Weigh in on this parenting situation...

[stevedaddy]

OH web diagnosis! How fun, here I go!

I'll explain her side for you, if I may be so bold.

She is completely tired, stressed, overwhelmed and is really trying hard to be a good mother. Since you are her favorite person in the world she wants to feel like you see the effort behind her actions, even though she and her actions are competently hectic, tired, sometimes frantic and especially ragged.

By stepping into her shoes with no relief (and yes, going to your parents would be relief) she is hoping you will see the hurculean effort she is performing and you'll suddenly say to yourself "Wow! My wife is awesome and I should treat her like the Queen she is!"

Making comments such as "you would notice that I will, in all likelihood, be doing what she asks. It's not worth the argument." undermine the effort because you're doing something because she's nagging you and you don't' want to hear it, not because you love her and realize that if something is important, that makes it important, even if you don't agree. (If it's hard to see the importance, it's ok to pretend)

To sum it all up, she wants your love and for you to understand how hard it is for her right now but how willing she is to do it. Go buy her some flowers, rub her shoulders, thank her before you watch the kids, and after you watch the kids, don't' make it sound like it was easier (or as easy, ha!) as it was.

Thank you for this post. That seems to fit the situation very well. Why she can't spell it out like this for me is really too bad. On the other hand, as a dude, how in the world am I supposed to be able to put this all together on my own!? You femininos are a very mysterious bunch. I guess that's what I'll spend my eternity with trying to figure out.

I guess it would be stupid to ask why all the pampering and pretending is necessary, since that would be like asking men why they need sports and action movies.

[pam]

You femininos are a very mysterious bunch. I guess that's what I'll spend my eternity with trying to figure out.

You and every other member of the male species.

[will227457]

well I think you should man up and stick with your original plan. By caving in you are only showing that she can push you around in the future. There is nothing wrong with your plan to have then spend time with the grand parents while you get work done. I bet she'd be even more mad if you got fired or couldn't pay the light bill or couldn't provide food for your family, it's not like your running around with your buddies...I think that your wife needs alone time for her hobbies being a fulltime mom can be a struggle and is a full time 24hr a day job, but her idea to punish you by makiing you take care of the kids for 4 hours seems just that punishment..

your plan sounds perfectly reasonable to me sorry but i must disagree with other posters

[Guest]

My whole goal here is to gain some additional perspective to her language here. It's hard to get it from her without making her frustrated. She has a tough time putting into words her feelings. I have a tough time making sense of her feelings without them being put into words. Does that make sense? Sometimes, doing what she wants without understanding why, amounts to doing it because it's not worth the frustration on both our parts. I don't see this as much different than you having a hard time understanding your husband. I would say at least I'm working on understanding her better by coming on here.

As stupid as it seems to ask complete strangers for their opinions, some people have given quite useful feedback... as opposed to those who want to use this forum as an opportunity to chastise.

Not stupid at all... the only difference with this and buying a book is that you get a "supposedly expert" opinion on the book but you get "real life" application from strangers - the problem is, you get the good with the bad in a public forum, so it's up to you to pick out the wheat from the... what's the word... chaff?

There is no difference, I think, between your situation and my situation with my husband. Now, I've been married 12 years and we still have these "language" issues. But, what we have become expert at is the process of getting over the miscommunication. We don't just jump on each other when we feel slighted. We try to figure out what the other person is really wanting to say. Sometimes we argue and fight over it, but we know there's a solution at the end of it...

Every relationship is different, so every relationship has their own language. But, first of all, it has to be a two-way effort - it can't just be you doing the "translation". She has to put in some work on it too... how you can broach that to her, I'm not sure, but try to find a way. For your side, you will need to understand her background - how she grew up, how her parents talk to her, how she became who she is, that kind of stuff. All those impact her language. Also, her personality impacts her language - if she's the introvert type, she could say, "Sure, okay" and actually mean, "I don't really like it but I am too chicken to tell you so". But if she's the aggressive type she could say, "You stupid excuse for a human!", when she actually mean, "You hurt me". Know what I'm saying?

Understanding her language is one thing. Speaking in her language is a challenge too. Like, my husband is a What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get type. So, I would get so upset sometimes that he just couldn't remember to take the trash out on Thursday, so instead of saying, "You are so irresponsible"... which is really what I wanted to say, that won't fly with him, coz he will just say, "what are you talking about woman?" and just ignore me... instead, I would tell him, "Take out the trash. Every Thursday. Don't miss. If you miss without just cause, you will show me you are irresponsible." I know, it sounds stupid doesn't it? But, spelling things out like that has been working for my house. Oh, and I've learned not to broach life-altering subjects during a football game. Nope, he loves me and I know that but when it's football time, I'm not at the front of his brain. I've accepted that and we're happier for it. What I'm trying to say here is that... don't put too much meaning into stuff. Of course he loves me more than football. But, I used to think football was the "other woman". Also, what this shows is that there are times when you just have to let her have her way on things...

