Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Why is the idea of a talking donkey such a crazy idea? I've seen the story of a talking donkey in the Old Testament ridiculed recently. I was wondering if anyone had a cogent argument against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Why is the idea of a talking donkey such a crazy idea? I've seen the story of a talking donkey in the Old Testament ridiculed recently. I was wondering if anyone had a cogent argument against it.Do donkeys talk? Edited September 26, 2009 by bmy- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generally_Me Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 I thought I had posted to this, but my post seems to have disappeared. I said something about the shape of animal teeth and jaws and tongues et. al, as compared to human features. However, on further reflection, I don't see any reason why Balaam's ears couldn't have been changed, or his mind, to have the "gift of tongues" and understand what the donkey was saying in its limited way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Do donkeys talk?The Old Testament records the story of Balaam's talking donkey (Numbers 22). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 I thought I had posted to this, but my post seems to have disappeared. The entire thread disappeared.However, on further reflection, I don't see any reason why Balaam's ears couldn't have been changed, or his mind, to have the "gift of tongues" and understand what the donkey was saying in its limited way.It's definitely a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) The Old Testament records the story of Balaam's talking donkey (Numbers 22).It's not a history book nor a science textbook. It's a collection of spiritual truths, tall-tales, and folklore. When I say 'talk' I mean in a language commonly practiced by humans. Donkeys and most animals can communicate but they cannot and have never been able to speak in a literal language like English, Spanish, etc. Edited September 26, 2009 by bmy- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 It's not a history book nor a science textbook. It's a collection of spiritual truths, tall-tales, and folklore.Nice dodge. Why couldn't God 'make' it happen?My question is what makes this story so implausible that it's impossible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Nice dodge. Why couldn't God 'make' it happen?My question is what makes this story so implausible that it's impossible?It's not a dodge at all. There's simply no evidence that supports a talking donkey.. nor is there evidence that supports a donkey being able to speak in a human language. They just don't have the right hardware.I don't believe in talking snakes either. We could say that he "thought" he heard it speak.. that's acceptable. To claim that a donkey/snake physically spoke in a human language.. ehh.. that's tough to let pass. Perhaps God was hiding behind a large rock and throwing his voice. Edited September 26, 2009 by bmy- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Isn't there a scripture where the earth speaks? I'm wondering if GMe isn't on to something with the speaking in tongues thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Maxel, I don't know what to say. It still surprises me to see Christians, especially LDS, claim that since donkey's can't talk that means the donkey in the Bible didn't talk (generally speaking about any miracle). Babies can't talk either but in the Book of Mormon their mouths were opened and they spoke things that couldn't be written. I have no doubt God can make a donkey talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 It's not a dodge at all. There's simply no evidence that supports a talking donkey.. nor is there evidence that supports a donkey being able to speak in a human language. They just don't have the right hardware.Moses didn't have the right "hardware" to part the Red Sea- yet he did (if we're to believe canonical scripture).I don't believe in talking snakes either. We could say that he "thought" he heard it speak.. that's acceptable. To claim that a donkey/snake physically spoke in a human language.. ehh.. that's tough to let pass. Perhaps God was hiding behind a large rock and throwing his voice.Why is it more acceptable to believe that deity came down and gave Balaam an aural hallucination than to believe that God simply gave the donkey the ability to talk?For the record, I agree that this might be what actually happened. However, I'm not closed to the idea of the donkey actually forming the words itself- and I'm wondering why others who refuse that possibility do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Why is the idea of a talking donkey such a crazy idea? I've seen the story of a talking donkey in the Old Testament ridiculed recently. I was wondering if anyone had a cogent argument against it.The argument (that it is a crazy idea) goes like this.1. It was a donkey.2. It talked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 The Old Testament records the story of Balaam's talking donkey (Numbers 22).What was that whoosing sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Snow, I know you don't believe that this could happen. I can respect that. But there are many of us that do believe it can happen. I believe in miracles and I believe God has the power to make something like that happen. I'm just asking you to respect what we believe, whether you agree with it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 The argument (that it is a crazy idea) goes like this.1. It was a donkey.2. It talked.In a theology that includes Moses