what to do about family and church

[Elgama]

I have a huge dilemma my daughter still cannot attend church - I know she isn't safe in the care of the current Primary President and I am very unhappy the children are taught in classrooms without windows when 3 sisters with a reputation for bullying have been called as their teacher. One admittedly I do not think would hurt a child - the other 2 have shown they have no concern for the safety of children and have no boundaries for bullying - my branch president says I can't prove my daughter was distressed or had previously been bullied by the sister or other stuff I know but would just be she said, I said. Bottom line no one will admit that Ellie being placed on a naughty seat and distressed for 15 minutes was wrong or even something that will not happen again. When I tried to go in with Ellie it was made clear I was within my rights but unwelcome, Right from when Ellie was tiny my instincts were this Sister wished my daughter harm - we were friends I didn't want to hurt her so had the rule only hubby and me looked after Ellie.

After a lot of prayer and meditation I have decided that taking her to classes with me is wrong she views it as a punishment and she is the only person in this sorry mess that should not feel that way. I miss having my daughter at church and I am finding it increasingly hard to explain to other children and investigators why my children do not come to church with me (Gabe is not happy going without his Sister and will be 3 in a few weeks anyway).

I am thinking ts time to take the kids through to another unit for the time being -I know its frowned upon, and it would mean letting out fantastic RS Presidency down as I have a teaching calling which I love and was very inspired, we don't have a Stake President just yet - do find it odd both our Branch and Stake President were both transferred just as this happened. We will have a new Stake President in a few weeks. I was thinking of taking the children the 70 miles through to another ward. I do not want to make waves in the branch very few people know what happened and only those relevant to it plus one wise sister. We have a lot of investigators. Have been reading a lot lately about Lehi taking his family into the wilderness, and it feels like my kids are already in the wilderness without me

-Charley

[Gramajane]

It seems that your concerns for your daughter can be handled in what you have already shared. I believe your comment "When I tried to go in with Ellie it was made clear I was within my rights but unwelcome, " may be a guide.

-- I think we should be wherever we feel we need to be to protect our children-- just because others may not feel welcoming- would not be enough reason to prevent my presense. Yet I would do all I could to make my presense be as positive as possible!

If especially-- you can trust God that it is ok for you to attend your daughters class-- and do it with a Christ like attitude-- so you are thankful that there are sisters who are willing to take the time to teach the class , and on the day you teach Relief Society-- you could either bring her with you, or see if you pray about it-- if Heavenly Father would watch over her in her class- or ask another friend to attend with her.

You might even acknowledge that you *might* be just a bit over protective,

but you would rather err on the side of prevention than repent in sorrow later. You and your hubby are (on earth) the ultimate persons responsible for her care-- and I'd go with your "gut" and not have her in there if you don't feel good about it. --

the good news is that it is just a few months away from her graduating to a different class/teacher. :)

Part of the possible damage is though, that it is sad for her to feel "unsafe" in church

but it is worse to have her have a bad experience and then totally believe she is unsafe! I would call the "naughty chair" a bad experience already.

I didn't see an age given for her. But I think we don't assign negative traits, nor have time out more than one min. for each age OVER 2 years.

(I do NOT think a "naughty chair" is anything the church has EVER used in my 50+ years of teaching primary-- as I believe it gives a "negative" label to a child--

the "love and logic" principles (there is a web site) work I believe like Heavenly Father works with us. :)

It may be that this trial/challenge will help you to grow as you can

a. show you will be with your daughter- though you suffer a TINY bit feeling unwelcome

b. help you practice being Christlike

c. get you a calling to be her teacher?

d. be a good example to others

May God bless you and your family and us ALL to grow more Christlike. Gramajane

[talisyn]

I'm sorry you're in this situation. I'd go sit my butt down in that class with my daughter when not teaching because the 'naughty chair' and stuff isn't only happening to her. While you're in the class your child and the others have some measure of protection. Just have a huge smile on your face and be the most cheerful and kind person in the room, that usually drives people nuts.

[NeuroTypical]

no one will admit that Ellie being placed on a naughty seat and distressed for 15 minutes was wrong

I'm confused - what's wrong with a child who was being naughty getting put on a naughty seat for 15 minutes?

(I guess a lot depends on what "distressed" means...)

[john doe]

I would agree with Talisyn. Either you or your husband go to the classes with her and sit quietly observing. No teacher should have a problem having a parent assist them in class and might just welcome your being there.

Sometimes we as parents don't recognize that their children could be causing some of the problems too. I'm not saying your daughter is like that, but it happens. I have a problem child in one of my classes, he goes home and tells his parents twisted versions of things I said and they totally believe every word that comes out of his mouth as truth. One day the father came up to me with a list of complaints, and I asked him to come sit in with the class any time he wanted, and that I might come get him whenever I felt the need for it. Since that time the father has learned not to be so judgmental of me and his son has also learned to behave better because he doesn't know when dad will be coming by. Again, I'm not saying Ellie is being that way, but it should be no problem for a parent to sit with their child's class.

Edited October 15, 2009 by john doe
fixed spelling error

[hordak]

I'm confused - what's wrong with a child who was being naughty getting put on a naughty seat for 15 minutes?

(I guess a lot depends on what "distressed" means...)

It is recommended 1 minute per year of age for time outs. Younger kids have short attention spans so after 15 min many kids won't even remember why they where put there in the first place. It is counter productive.

[NeuroTypical]

That makes sense Hordak.

[georgia2]

go into class with her. She won't realize you aren't welcomed and who cares if the teacher doesn't want you there. Act as an assistant and if she doesn't like it she can asked to be released.