I can't really tell you if any of this is applicable to your situation. But hope all these helps.

Add on: About that 4-hour deal... she's trying to tell you something. The other people in this thread may have the right answer that she's trying to tell you she's fed up, overwhelmed, what-have-you (yes, all women go through that, fas as a i know). But I wouldn't say it that way if that was me. So, that's definitely a different language style. It might be much more than that - it could truly be that she doesn't see your efforts at all. So, yeah, you might have to find a way for her to see what you've done for the family... because, you know that 8 hour time you're at work... she doesn't see that. So, you could have told her, I'm tired of work, you go work for 4 hours make the money I make. So, you'll have to figure out how to say all that in a language she can understand without contributing to her frustration. Yes, it is difficult. But, that's how lasting marriage have to be sometimes.

Edited October 9, 2009 by anatess

[stevedaddy]

well I think you should man up and stick with your original plan. By caving in you are only showing that she can push you around in the future. There is nothing wrong with your plan to have then spend time with the grand parents while you get work done. I bet she'd be even more mad if you got fired or couldn't pay the light bill or couldn't provide food for your family, it's not like your running around with your buddies...I think that your wife needs alone time for her hobbies being a fulltime mom can be a struggle and is a full time 24hr a day job, but her idea to punish you by makiing you take care of the kids for 4 hours seems just that punishment..

your plan sounds perfectly reasonable to me sorry but i must disagree with other posters

Thanks for the support. I'm 6'3", 290 lbs and she knows she can push me around already. This is my train of thought on the issue. However, the "women speak" posters on here are right about women being essentially crazy (at least from a man's perspective). I don't think this logic will prevail in this situation. Four hours with the kids isn't a problem at all, just the workload this weekend is. And that's something I can take care of while she's at church on Sunday.... just kidding.

[stevedaddy]

sorry for laughing.

Don't be. If I weren't in the middle of it, I'd be laughing too. Your husband needs to change more diapers... jk.

[MarginOfError]

A mother is leaving her two children (one of which is still breastfed) for four hours on a saturday to pursue a hobby.

Notice that a mother didn't leave her children with their father. She just left her children. To pursue a hobby. Right from the start you've cast her in a negative light.

Because she doesn't believe her Husband understands what it's like to take care of his own children without help, she committed him to stay home and not leave the house at all or associate with anyone who may provide some help watching the children.

I hope she asked a direct "will you" question. Regardless, the fact that she committed the father implies it was a planned event.

(Background: everyday after work the husband comes home and dutifully helps with the children without being asked. He regularly bathes, feeds, and puts the older child to bed with a book and a song, cleaning up the dishes afterward - he's not a slacker when he is at home).

And here comes the father to save the day! Master planner, multi-tasker, and chore-doer. Any woman would be lucky to have a man like him...oh except for the condescending tone with which he describes his wife in his first sentence of a post on the internet.

The young wife points out that the husband has never spent four straight hours alone with the newborn and needs this experience to appreciate what the wife has to deal with everyday. Husband plans on spending the majority of the time with the kids, but wants to provide them some time with the grandparents, allowing him to run some work related errands during this time.

Oh...my...gosh! A whole four hours! How noble of this father to spend the majority of a whole four hours with his kids on a Saturday! That amounts to what? 2.5 hours. And then dump off the kids at the grandparents because the world will fall apart if he loses another hour and a half.

Who should back down?

With the way this husband has framed the situation, the answer is obvious. That selfish mother who is so eager to abandon her kids for four hours is obviously in the wrong. It's a good thing the husband was able to tell us exactly what this mother is like.

I'm sorry, but your communication style wreaks of self-serving propoganda. There's a reason I was quick to be suspicious of your account, and that's because it is worthy of suspicion. Yeah, I am a bit condescending, but I learned the skill from your post.

[will227457]

its a slippery slope steve....but you are probably making the right decision.....

[pam]

MOE be nice.

[stevedaddy]

Notice that a mother didn't leave her children with their father. She just left her children. To pursue a hobby. Right from the start you've cast her in a negative light.

I hope she asked a direct "will you" question. Regardless, the fact that she committed the father implies it was a planned event.

