Do "Born again" Churches Seriously Believe This?!

[ozzy]

Thanks for your further clarification pc. I do understand where you are coming from. I think that the key difference is whether we consider it to be literal or symbolic, as well as how we view the defining of terms, and lastly whether or not we believe the BoM, D&C, or Pearl of Great Price.

I won't proceed to argue my point because in my personal experience, and what seems to be a trend on this whole website, that doesn't get anywhere. :)

[Vanhin]

This might help on the LDS perspective.

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES

HELL

See also Damnation; Death, Spiritual; Devil; Sons of Perdition

Latter-day revelation speaks of hell in at least two senses. First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, hell has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76: 81-86; 88: 100-101).

Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, hell is permanent. It is for those who are found “filthy still” (D&C 88: 35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76: 43-46).

The scriptures sometimes refer to hell as outer darkness.

David’s soul shall not be left in hell, Ps. 16: 10 (Ps. 86: 13). Go into hell, into that fire that never shall be quenched, Mark 9: 43 (Mosiah 2: 38). The rich man in hell lifts up his eyes, being in torment, Luke 16: 22-23 (D&C 104: 18). Death and hell delivered up the dead, Rev. 20: 13. There is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell, 1 Ne. 15: 35. The will of the flesh giveth the spirit of the devil power to bring us down to hell, 2 Ne. 2: 29. Christ prepared the way for our deliverance from death and hell, 2 Ne. 9: 10-12. Those who remain filthy go into everlasting torment, 2 Ne. 9: 16. The devil cheateth their souls and leadeth them away carefully down to hell, 2 Ne. 28: 21. Jesus hath redeemed my soul from hell, 2 Ne. 33: 6. Loose yourselves from the pains of hell, Jacob 3: 11. To be taken captive by the devil and led by his will to destruction are the chains of hell, Alma 12: 11. The wicked are cast into outer darkness until the time of their resurrection, Alma 40: 13-14. The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. 9: 4. The punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, D&C 19: 10-12. Hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels, D&C 29: 37-38. Those who acknowledge God are delivered from death and the chains of hell, D&C 138: 23. (Guide to the Scriptures: Hell)

Regards,

Vanhin

[prisonchaplain]

Thanks for your further clarification pc. I do understand where you are coming from. I think that the key difference is whether we consider it to be literal or symbolic, as well as how we view the defining of terms, and lastly whether or not we believe the BoM, D&C, or Pearl of Great Price.

I won't proceed to argue my point because in my personal experience, and what seems to be a trend on this whole website, that doesn't get anywhere. :)

The bolded part is probably key. Those writings have teachings that, if true, require something other than a simple and literal understanding of Jesus' passages about hell. Thank you for you explanations.

[bytebear]

I don't believe Heavenly Father created Hell, nor did he create good and evil. They are simply things that are. Satan was not created evil. But he became evil by his choices. Hell is not a place God puts bad people, it is a state of being that people place them themselves in.

[Texaspride]

I do sincerely believe in what He says and I don't believe I'm listening to teachers who are teaching false truths. BTW, who do you think these teachers might be? Please tell me so that I know to avoid them. Thanks.:)

Hey Carl. I would believe any one who changes the teachings of Jesus Christ to be a false teacher. So the best way to go about it, is to read and meditate on what He taught in the four gospels, Matthew,Mark,Luke and John. And than when you see another teaching that contradicts what He taught. You should be able to recognize it. Bankers and many people who work with money study out REAL 100 dollar bills. Than when they see a counterfeit come by they can see the difference. So I would just encourage you to study out the Lord's teachings earnestly. Their have been many false teachers since His death and resurection. Even Paul had people trying to counterfeit his epistles. Hope this answers your question. May God Bless You On Your Journey

[Texaspride]

I don't believe Heavenly Father created Hell, nor did he create good and evil. They are simply things that are. Satan was not created evil. But he became evil by his choices. Hell is not a place God puts bad people, it is a state of being that people place them themselves in.

