Doubt Not.

[martybess]

Is doubt ok?

I know doubt is spiritual poison that stunts eternal growth and that we must first feel our way before we can see it with any clarity. I have often wondered if the real problem with members including myself is Doubt. How much does it play in stunting ones progress? We like Thomas, are prone to forget the evidences of Christ’s matchless life and power. Thomas would not believe until he had seen the resurrected Savior himself. But is this bad we ask ourselves? It is a negative emotion related to fear but when you look at the life of Joseph Smith, did he not doubt the other sects were wrong? Possibly Joseph Smith greatest attribute indeed was faith. At the age of 14 did he just give up in the mist of his doubt and the pressures from others in his community, no.

One must have doubts in life but the key is a solid belief in our Lord and Savior and that through a life of struggles in time those doubts will be replaced with belief. This is key in our development to push forward even in difficult situations and in time the answers will come. Most often than not those answers come after much time has passed and more likely then not we wont be taken up to a high place and tempted by satin to jump to prove to ourselves we are the one but none the less satin will temp us in a like manner. I must keep this in mind at all times and doubt not in the Lord and his ways.

So what is the key here? Doubt or doubt not?

-Marty

Edited October 22, 2009 by martybess

[will227457]

doubt is a part of the human makeup, anyone who claims to never have doubted is lieing to them selves, we are required to push past it and not dwell on it...gain our testimonies and absolve our selves of doubt

[martybess]

we are required to push past it

True!

-Marty

[martybess]

Amen! Look unto me the savior said! Doubt not! Fear not! Go forth in faith, BELIEVE!

But keeping in mind doubt can also be a good thing many times for it here that answers, strength and conviction are born! It is the process! Do not follow like sheep, you will not grow past apathy.

-Marty

Ps. Great scriptures and quotes changed!

Edited October 22, 2009 by martybess

[NeuroTypical]

I know doubt is spiritual poison that stunts eternal growth

Well, let's think about that a little. Here's what Widtsoe had to say about it in "Evidences and Reconciliations":

Doubt, unless transmuted into inquiry, has no value or worth in the world. Of itself it has never lifted a brick, driven a nail, or turned a furrow. To take pride in being a doubter, without earnestly seeking to remove the doubt, is to reveal shallowness of thought and purpose.

Doubt of the right kind -- that is, honest questioning -- leads to faith. Such doubt impels men to inquiry which always opens the door to truth. The scientist in his laboratory, the explorer in distant parts, the prayerful man upon his knees -- these and all inquirers like them find truth. They learn that some things are known, others are not. They cease to doubt. They settle down with the knowledge they possess to make the forces of nature do their bidding, knowing well that they will be victorious; and that more knowledge will come to them, if sought, to yield new power.

On the other hand the stagnant doubter, one content with himself, unwilling `to make the effort, to pay the price of discovery, inevitably reaches unbelief and miry darkness. His doubts grow like poisonous mushrooms in the dim shadows of his mental and spiritual chambers. At last, blind like the mole in his burrow, he usually substitutes ridicule for reason, and indolence for labor. The simplest truth is worth the sum of all such doubts. He joins the unhappy army of doubters who, weakened by their doubts, have at all periods of human history allowed others, men of faith, to move the world into increasing light.

LM

[pam]

doubt is a part of the human makeup, anyone who claims to never have doubted is lieing to them selves, we are required to push past it and not dwell on it...gain our testimonies and absolve our selves of doubt

I don't know if never having doubted is lying to themself is a true statement. Depends on what the doubt is about. Is it doubt that the Church is true? Is it doubt that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God? Is it doubt that the words in the Book of Mormon are true? Is it a doubt that our prophets are called of God?

I have never doubted any of these things. Not once. Call me lying to myself if that's what you think.

I have however doubted my abilities. I have doubted my understanding of certain principles of the Gospel. If I see someone post something that is contrary to how I understand it, I research it until I do have a clearer understanding. Ahh the power in learning.

[Misshalfway]

I guess I view doubt as part of the earth life deal. We are in a condition of opposition and opposites in our environment and inside of ourselves. Sometimes I have felt doubt and faith at the very same time. And like everything else, it comes down to what we choose concerning what we feel.

I say get your answers, then after you have your answers, have had a spiritual confirmation of them, remember your answers, have confidence in them, and never again doubt.

I am not sure I can completely accept this. In my experience, it is sometimes the doubt or more accurately the tempations of doubt that backhandedly invite me to learn more or to open my mind to more light or broader understanding.

I believe testimony is not an event but something that is hopefully in constant growing motions and I am not sure it can grow properly without adversity. I think doubt is part of that necessary earth life ingredients. I am interested as to why the scriptures invite us to be believing so often and in so many ways. I think that is becasue God knows that doubt will come to all of us. Perhaps it is part of those thorns and thistles brought in by the fall.