And here comes the father to save the day! Master planner, multi-tasker, and chore-doer. Any woman would be lucky to have a man like him...oh except for the condescending tone with which he describes his wife in his first sentence of a post on the internet.

Oh...my...gosh! A whole four hours! How noble of this father to spend the majority of a whole four hours with his kids on a Saturday! That amounts to what? 2.5 hours. And then dump off the kids at the grandparents because the world will fall apart if he loses another hour and a half.

With the way this husband has framed the situation, the answer is obvious. That selfish mother who is so eager to abandon her kids for four hours is obviously in the wrong. It's a good thing the husband was able to tell us exactly what this mother is like.

I'm sorry, but your communication style wreaks of self-serving propoganda. There's a reason I was quick to be suspicious of your account, and that's because it is worthy of suspicion. Yeah, I am a bit condescending, but I learned the skill from your post.

Glad to be of service. Use the skills of propaganda and condescension I've taught you wisely. Troll much?

[will227457]

wow steve....tough room....

margin of error, sounds like you have some of your own issues to deal with....did your daddy not love you?

[stevedaddy]

wow steve....tough room....

margin of error, sounds like you have some of your own issues to deal with....did your daddy not love you?

In all fairness, my little third person narrative did skew a bit in my favor. But yeah, MOE=wow. I guess I can't be that surprised. What is actually surprising is the amount of useful responders (no offense to the forum, but this is an anonymous online community - why should you care about my situation?). I am grateful for the thought given to my situation by the majority of the posters.

[Guest]

In all fairness, my little third person narrative did skew a bit in my favor. But yeah, MOE=wow. I guess I can't be that surprised. What is actually surprising is the amount of useful responders (no offense to the forum, but this is an anonymous online community - why should you care about my situation?). I am grateful for the thought given to my situation by the majority of the posters.

Well, you did go to lds.net. We're family friendly over here... But, with all the advice, you are now required to attend 3 hours of church every Sunday from now until... forever.

[beefche]

In all fairness, my little third person narrative did skew a bit in my favor. But yeah, MOE=wow. I guess I can't be that surprised. What is actually surprising is the amount of useful responders (no offense to the forum, but this is an anonymous online community - why should you care about my situation?). I am grateful for the thought given to my situation by the majority of the posters.

Why should we care? Maybe because we are all in this together? Maybe because a lot of us on this forum have real friendships with each other from meeting on this forum? Maybe because of compassion and caring natures that we possess?

[pam]

In all fairness to MOE, I understand where he is coming from. Steve, so many times we have had people come here and give us a life scenario and it appears to be so one sided. We hear only one side and it is not always a positive one for the spouse not posting.

So while I agree that MOE might have been a little over zealous in pointing this out...I can see where he is coming from.

But again...I think there are many that have been in your exact same shoes and have wondered how to even out the scale so to speak. It's hard sometimes.

[stevedaddy]

Well, you did go to lds.net. We're family friendly over here... But, with all the advice, you are now required to attend 3 hours of church every Sunday from now until... forever.

I would love to go back to only 3 hours of church on Sunday.

[pam]

I would love to go back to only 3 hours of church on Sunday.

You must have a calling that keeps you busy on Sunday.

[stevedaddy]

Why should we care? Maybe because we are all in this together? Maybe because a lot of us on this forum have real friendships with each other from meeting on this forum? Maybe because of compassion and caring natures that we possess?

Didn't mean to offend. I'm not one for posting on these message boards, just felt like it today. So far, I'm satisfied. You may have a new regular forum member here.

[stevedaddy]

You must have a calling that keeps you busy on Sunday.

YM President. To be honest, it can be part of the problem. The vast majority of my non-work time away from home is due to this calling. At times, my wife resents it. I can tell.

[Honor]

I think that there's venting (which most people expect to be exaggerated and biased) and then there's asking for advice, and when you mix the two, it's hard for people to know how to approach it. They tend to respond with reactions from the extreme ends of the spectrum.

[Misshalfway]

OK....I am just gonna say that anyone who stays home with the children is doing one of the hardest jobs on the planet! Maybe the bread winners do work hard too. Maybe they sacrifice an equal amount of man hours and quarts of sweat. But they often don't have to do it with multiple screaming voices who need a variety of different comforts and the most inopportune moments and who delay and interrupt phone calls and tantrum during important meeting with principles and doctors and grocery store attendants.

Maybe there is a case to be made here that both partners offerings should be acknowledged and appreciated. But parenthood breeds a unique kind of stress and burden and everyone involved should be able to take four hours to pursue a hobby now and then. And I think it is fair to expect that ones spouse will lovingly support it.