Hello Friend. Jesus mentions it often. While it may be a difficult thing to speak of, it is truth. Have you ever seen a book called, "23 minutes in Hell"? A man passes away and ends up their. His experience is amazing. Nevertheless he is know a Christian. Their have been many people who have died and came back and have seen Hell. It is a real place. Check Youtube for a video called, "A letter from hell" Also try to a documerntry called, "To Hell and back". To hell and back is a great documentry. It may be a little upsetting but it is also a eye opener on the dangers of sin. Jesus took it seriousely. Look at the Cross. That is seriouse. We must make repentance real in our lives. God Bless you on your journey!

[pam]

TexasPride just so you are aware. LDS do not believe in a hell such as many other Christians believe with fire and brimstone and all that. Here is our definition of hell:

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Since we believe in 3 levels of Glory...as bytebear mentioned in his post..we believe that many who are assigned to one of the lower levels will live in their own personal hell knowing what they have missed out on.

.

[Texaspride]

TexasPride just so you are aware. LDS do not believe in a hell such as many other Christians believe with fire and brimstone and all that. Here is our definition of hell:

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Since we believe in 3 levels of Glory...as bytebear mentioned in his post..we believe that many who are assigned to one of the lower levels will live in their own personal hell knowing what they have missed out on.

.

Hello Pam. Some of our believes our similiar on this subject. I would also see it as a "prison", a permanent place for satan and his followers. Here a few scriptures I decided to put in here to maybe help you understand why I believe the way I do on it. Some of our differences in belief is the 3 degrees of glory. Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that unless you repent, you will perish. He was meaning that for all people. The Lord's teachings leaves us all guilty of sin. I dont know any who can read through the 10 commandments, and than read the Lord spiritualize them in the sermon on the mount, Matthew 5,6,7 and than can honestly say, " I have never sinned". We are all in need of a Saviour. And just because some one elses sin may be worse than ours it dosent make our smaller ones ok. if we have ever stolen a pencil, we are looked at as a thief. If we've ever looked with lust, we are considered an adulturer, if weve ever hated we are looked at as a murderer. The Lord looks upon the heart, and that is why He says what He says in Luke 13:3. It helps us to be humble and less judgmental when we view ourselves in the Light of God's Holiness. He is perfect. All this can seem overwhelming and tend to leave us feeling hopeless. And we without God we are. Remember when the disciples asked the Lord who can be saved? Jesus said, with man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. So if we have been forgiven we will know it. Than doubt and trembling will leave because we have been truly adopted into His sheep pen. He is so faithfull, and the Bible is clear that He is not will that any perish. He loves us to much. Sorry to write so much I just had some extra time while the kids were doing homework. LOL..

Many Blessings.

Matt 5:22

But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says,'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

NKJV

Matt 5:29-30

If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

NKJV

Matt 10:28

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

NKJV

Matt 18:9

9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

NKJV

Matt 23:15

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves

NKJV

Matt 23:33

Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

NKJV

Luke 12:5

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

NKJV

Pray for the people of Haiti. Huge earthquake hit a major city. 7.0 magnitude.

Matt 3:10

nd even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

NKJV

Matt 3:12

His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

NKJV

Matt 7:19

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

NKJV

Matt 13:40

Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age

NKJV

Matt 13:42-43

and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

NKJV

Matt 13:50

and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth

NKJV

Matt 25:41-42

Then He will also say to those on the left hand,'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

NKJV

[pam]

Thank you for your explanation. As you have quite a bit here, it will take me some time to formulate a response. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post.

[Texaspride]

Thank you for your explanation. As you have quite a bit here, it will take me some time to formulate a response. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post.

LOL, my bad. It was just nice to be able to get a thought across with out my 5 year old hitting me in the head with a flying football. My kids are crazy!!!!!

[pam]

LOL not crazy.. Just being a 5 year old.

[striving]

Hi all! I'm new here. Before becoming LDS I attended a non-denominational Bible church. I was always confused by this very subject. A few of the other posters have repeted the same answers I have heard before. I have never understood something though, but have never had enough guts to ask about it. Some on here have said that our world testifies of Gods power and goodness, and that God will make himself known (paraphrasing) through His creation. So then can someone be "saved" just by recognizing that there must be a God? Or, if like Prison Chaplin said, can God decide after someone dies? Wouldn't that still mean they were saved even though they never recognized their need for a Savior?

If so, wouldn't that mean that there may be many who are saved WITHOUT a knowledge of Christ? There are billions of people who have lived that have never even heard of Jesus. To me, it seems like there are two options (according to Evengelical belief)

1) Every soul who does not accept Jesus as their Savior is condemed to Hell. This includes EVERY person who has not heard of Christ.

