitation is simple. Read it with a genuine curiosity to know if it's true. Pray about it sincerely. We believe the truth of the Book of Mormon will be made known to all honest seekers by the power of the Holy Ghost.

You will not be baptized into the LDS Church if you do not believe the Book of Mormon is true. The rest of the truths hinge on that fact, even that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

and I assume that by we you refer all LDS. How do you know that everyone believes your view.

There are some pretty basic beliefs we all share by virtue of what we believe.

1) The Book of Mormon is true.

that means Joseph Smith was a prophet.

that means The Father and The Son appeared to him.

that means they are separate beings.

that means...

See how it goes? All you need to know that it's true is that the Book of Mormon is inspired scripture.

[bytor2112]

But see this is my point. how do you know that your way is the right one to believe. and I assume that by we you refer all LDS. How do you know that everyone believes your view.

Mormonism seems to the outsider a confusing, contradictory, convoluted mess. What is most difficult to explain is WHY we are part of this faith. If in the end we all just want to sleep better at night and feel that there is life after death.

The answer is simple for me and most all faithful Saints......our understanding, our beliefs come from Spiritual experience. The Holy Ghost bears witness of the truthfulness of this work and also of deeper, more difficult doctrines. The things of God are only understood by the power of the Holy Spirit......without it, without this experience that you will find common with Latter Day Saints.....it would all be just an exercise in rhetoric.

I am a Latter Day Saint because of the Holy Spirit. I attended a Pentecostal Church as a child, was baptized in a Southern Baptist church as a young teen and became an atheist/agnostic later. The Book of Mormon didn't convince me......it was the Spiritual experiences........it was and continues to be the Holy Spirit.