I think it is selfish if one partner, no matter which one, to think of their own comforts or perspectives over the person they married and made babies with. And in my experience it is sometimes the habit of new father's to pon their babysitting duties off on their Mother's while they golf. Not sure if that is the case here. But I have seen it enough to sympathize with nursing mothers who are always attached to a baby or a milk pump or a pad! I'd feel better about this thread if I felt a little male compassion for women and all the physical struggles of simply having the baby, let alone raising it. And for all those posts who are telling the wife to wise up, my opinion is that you don't' have a clue how to make your marriages happier.

[beefche]

YM President. To be honest, it can be part of the problem. The vast majority of my non-work time away from home is due to this calling. At times, my wife resents it. I can tell.

Anyone who works in YM or YW have a busy, busy, busy calling. Except for the bishop, I'm willing to put it on record that YM/YW callings are the busiest. That's especially hard on a young family. I can understand her resentment.

[pam]

Didn't mean to offend. I'm not one for posting on these message boards, just felt like it today. So far, I'm satisfied. You may have a new regular forum member here.

Glad to hear it. You probably have a few that could benefit from your YM experience.

[Maya]

I been home taking care of kids when they were small. I think the most difficult was not to have any adult contact all day, just the small ones. I was going on walls sometimes. The house was in a mess and as I was really consentrateing to the kids I had no energy to the house. I had 4-6 kids to take care of, as I tok care of a few extras.

I hope she could have a group she could go to on daytime with the kids. Kids play mothers talk. Or maybe she could arrange one and invite other mothers once a week at daytime to her home with the todlers.

To a person taking care of kids a work outside of home really feels like an oasis ... especially if the person is not so much in to childrencare, not all women are, but they do want to or are brought up to take care of their own... So YOU are in an oasis while she is bound to home with two kids ( I suppose 2). She wont get anything done that she would like to do as the kids need to be kept an eye on. Often men take things much easier... they let the kids play and watch tv or are at the computer instead of watching the kids all the time... and the house looks accordingly afterwards... usually.

I remember when my Dh came home from work I wanted to go to stores, just drive away from home to be a bit out and he preferred to stay at home...

If she could see the taking care of the kids as work, it might be easier... then you could deal all the evenings and weekends so you could get equally freetime. I dont think it is right taht you have to take care of the kids in the evening more than she does either ... after all you are the one working.

Takin care of kids alone all day is not very intellectually inspiring. She needs something intellectual to do. Or when you get home she might be crabbing on floor saying "goo,goog dada..."

[mommywifevillain]

even if people don't know you are talking about me, I know you are talking about me all over the internet to perfect strangers, and I don't appreciate it.

I do however appreciate what one person replied...

"There are two things about this situation that bother me.

1) the father's is described as being a flawless non-slacker. The mother, on the other hand, is described almost completely negatively. The lack of anything negative about him and anything positive about her makes me suspicious.

2) skilled communicators don't go to anonymous message boards to muster up support for their points of view.

Putting together the tone with which the mother and father are described and the implied gender of your screen name, I'm afraid I have to conclude that you are the father in this instance. So far, I'm not too impressed.

I don't care what you and your wife decide to do about this squabble. But it does appear that you need to do some serious work on your conflict management skills."

__________________

...and to ask perfect strangers who is right and who is wrong is inappropriate, especially when no one is right or wrong, we both have good points and good motives. Also to give a completely biased background portraying yourself as perfect and me as a perfect villain is very hurtful. Although there are a lot of true things about your statement, and a lot of great things you do (this is, afterall why I married you and love you) I deserve appreciation, and your comment shows that you have none for me. It is also, very wrong. let's investigate (my remarks are in a different color