2) God judges according what one would have done had that person had the opportunity to learn of Jesus. This means there will be some in heaven who never heard of Jesus in this life.

Can someone explain to me which is the belief of most evangelicals? Thank you and I look foreward to chatting with you all more!!!

Edited January 13, 2010 by striving

[prisonchaplain]

Striving, you summed up the two major positions nicely. I think you'll find a significant following for both views. My sense is that more and more are going towards option 2. It is the humbler choice, because it says that God is the ultimate judge, and we simply do not have to know with certainty what any other person's eternal destiny is. So we evangelize and missionize as if the first answer is true, but we are humble in our conversations, as the second one suggests.

[striving]

Thanks Prison Chaplain! I would always feel so discouraged when I was in small group Bible studies in my former church. It always seemed as if someone was lamenting over a loved one who wasn't "saved", and they always seemed so certain that they KNEW that persons eternal destiny (and their own). I am happy to hear that not all evangelicals take such a hardline stance.

[Texaspride]

Hi all! I'm new here. Before becoming LDS I attended a non-denominational Bible church. I was always confused by this very subject. A few of the other posters have repeted the same answers I have heard before. I have never understood something though, but have never had enough guts to ask about it. Some on here have said that our world testifies of Gods power and goodness, and that God will make himself known (paraphrasing) through His creation. So then can someone be "saved" just by recognizing that there must be a God? Or, if like Prison Chaplin said, can God decide after someone dies? Wouldn't that still mean they were saved even though they never recognized their need for a Savior?

If so, wouldn't that mean that there may be many who are saved WITHOUT a knowledge of Christ? There are billions of people who have lived that have never even heard of Jesus. To me, it seems like there are two options (according to Evengelical belief)

1) Every soul who does not accept Jesus as their Savior is condemed to Hell. This includes EVERY person who has not heard of Christ.

2) God judges according what one would have done had that person had the opportunity to learn of Jesus. This means there will be some in heaven who never heard of Jesus in this life.

Can someone explain to me which is the belief of most evangelicals? Thank you and I look foreward to chatting with you all more!!!

Hello.

Let's keep our focus on God is a Just Judge. and than look at this again. As far as option #1

Rom 2:12-16

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

NKJV

I believe this scripture shows God's fair justice on those who have never had a chance to hear the good news, (Gospel) Our conscience bears witness with God's laws. That is why non believers who commit sin, murder,adultery,etc tend to feel guilty. Their conscience bears witness. But if one has never heard they still have a conscience. I believe if one continues to sin outwardly they can sear the conscience as with a hot iron and no longer feel this gult. But they are still guilty. So I believe their can be some who never heard the Gospel in Heaven yes. But I believe those who hear it will be judged according to how they received it. Either they repented or they didnt. Either they turned from sin and were Born Again or they werent. The reason we must be Born Again as Jesus told Nicodemus is that our righteousness is not enough.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing,

And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;

NKJV

Look at this scripture in Romans 10

Rom 10:1-4

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

NKJV

If we are counting on our own righteousness we will never make it. We must be clothed with the righteousness of God. And this is what takes place when we are Born Again of the Spirit. His Spirit gives us the ability to live the Christian life.

God is just in all His judgements.

And He sent the Holy Spirit on the earth to do this,

John 16:7-9

Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin,

NKJV

I think this covers #2 as well. Let me know if this answers your question.

Many Blessings.

[striving]

Thanks for the reply Texas Pride! So then you are agreeing with Prison Chaplain in saying that there may be people in Heaven who have not heard the Gospel here on earth?

Do you think (as LDS do) that there will be a period of education or learning after death for those who have not heard the Gospel here on earth, so that they can learn of Jesus? Or are you saying that they can be saved without accepting Jesus because they have listened to their conscience? I know there are people of many faiths (picture a Bhuddist) who may respond to thier conscience, but never know of Jesus.

It seems like if those who do not have the Law are not judged according to the Law, then they don't need Christ? But the Bible says He is the ONLY way to the Father.