parting the Red Sea, humans rising to become gods, humans standing in the midst of infernos and not being burned, people raising others from the dead, and more- how is the idea of a talking donkey really all that far-fetched?I'm seeing if you have any argument about how it's different other than "it's a talking donkey! That's crazy!"What was that whoosing sound? What do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Moses didn't have the right "hardware" to part the Red Sea- yet he did (if we're to believe canonical scripture).Eh, Maxel, have you ever heard of the sea of reeds?Why is it more acceptable to believe that deity came down and gave Balaam an aural hallucination than to believe that God simply gave the donkey the ability to talk?Eh, Maxel, have you ever considered that there was neither a talking donkey nor a hallucination, rather that it was a folk tale to used illustrate a point?You are probably unaware but classical Jewish commentators like Maimonides taught that the story is not to be taken literally.Let me ask you this: The time of the donkey in question was, oh, about 1200 BCE or sumpen. The account of the donkey was written in about 950-1000 BCE. How do you suppose the author knew about Francis - the talking mule? Was a correspondent on assignment hiding in the bushes and overheard the conversation and then etched the account into cuneiform tablets hid up and preseved of hundreds of years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Snow, I know you don't believe that this could happen. I can respect that. But there are many of us that do believe it can happen. I believe in miracles and I believe God has the power to make something like that happen.I'm just asking you to respect what we believe, whether you agree with it or not.Oh I believe it COULD happen. There is just no evident reason to believe that it actually did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 I can see now why you might argue the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 What do you mean by this?It means you missed the bmy's point. He wasn't asking what you were talking about - thus requiring the answer you gave. He was making the point that donkeys don't talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Eh, Maxel, have you ever heard of the sea of reeds?I remember you posting about it once. I frankly don't care what you think about it, Snow- the Doctrine and Covenants specifically say Moses parted the Red Sea.Eh, Maxel, have you ever considered that there was neither a talking donkey nor a hallucination, rather that it was a folk tale to used illustrate a point?You are probably unaware but classical Jewish commentators like Maimonides taught that the story is not to be taken literally.Let me ask you this: The time of the donkey in question was, oh, about 1200 BCE or sumpen. The account of the donkey was written in about 950-1000 BCE. How do you suppose the author knew about Francis - the talking mule? Was a correspondent on assignment hiding in the bushes and overheard the conversation and then etched the account into cuneiform tablets hid up and preseved of hundreds of years?The question isn't whether the story is true or not- the question is whether it's possible or not. I accept it as true. You don't have to- but I want to hear your reasoning as to why.By the way, I can think of 3 or 4 different ways in which the story of Balaam could have been preserved- orally, through writing, through later revelation about the situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Oh I believe it COULD happen. There is just no evident reason to believe that it actually did happen. Now you tell us. You never clarified that. So it's just the timing of it that you question as to it's validity. I understand that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 It means you missed the bmy's point. He wasn't asking what you were talking about - thus requiring the answer you gave. He was making the point that donkeys don't talk.Okay. Now I understand. Please explain how the "wooshing" comment relates to that situation (I have an idea, but I'd really like to hear it in your own words). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Oh I believe it COULD happen. There is just no evident reason to believe that it actually did happen.... Really? So why have you referenced the story of Balaam as a way to discredit the Old Testament?If you truly believed it's possible, then why use it as a reference to a story so absurd that it helps discredit the validity of the Old Testament- presumably because it could never happen? Edited September 26, 2009 by Maxel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawazu Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Howdy, Is a talking donkey more or less wishful than any of the other notions in which religious adherents believe? (Namely, God and all that.) Regards, Kawazu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 ... Really? So why have you referenced the story of Balaam as a way to discredit the Old Testament?If you truly believed it's possible, then why use it as a reference to a story so absurd that it helps discredit the validity of the Old Testament- presumably because it could never happen?Why do you putz around with this stuff Maxel. It's not the OT that I am discrediting. It's a literalistic interpretation of the OT that I disagree with.I believe the story in question is an account of prophetic experience in the form of dreams or visions. It's a real donkey talking that don't accept as literal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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