PLEASE NOTE THAT LOWER CASE IS FATHER'S ORIGINAL POST and UPPER CASE IS WIFE"S REBUTTLE

A mother is leaving her two children (one of which is still breastfed) for four hours on a saturday to pursue a hobby. ***Previously she had no hobbies and her husband would give her a hard time when she would sit around, enjoying her few moments of peace, and told her she needed a hobby, so she took his advice and signed up for a one time class, that would require her to lave her two children (first time ever leaving the breast fed one, but has milk pumped in the freezer for dad to feed it). She purposely scheduled on a Saturday so her children would not have to be left with a babysitter. Also, cleared it with the husband before signing up, and told him her expectations before he agreed to stay home with the kids. It was made very clear that the wife did not want the parents to watch the kids, rather the dad, because he is perfectly capable, and if he feels the need to ask parents for help, then she would rather not take the class at all***. Because she doesn't believe her Husband understands what it's like to take care of his own children without help,***Or maybe it is because the husband tells her on a regular basis that she is lucky she gets to stay home and "play" all the time while he works. Implying there is no appreciation for all a mother does, because, afterall, it is all play (sarcasm) Maybe she wants him to know that she doesn't just play all the time***. she committed him to stay home and not leave the house at all ***Actually he was told he could leave the house, when he told her he had to leave them at his parents because he had errands to run, she said here is a novel idea, take the kids with you, because that is what I do every single day when I have errands, and I still manage to get them done)*** or associate with anyone who may provide some help watching the children. The husband has various responsibilities (work) requiring his attention on this particular weekend*** Work that is for yourself, not a boss ,you could schedule it any four hours out of this months free time, but all of a sudden have to schedule it during this particular four hours, which have been on the calendar for a month and a half*** as well as parents who are always asking to see their grandchildren ***And always do see their gandchildren, they were with them last Saturday for six hours, and see them at least every two weeks, quite often times once a week or more.*** The husband feels like it is a good idea to kill two birds with one stone by taking the children to his parent's house (allowing them to spend time together) while at the same time, tending to some of his work requirements ***killing the two birds on your list, not caring that a tired wife might like to come home to a clean house and two kids taking a nap, rather than having got nothing done around the house and the wife having to stop at in-laws after the class to feed the newborn, then still having to go home and put the kids down for a nap, which would be a late nap, which would make a late bedtime, rather than just giving her a much deserved break. Also, caring more about what is important to what your mom wants, rather than what your wife wants (and every man should know you don't ever pick your mom over your wife).*** Upon informing his wife of his plan, she immediately accuses him of disregarding her wishes ***correction, Immidiately calls him out on backing out of his word, that he promised, over a month ago, he wouldn't just ditch the kids with his mom*** and demands emphatically that he stay home and learn what it is like to watch the kids.*** you have watched the kids, you know what it is like. Maybe she wasn't demanding you learn what it is like, but you give her some credit for doing so much, and tell her she deserves a break and you would love to take care of the kids, clean up after them, and get them down for a nap, so she can enjoy her first afternoon off, in months.*** (Background: everyday after work the husband comes home and dutifully helps with the children without being asked. He regularly bathes, feeds, and puts the older child to bed with a book and a song, cleaning up the dishes ***when is the last time you did all the dishes. Yes you help, but don't imply you get all the credit, we both know that I do way more dishes, and even when you do "do the dishes" I still "finish"them, meaning the ones that needed to "soak" overnight, or didn't fit in the dishwasher. And I put the older child to bed at least half the time, and the younger one to bed 100% of the time. Yes you help out when you get home, I appreciate it, and love it, and that is one of the reasons I think you are a good father, and one of the reasons I can make it through the day, but you cannot take all the credit for that making yourself out to be heavensent and me to be a villain afterward*** - he's not a slacker when he is at home***true, I never said you were***). The young wife points out that the husband has never spent four straight hours alone with the newborn and needs this experience to appreciate what the wife has to deal with everyday*** or maybe he needs this experience for the pure sake of spending some time caring for and bonding with his new daughter. I pulled out the "I do it everyday" line because you say it is too hard to get something done if you are watching both of them and I get something, actually lots of things, done everyday while watching both of them, and I know you are a perfectly capable of doing the same. ***Husband plans on spending the majority of the time with the kids, but wants to provide them some time with the grandparents, ***that they are not even closed to deprived of, despite what your mother is always telling you***.allowing him to run some work ***(again self-employed work, not on the clock to a boss, wife told you she wouldn't mind if you run your errands when she gets home)*** related errands during this time. The proposed plan presented by the husband sparks an argument with the wife.***by the way, did you mention you were out of town for work for a week in september, you are leaving on Sunday to go out of town for work until Wednesday, and again going out of town for work twice in the next month? Yes, this proves that you work very hard to provide for our family, and you deserve a lot of credit for that. This also proves that the wife could use a four hour break before being on her own for days (which does make a difference, because she is used to you coming home and helping, and she greatly appreciates that) and the kids, who adore spending time with you, deserve some good time with you before you are gone for work again and they don't see you.***

Who should back down?***no one should back down, maybe both should just listen to what the other is trying to say. Your comments were enlightening to me, because in the heat of the argument I was too stubborn to hear it, and I hope mine are enlightening to you, because your inital posts implies that you did not actually listen to or hear anything I was trying to say.

Just trying not to be a villain

the mommy wife***

Please don't get mad at me. I plan on staying home and enjoying it. I want you to be happy.Really, you really want me to happy, because this forum business begs me to believe otherwise