[prisonchaplain]

Thanks Prison Chaplain! I would always feel so discouraged when I was in small group Bible studies in my former church. It always seemed as if someone was lamenting over a loved one who wasn't "saved", and they always seemed so certain that they KNEW that persons eternal destiny (and their own). I am happy to hear that not all evangelicals take such a hardline stance.

IMHO, while it would never be wise to speak with certainty about the deceased (especially if it's suspected they are in hell), when someone is living, and has knowledge of the Savior--that is, they've heard and apprehended the Gospel, then it is reasonable to pray with compassion and heartfelt concern. I have loved ones myself that I suspect are not saved. I do fear for their souls. But, ultimately, thankfully, yes God is the judge. Mine is to offer them the hope of heaven, and yet to be clear about the alternative as well.

[bytebear]

The problem I have with the literal interpretation of Hell is that it doesn't jive historically. Here is what Wikipedia says about the term "hell"

Hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Hebrew word Gehenna. These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized. Tartarus occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4 and is translated as a place of incarceration of demons. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife. Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead", or in other words, the grave. Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[9] Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.

So we have three usages, all of which seem to me to be more in tune with LDS belief. And if we take the usage as metaphor, then even more so it fits with what I (and other LDS) believe.

Edited January 13, 2010 by bytebear

[Texaspride]

Thanks for the reply Texas Pride! So then you are agreeing with Prison Chaplain in saying that there may be people in Heaven who have not heard the Gospel here on earth?

Do you think (as LDS do) that there will be a period of education or learning after death for those who have not heard the Gospel here on earth, so that they can learn of Jesus? Or are you saying that they can be saved without accepting Jesus because they have listened to their conscience? I know there are people of many faiths (picture a Bhuddist) who may respond to thier conscience, but never know of Jesus.

It seems like if those who do not have the Law are not judged according to the Law, then they don't need Christ? But the Bible says He is the ONLY way to the Father.

I disagree with your last paragraph, We all need Christ He truly is the ONLY way to the Father. I just believe that for the very few who lived back in the jungle their whole life who have never heard the gospel that the Lord will judge them fairly according to what Paul was saying in Romans. I dont believe their are "billions" who have not heard the gospel message or havent had a chance to receive Jesus. Their are missionaries in all nations, I have heard many reports of missionaries going into the jungles and sharing Jesus with the tribes. Jesus Christ split time, BC/AD. People will be responsible. Have you ever heard of "Voice of the Martyrs" A book written by John Fox that compiles Christian martyrdome since the death of our Lord on the cross. It records a historical record that the Lord has always had a thriving church since His departure. And they have been sharing the message of the cross ever since. (1 Corinthians 1:18) Remember the Lord said, Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. He was telling the truth as He always does. His church never died off. I believe most have the oppurtunity to hear if they so choose. But for those who truly havent will be dealt with fairly. God is good! Jesus is the only way! Narrow is the road and only a few find it the Bible says. I hand out lots of Christian literature and many people will throw it in my face or seem to think im being rude for handing them a tract. They dont want much to do with Jesus. They are enjoying their sin. It's sad.

[striving]

You surely can't be serious Texas Pride? Anyone who is even slightly acquainted with world history could never say that there are "very few" who have not heard of Jesus. And it is not just people in the jungle either. Think of the people who have lived in China in the past several thousand years! And that's just one country.

I guess you're not understanding what I was saying about point #2 above. You have to follow what you say your beliefs are to their conclusion. You said that the Lord will judge people fairly according to what Paul said in Romans. So according to what you have just said one of two things must be true. 1) there IS a chance to learn of Jesus after death, or 2) there will people in heaven who HAVE NOT heard of or accepted Jesus. Which is it?

You say that the "jungle people" will have a chance at salvation but how? Like I said, they will either be saved without knowing Jesus, OR they will be able to learn of Him after death, OR they will be condemned to hell.

Can you clarify a bit more? I am really trying to think of how I could phrase my question differently so it would be easier to understand......

[Texaspride]

You surely can't be serious Texas Pride? Anyone who is even slightly acquainted with world history could never say that there are "very few" who have not heard of Jesus. And it is not just people in the jungle either. Think of the people who have lived in China in the past several thousand years! And that's just one country.

