Alcohol in moderation

[pam]

Uh no thanks. I don't think his wife (my sister) will appreciate it.

[john doe]

Yeah really. People that can't make up their mind drive me crazy. But I really wish you'd make up your mind if you want the jacket or not...Do you want the jacket? Did you say you wanted a jacket? Beige or dark green.

Sorry everyone..inside family joke.

I thought you wanted the burgandy one. Now which one is hanging in your closet anyway?

[pam]

Heck if I know. I was so confused by the end of that conversation..I'm not sure what I ended up with. The beige one I think.

[Soul_Searcher]

Yeah really. People that can't make up their mind drive me crazy.

why Pam?

[pam]

It was a family joke..nothing more was meant from it.

[john doe]

It's called Family Feud, but Richard Dawson has given up hope and left the building.

[Vort]

I know alcohol in general isn't good at all for the body, but anyone who uses mouthwash has had some [it gets absorbed through the mouth], and we don't ban mouthwash as far as I know. so that's already a bit of alcohol."

Let us note that the word of wisdom does not ban alcohol at all, per se. It bans alcoholic ("strong") drinks. For example, there is no word of wisdom prohibition against eating food prepared in or with alcohol, or using alcohol-based cough syrup.

Alcohol (that is, ethanol) exists naturally in many substances, and our bodies are designed to process alcohol like any other food. Pretty much any drink with sugar, including all fruit juices, contain some small amount of alcohol. I'm willing to bet that even mother's milk contains some minute trace of alcohol. When you have sugars in an aqueous solution, some alcohol molecules are going to end up forming.

The problem, it seems to me, arises when that substance is concentrated and then consumed for its intoxicating effect. I believe this is the reason the Lord warned us against "strong drinks" 176 years ago. But whether I'm right or wrong, others have pointed out the primary reason we avoid alcoholic drinks, and that's because we have been commanded so to do.

[Maxgreen1]

When a covenant is made not to drink, one is expected to keep up their end of the deal. Nobody wants to shortchange God.

And asking only what it does to oneself is selfish.

Remember that you are supposed to set the example.

And what authority does one have to serve his people, and help them deal with such things as Alcoholism, when they themselves drink in "social" or "Rare" occasions.

And remember, the feeling that a traditional swig would be harmless comes from either of two sources, a heavenly source, or a dark, tempting source.

IMO, it comes from the latter.

[flyswatguy]

When a covenant is made not to drink, one is expected to keep up their end of the deal. Nobody wants to shortchange God.

And asking only what it does to oneself is selfish.

Remember that you are supposed to set the example.

And what authority does one have to serve his people, and help them deal with such things as Alcoholism, when they themselves drink in "social" or "Rare" occasions.

And remember, the feeling that a traditional swig would be harmless comes from either of two sources, a heavenly source, or a dark, tempting source.

IMO, it comes from the latter.

when jesus turned the water into wine it was a heavenly source , and the people rejoiced and were happy becuase the wine was good .

as jesus is now a god , and by his godly powers he turned water into wine , i geuss thats the end of god being a good example to all the poor alcoholics out there .

Another point , if god was really in charge of everything , why would he cause plants like marijuanne and poppys that produce opium to grow .

wouldn,t god be doing the human race a big favour if he only created things like lettuce and tomatoes .

God is not setting us a very good example by turning water into wine and creating lots of halucegenic plants all around the world .

if you knew the real history of the planet you live on you would know that there is not a primitive tribe anywhere on earth that was not doing something or other to get themselves out of it .

that includes the jews who ate mushrooms in the desert for fourty years

[flyswatguy]

jesus turned water into wine and was slandered by the pharisees as being a wine bibber , his answer to these slanders was that its not what goes into the belly that makes a man dirty , but what goes out of the heart . a good point .

jesus also had long hair and a beard so would probably not make your personal circle of friends

[dlpeter]

I think the idea is that alcohol can alter the biological function of the body. Being drunk limits the capacity of our moral agency. I think that the general idea would be to jsut avoid it altogether to eliminate the problem. It's kind of the same idea with teenage sex statistics, the only way to really prevent it is to abstain entirely from it.

Alcohol also tends to be a gateway into more severe behavior and problems. Things like alcoholism affect entire families and since alcohol provides no benefits to health, it is just omitted.

[hordak]

nothing, unless you covenant to abstain,

[Cassiopeia]

I'm going to add to this conversation but first let me introduce myself. I am a member of the church and I'm also a communications specialist. I'm going to point out a few things from my field of work's perspective and then tell you my personal view as a member.

So....its for the weakest of the saints and its meant as a warning and a protection. It won't take long for you to see the problems that come from abusing the human body.

Using this as a means of persuasion is engaging in mudslinging. You're basically telling them if they don't obey the WoW, they are among the weakest of the weak. That's a form of coercion, something our Father does NOT condone.

When a covenant is made not to drink, one is expected to keep up their end of the deal. Nobody wants to shortchange God.

And asking only what it does to oneself is selfish. <--emotional blackmail

Remember that you are supposed to set the example. <--persuasion by guilt

And what authority does one have to serve his people, and help them deal with such things as Alcoholism, when they themselves drink in "social" or "Rare" occasions. <---what authority does any imperfect member have to serve? And a member how has or maybe even still has to fight not to drink is in more of a position to help others with the same difficulty. It is not requisite for us to be perfect in our obedience to serve. For if that were true, none would hold callings.

With the exception of callings that require a worthy temple recommend holder, I know members who have served while having WoW problems, or not having been full tithe payers, and not attended church on a regular basis.

And remember, the feeling that a traditional swig would be harmless comes from either of two sources, a heavenly source, or a dark, tempting source.

IMO, (it is unnecessary to say IMO, we know this is your opinion)it comes from the latter.<--God and Satan are not the only forces at play in this life. We are capable without influence from either to act of our own accord to influence the choices of our fellow brothers and sisters. We are accountable and can't blame everything on God or Satan.

There is enough compelling evidence to warrant the abstinence of addictive substances like alcohol, stimulants and illicit drugs. As some have pointed out, there is no such thing as moderation with addictive substances. I come from a long line of alcoholics and because of that my mother who was not a member of the church, lectured us at a very early age the evils of how alcohol can ruin your life. I've helped one of my children recover from Crystal Meth addiction.

But what I find disturbing in the discussion of this subject in this thread, is not one person addressed the most important issue in explaining why we don't partake of these substances. It's not because God tells us not to, though we are wise to heed that council, but rather, what is in our heart and in our mind to follow it? Are we convicted of the principle? Have we taken it into our hearts and experienced the blessing of it for ourselves and therefore do not have difficultly in simply saying, I don't like it, I don't want it, I am convinced it's bad for me.

It does not matter to your audience how you came to that conclusion but rather if you are persuaded by your own reasoning and not through a process that seems like brainwashing. Can you when faced with opposition, provide plausible explanations as to why you don't take these things into your body?

It is a danger to the individual who follows any council or commandment with blind obedience for when your motivation for being obedient fails, you're strength will too.