[Elgama]

thank you all for your advice - more has happened since, my issue was never with discipline I know my daughter can be a pain in the neck, my issue was more with my daughter coming out of Primary so distressed she had all the fight knocked out of her ( which I know from experience usually takes 30 minutes plus - my daughter has seizures which the Primary President at the time was well aware of that are triggered by stress and raise in temperature as a result of this my daughter had 8 very close together. Also I do feel humiliation has no place in a Primary and have never seen anything similar in my time at church, I had previously stated after a previous incident when Ellie came out in buckets of tears if she was in that state again I wanted them to come and get me. The week following this incident my daughter who admittedly can be meldodramatic - started cowering in corners and wetting herself if I shouted and ducking when I moved towards her - everything in me says more happened in that room than I will ever know. I would have had no issue if she had even struck Ellie and apologised afterwards - but to tell lies about knowing about the seizures, and to leave her in distress for a long period of time is unreasonable. One of the other children is also scared of her.

We have over past few weeks decided for time being not to go to church as a family unit, its been taken with a lot of prayer and for the time being is the right decision. I sent my husband off to get a blessing and was surprised to discover other long standing strong in faith families are having the same promptings. I am particularly disturbed that there is an official story now about what has happened and we have been more or less hung out to dry by branch president. I do not know why he is abeing such and idiot over this woman

-Charley

[Soul_Searcher]

Im sorry that you are going thru this Elgama. Could you sit in on the class? If not maybe have her with u in Sunday School, or failing that go to another ward for a while? This is probably what I would do in that order x

[candyprpl]

I'm in the Primary Presidency in our ward and was a Valient 11 and 12 teacher for 3 yrs prior.

Teaching, No Greater Call -- a resource guide for gospel teaching

Pres. Hinckley observed, little problems will inevitably occur. Whether you are teaching in the home or at church, your lessons may at times be disrupted by the behavior of those you teach. In your efforts to help those who become disruptive, remember that you should not simply try to correct inappropriate behavior or make sure everyone is quiet: you should help learners become better disciples of the Savior.

--- I have a picture of the Savior and ask them would they act this way if Jesus were in the room right now. After a while I just point to the picture and nothing is said.

There was a time I had two brothers and all they did was find ways to bother each other, no matter where I placed them in the room. I started having my husband come to class and sit between them -- that worked. I just introduced my husband as 'priesthood' here for a visit.

There are many ways to deal with children who are difficult. I'm not saying that your child is difficult and that justifies what the teacher did. It is difficult sometimes with children but to use the discipline that that teacher used, I feel, was inappropriate. When I have children who are acting out I try to find out what may be causing them to act out.

"Those you teach have divine characteristics and divine destinies. Your responses to their actions can help them remember their infinite worth as sons and daughters of God. Through your example, you can help them increase in their desire to help each other learn the gospel and live according to its principles."

It's very important to remember this when teaching these precious little spirits. We should seek to understand those we teach -- not make fast judgments and go from there.

And finally, as a teacher I would GREATLY appreciate a parent coming and sitting with their child if that is what it took! We (the presidency) just had a situation where the child was not wanting to be away from mom (without going into detail) and we didn't just want to let him go to RS with mom so we invited mom to his class so that he could still be learning the gospel on his level. There are many LOVING solutions to problems.

I do pray that you will find an easy, loving solution to your dilemma.:)

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

thank you all for your advice - more has happened since, my issue was never with discipline I know my daughter can be a pain in the neck, my issue was more with my daughter coming out of Primary so distressed she had all the fight knocked out of her ( which I know from experience usually takes 30 minutes plus - my daughter has seizures which the Primary President at the time was well aware of that are triggered by stress and raise in temperature as a result of this my daughter had 8 very close together. Also I do feel humiliation has no place in a Primary and have never seen anything similar in my time at church, I had previously stated after a previous incident when Ellie came out in buckets of tears if she was in that state again I wanted them to come and get me. The week following this incident my daughter who admittedly can be meldodramatic - started cowering in corners and wetting herself if I shouted and ducking when I moved towards her - everything in me says more happened in that room than I will ever know. I would have had no issue if she had even struck Ellie and apologised afterwards - but to tell lies about knowing about the seizures, and to leave her in distress for a long period of time is unreasonable. One of the other children is also scared of her.

We have over past few weeks decided for time being not to go to church as a family unit, its been taken with a lot of prayer and for the time being is the right decision. I sent my husband off to get a blessing and was surprised to discover other long standing strong in faith families are having the same promptings. I am particularly disturbed that there is an official story now about what has happened and we have been more or less hung out to dry by branch president. I do not know why he is abeing such and idiot over this woman

-Charley

If this is a known problem in your branch, and there are others with your story, the next step is to go to the Stake President. Follow the chain of command. As I understand it, the Stake Presidency calls people to the Bishopric or Branch Presidency. And, I am sure if the Stake Presidency receives complaints similar to yours they will investigate it - for the safety of the children and the families. And if it is found out that the Branch President and the Primary Instructor are involved in something that is proving to be harmful to the children, then I am sure they would be more than happy to remove them from their callings.

But to sit and "wait it out" is not doing anything good because by doing this, you are allowing it to continue.

Also, if you can afford it, maybe see if you can connect with the LDS Social Services and have your daughter and family seen by a professionally licensed counselor in psychology and human social sciences. This may also help resolve issues and they may be able to assist you with other ways to have this issue resolved.

Edited October 26, 2009 by SeattleTruthSeeker