I guess you're not understanding what I was saying about point #2 above. You have to follow what you say your beliefs are to their conclusion. You said that the Lord will judge people fairly according to what Paul said in Romans. So according to what you have just said one of two things must be true. 1) there IS a chance to learn of Jesus after death, or 2) there will people in heaven who HAVE NOT heard of or accepted Jesus. Which is it?

You say that the "jungle people" will have a chance at salvation but how? Like I said, they will either be saved without knowing Jesus, OR they will be able to learn of Him after death, OR they will be condemned to hell.

Can you clarify a bit more? I am really trying to think of how I could phrase my question differently so it would be easier to understand......

Hey Striving. I obviousely have no certainty on how many have not heard the good news. I do know that the gospel is illegal in China. Do you suppose the people do not know the laws? If it is against the law to be a Christian they are aware of "Christians". Also I have know personally missionaries that go to China. The Church in China is underground but they are sharing their faith. It was illegal to be a Christian when the Apostle Paul met the Lord on the road to damascus, but when he was born again he preached in many cities that condemned his message. But everyone knew about it. You really should look up voice of the martyrs on line. It will show you the church in China. Millions of Bibles are smuggled in and many Pastors are thrown in jail for sharing their faith there. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the Lord's church. I believe the word's Jesus spoke.

Also I went back and read my response to your other question about salvation, and I thought it explained my beliefs on it. Maybe I misunderstood part of the question, I am not the most scholared person in the world that is for sure. LOL... Anyways Be Blessed.

[striving]

Thanks for sharing your views on China. I think that the vast majority of Chinese have no real concept of Christ, nor have they ever. Yes there are missionaries and Bibles in China NOW but China has a very loooong history, and Christianity is in it's early infancy there.

My question to you was about the contradiction in evangelical beliefs about salvation. Evangelicals say that the only way to be saved is to accept Jesus as Savior. But they also say that God is the Judge and he will decide who is saved, even if that person has never heard of Christ. Evengelicals do not believe that those who die without a knowledge of Jesus have an opportunity to learn of Him and accept Him after death. Accordingly, this MUST mean that there will be people in Heaven who have not accepted Jesus, right?

If there are people in Heaven who have not accepted (or ever heard of) Jesus, then doesn't that go against everything Evangelicals teach?

Clearly this is not making sense to Texas Pride. Am I making sense to anyone? Does anyone know how evangelicals reconcile this amongst themselves?

[Texaspride]

Thanks for sharing your views on China. I think that the vast majority of Chinese have no real concept of Christ, nor have they ever. Yes there are missionaries and Bibles in China NOW but China has a very loooong history, and Christianity is in it's early infancy there.

My question to you was about the contradiction in evangelical beliefs about salvation. Evangelicals say that the only way to be saved is to accept Jesus as Savior. But they also say that God is the Judge and he will decide who is saved, even if that person has never heard of Christ. Evengelicals do not believe that those who die without a knowledge of Jesus have an opportunity to learn of Him and accept Him after death. Accordingly, this MUST mean that there will be people in Heaven who have not accepted Jesus, right?

If there are people in Heaven who have not accepted (or ever heard of) Jesus, then doesn't that go against everything Evangelicals teach?

Clearly this is not making sense to Texas Pride. Am I making sense to anyone? Does anyone know how evangelicals reconcile this amongst themselves?

No your not making sense. I dont see any contradiction. Why is it hard to understand that those who never hear can be judged? why is it hard to understand that those who do hear will be judged? Dont you trust God to judge a righteouss judgment?

Why shoud those who hear the message and refuse to obey it have a chance to prove it once they pass away? Those who love the Savior will obey Him.

Their is "no other way to Heaven but by Jesus Christ, not mohammad, budda, etc.

To those who honestly never heard nor had a chance Paul explains that they will be judged as it says in Romans, "previouse page". No contradiction once so ever! Sounds fair to me.

[Texaspride]

This seems contradictive to me on this subject striving.

The book of mormon seems to teach no chance after death.

Mosiah 2:36-39

36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom's paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—

37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.

38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.

Alma 34:32-35

32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

Doctrine and covenants teaches differently here.

Chance After Death

Doctrine and Covenants

Section 76:106-112

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

Section 88:99

99 And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.

[striving]

You JUST SAID that some people will go to heaven who have NEVER accepted Jesus.

THEN you said that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven.

That is a big contradiction. How can it be both?