Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Actually satan can go where anyone who is unworthy goes... Someone holding a recommend who isn't worthy can and has indeed brought satan into the temple with him. Satan can and does give personal revelation... it just isn't acompanied by light/peace/love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Explain or define --truly ignorant-- through something besides attacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Actually satan can go where anyone who is unworthy goes... Someone holding a recommend who isn't worthy can and has indeed brought satan into the temple with him.Satan can and does give personal revelation... it just isn't acompanied by light/peace/love.satan can not give "personal revelation" as it is typically defined in standard church uses. he can give us thoughts and ideas (personal revelation does sometimes come in that form as well) which is how he attempts to confuse us. but for me (and as i've seen it typically used) personal revelation is communication to a person from god that is specifically for/to them about their stewardship. satan is not god and is by default excluded from that. if by personal revelation you broaden the definition to just mean thoughts that are influenced from somewhere other than yourself then i will concede that we are both right. lolsatan can not enter the temple. just as i have been given the gift of the holy ghost does not mean that i will always have the holy ghosts presence with me. i can choose to go somewhere that he is bound and he will leave. i can choose not to listen or engage in sinful activities that will cause him to withdraw from me. if one has chosen to keep company with satan it will work the same, does not mean they will always have that presence with them (won't have the spirit either). we have been told that satan can not be in the presence of light. the temple is god's house. he can not enter the temple. if someone enters the temple unworthily they will not have the spirit with them while in the temple but they can not "bring satan in". they can not disrupt my ability to have the spirit with me while i'm in the temple. if someone is so "involved" with satan that they have the ability to disrupt the spirit (i've only heard of one such story and i have no way of verifying the truth of it so i will not repeat it) then it will be made known to those in charge and they will be asked to leave. but the reality is that one would have to be doing something very bad to be able to cause such a disturbance. in the end they usually just condemn themselves in the stillness of the session and no one in the room is the wiser. god will balance it all out in the end. Edited September 8, 2009 by Gwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'm sorry if I have upset you Gwen. I didn't know samantics were going to be an issue. Yes Satan does give us thoughts as the Holy Ghost. Some will take this as personal revelation because they were not at the moment worthy to discern. I don't believe we are actually at odds on this one. I have both witnessed Christ and Satan in the temple. I have experienced the Lord audiably speaking to me which has left me filled with love/peace/power and I have had Satan call my name out in a voice sounding like rushing waters and I could discern its source because it was empty-- it left no peace or power and it didn't come filled with love... it was cold and empty. All within the temple walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverafter Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Thank you for your comments Grandma. Yes, it is true that Satan can influence us in the temple, by thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas, etc. All of which can be considered revelation, but from the wrong source of course. One of the things many members don't realize is how easy it is to be deceived & that the Prophets have warned that most members will be these days. Satan is usually the 1st one to answer our prayers when we are praying about something & his inspiration always sounds good to us & what we really want to hear. So we can easily fall for it & consider it from the right Spirit. Whereas, Heavenly Father usually tells us things we don't want to hear, that take alot of faith & sacrifice to follow. The Adversary can mimick every feeling & emotion, except 'peace'. But the unrighteous have lost their 'peace' & are living in a world of emotion, but don't realize it & they think they still have the spirit & so that is where the Adversary tricks them. Most wicked people think they are righteous or right. So whatever bad Spirit they are used to listening to they assume is a good spirit. Adulterers & Abusers hardly ever think they are such, until repentance finally comes upon them & they can't believe they were so deceived & blinded. Just as the Savior said, they truely do not know what they do. But they are accountable for letting theirselves get to such a point & lose the right Spirit & thus they are accountable for all they do while so deceived. If they carry that bad spirit that possesses them, into the temple, then yes, that same spirit can still give them revelation, which is any spirit, good or bad, communicating with ours & it can come in any form of communication. The wicked & those possessed of the Adversary seem to easily get into the temple unfortunately, usually undetected & they don't lose that bad spirit & their ability to hear the wrong spirit just because they walk in the doors. Believing that we can't be deceived in the temple is exactly why so many people are. I have known of many people over the years who say that they were told in the temple by the 'Spirit' to abuse or commit adultery or abandon their children & good & faithful spouses. Now they didn't see their actions as abuse, adultery or abandonment, but it clearly was, & if you compare it to what the Prophets teach you see that it is. That is our key, to always compare our revelation & inspiration with what the Presidents of the Church have said, for it will never differ, if it does than we know it is from the wrong spirit. That's our golden key. That is how we can be sure & safe. This is taught over & over by Church leaders. The Spirit will never tell us anything that is not in harmony with what the Presidents of the Church have said. But again, the Adversary is very successful in getting many to believe that they are the exception to this rule. Edited September 8, 2009 by foreverafter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Satan is usually the 1st one to answer our prayers when we are praying about something Satan answers prayers when we are praying to Heavenly Father? I think I understand what you are saying here...but again..if I take a statement point blank.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 You have made several great points Foreverafter! Pure knowledge comes through Christ alone-- otherwise one can receive knowledge--but it can vanish away or cause us to, (spiritually speaking). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverafter Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Satan answers prayers when we are praying to Heavenly Father?Yes, he is usually 1st on the scene to try to decieve us when we are in need of help & guidance. In fact, we are rarely left alone from being continually bombarded with the enticings of Satan. Heavenly Father allows him to, to see if we will be able to discern his falsehoods & instead follow the inspirations from the right Spirit, which usually comes after being tested by the wrong Spirit. Edited September 8, 2009 by foreverafter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 As Pres. Packer said a few months back, "Everyone knows when they do wrong." Foreverafter do you remember when or where this was said? I have been searching to try and find a talk etc on this so that I can see in what context this could be taken on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverafter Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Pam, He said it in the last Regional Conference held & televised for most, if not all, of Utah Valley & maybe other parts too. I immediately wrote it down when he said it. I'm not sure where you can find a transcript of that conference. It was back in the Spring though. Maybe check the Church News to see if they reported on that conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 So is it fair to say that perhaps President Packer's comments weren't necessarily on the subject of divorce but on something else or meant in a generalized way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverafter Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 So is it fair to say that perhaps President Packer's comments weren't necessarily on the subject of divorce but on something else or meant in a generalized way?Yes Pam, his comments were not on the subject of divorce & he mean't that in a generalized way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 gwen: You're right about women also being abusers in bad relationships. I'm not so concerned about being politically correct; all of the cases of justified divorce I have personally seen are cases in which the man neglects his role as husband/father. Thank you for pointing that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Grandmakabipbip: So... The Lord allows Satan to tempt one who is worthy to hear Christ's voice when said person is inside the temple walls? I thought temples were bastions of spiritual safety for the righteous; being dedicated houses of the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverafter Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 gwen: You're right about women also being abusers in bad relationships. .I agree. Women can be & often are very abusive. It seems like men in general are getting better & less abusive & women are getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Yes Pam, his comments were not on the subject of divorce & he mean't that in a generalized way. So then basically what we are doing is taking a GA's generalized comment and using that to form an opinion on divorce and posting said opinion on a forum.That is exactly what it becomes then. An opinion. If the General Authority didn't specifically mention divorce in his comment then how are we to know that he feels this also applies to people who are involved in a divorce situation?It's not doctrine..it's the opinion of a person. Perhaps if you started quoting GA's and provided references to those comments on the actual subject of divorce..it might hold more credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Grandmakabipbip:So... The Lord allows Satan to tempt one who is worthy to hear Christ's voice when said person is inside the temple walls? I thought temples were bastions of spiritual safety for the righteous; being dedicated houses of the Lord. I always thought this too Max. I found a comment by Elder Lance B. Wickman mentioned in an October 1994 general conference address that states:More than once they repeat the command to “stand in holy places” for a refuge from these storms of latter-day life (D&C 45:32; see also D&C 87:8; D&C 101:16–23). Prominent among such holy places, and key to all the others, is the temple of the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I was not tempted... I was tested. Safety is within each one of us... if we are not safe in our own bodily temples... (due to the Holy Ghost being with us) no edifice will save us.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I would think most understand that our bodies are also temples. If we have the Holy Ghost within us, we are safe no matter where we are. As for the temples-- if we are not worthy while in the temple it isn't any safer than if we were outside it. and if we are worthy we are just as safe within its walls as outside them... Safety is within. Temples are a refuge fromt he world, but not necessarily from being tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Grandmakabipbip:So... The Lord allows Satan to tempt one who is worthy to hear Christ's voice when said person is inside the temple walls? I thought temples were bastions of spiritual safety for the righteous; being dedicated houses of the Lord.Here's my thoughts on this. Temples are dedicated structures and kept as clean as possible (I'm talking morally and spiritually clean). However, those who enter are not perfect and not always clean. Any temptations in the temple are because we are mortal. I do not believe that every time we have a bad thought or wrong action, it is a direct result of Satan (or one of his minions) tempting us at that moment. I think oftentimes it is because we are fallen and mortal--and have allowed Satan to tempt us prior.I've had some not so good thoughts while in the temple. I do not think Satan was sitting on my shoulder ready to point out a bad thought. I think I allowed my mind to wander which allows other thoughts to enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Grandmakabipbip- So... You were allowed to hear the voice of Satan to see if you would respond to his call...? I could accept such an account (after all it happened to Moses)- but I'm weary that you're sharing this very personal experience on an internet forum. Also, what's the difference between being tested and being tempted? You've piqued my curiosity. Edited September 8, 2009 by Maxel Clarifying who my comments were addressed to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Also, what's the difference between being tested and being tempted? You've piqued my curiosity. I was just going to ask that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 So then basically what we are doing is taking a GA's generalized comment and using that to form an opinion on divorce and posting said opinion on a forum.That is exactly what it becomes then. An opinion. If the General Authority didn't specifically mention divorce in his comment then how are we to know that he feels this also applies to people who are involved in a divorce situation?It's not doctrine..it's the opinion of a person. Perhaps if you started quoting GA's and provided references to those comments on the actual subject of divorce..it might hold more credibility.I think we have been repeatedly told that Stake and Regional conferences in which GAs speak are not considered as doctrine for the church. To repeat/record them for the purpose of posting or reprinting is disallowed. That doesn't mean we cannot learn from it. We can. It also doesn't mean they never teach doctrine at these conferences--they do. But for someone to take one statement from a regional conference, apply it to another subject, then "teach" it as doctrine from a GA is not only wrong--it's dangerous. That is teaching false doctrine or priestcraft. To avoid the appearance of evil, it is recommended that we state when something is our opinion as we understand the prophets or scripture and use references when stating it it more than just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmakabipbip Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I am condemned if I do and comdemned if I don't. I made a statement and backed it up with references. the last time I didn't-- one as astute as yourself called me on it. Tested and tempted-- depends upon how good you are. Consider Job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Satan can and will go anywhere there is someone that will accept his influence. If he had no influence in the temple the lockers would not need keys. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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