[will227457]

I don't know if never having doubted is lying to themself is a true statement. Depends on what the doubt is about. Is it doubt that the Church is true? Is it doubt that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God? Is it doubt that the words in the Book of Mormon are true? Is it a doubt that our prophets are called of God? have never doubted any of these things. Not once.

if you accept all of this as true then how can you say this:

I have doubted my understanding of certain principles of the Gospel.

you have doubted and are in denial.... through study and prayer we can move past our doubts as I assume you have

[hordak]

doubt leads to questions, question lead to answer, answers are good. ergo Doubt is good

[pam]

will227457;434697]if you accept all of this as true then how can you say this:

I have doubted my understanding of certain principles of the Gospel.

you have doubted and are in denial.... through study and prayer we can move past our doubts as I assume you have

I disagree. Doubting my understanding of something just means I have so much more to learn. Doesn't change my belief or testimony in something that I believe without a doubt to be true such as the gospel, Joseph Smith, etc etc.

For example: Fasting is a principle of the gospel. I could have been taught as a child that we only fast on fast Sunday. But later someone says..we can fast at any time we feel the need. So I start doubting my understanding of fasting. That still does not mean I doubt all that I mentioned earlier.

[will227457]

so you never said to yourself I wonder if the church is true? are the principles that my parents true? blah blah blah?

by defination: Doubt, a status between belief and disbelief, involves uncertainty or distrust or lack of sureness of an alleged fact,

you never got to your knees at ask for personal revelation? I you have does that not express doubt? are you not looking for an anwser to these questions?

I doubt that you know what doubt is......

[beefche]

will, I can only speak to my experience. I was baptized and about 5 years later suffered a "crisis of faith." I doubted. But through that doubt, I received an answer to prayer that to me was miraculous. Since that time (over 15 years ago), I have not doubted.

I think it is entirely possible that someone never doubted. I believe that there are some people who receive such an answer that it erases doubt (that does not rule out the possibility of falling away). I compare my own experience to that of Paul or Joseph (in the same sense that I received an answer and I cannot deny it unless I bring the wrath of God on me). Who says that someone who receives a Paul experience from a young age cannot say he/she has never doubted?

[martybess]

Well, let's think about that a little. Here's what Widtsoe had to say about it in "Evidences and Reconciliations":

Doubt, unless transmuted into inquiry, has no value or worth in the world. Of itself it has never lifted a brick, driven a nail, or turned a furrow. To take pride in being a doubter, without earnestly seeking to remove the doubt, is to reveal shallowness of thought and purpose.

Doubt of the right kind -- that is, honest questioning -- leads to faith. Such doubt impels men to inquiry which always opens the door to truth. The scientist in his laboratory, the explorer in distant parts, the prayerful man upon his knees -- these and all inquirers like them find truth. They learn that some things are known, others are not. They cease to doubt. They settle down with the knowledge they possess to make the forces of nature do their bidding, knowing well that they will be victorious; and that more knowledge will come to them, if sought, to yield new power.

On the other hand the stagnant doubter, one content with himself, unwilling `to make the effort, to pay the price of discovery, inevitably reaches unbelief and miry darkness. His doubts grow like poisonous mushrooms in the dim shadows of his mental and spiritual chambers. At last, blind like the mole in his burrow, he usually substitutes ridicule for reason, and indolence for labor. The simplest truth is worth the sum of all such doubts. He joins the unhappy army of doubters who, weakened by their doubts, have at all periods of human history allowed others, men of faith, to move the world into increasing light.

LM

Oh wow! Awesome quote!!! I think having doubt is having an open mind too. If I believe my father lets say when he tells me blacks (sorry not singling anyone out here) are bad than I become a racist. That might be a bad example but you get the point.

President Kimble doubted his abilities and his calling as prophet.

No peace had yet come, though I had prayed for it almost unceasingly. . . . I turned toward the hills. I had no objective. I wanted only to be alone. I had begun a fast. . . .

My weakness overcame me again. Hot tears came flooding down my cheeks as I made no effort to mop them up. I was accusing myself, and condemning myself and upbraiding myself. I was praying aloud for special blessings from the Lord. I was telling him that I had not asked for this position, that I was incapable of doing the work, that I was imperfect and weak and human, that I was unworthy of so noble a calling, though I had tried hard and my heart had been right. I knew that I must have been at least partly responsible for offenses and misunderstandings which a few people fancied they had suffered at my hands. I realized that I had been petty and small many times. I did not spare myself. A thousand things passed through my mind. Was I called by revelation? . . .

If I could only have the assurance that my call had been inspired most of my other worries would be dissipated. . . .I knew that I must have His acceptance before I could go on. I stumbled up the hill and onto the mountain, as the way became rough. I faltered some as the way became steep. No paths were there to follow; I climbed on and on. Never had I prayed before as I now prayed. What I wanted and felt I must have was an assurance that I was acceptable to the Lord. I told Him that I neither wanted nor was worthy of a vision or appearance of angels or any special manifestation. I wanted only the calm peaceful assurance that my offering was accepted. Never before had I been tortured as I was now being tortured. And the assurance did not come. . . .

I mentally beat myself and chastised myself and accused myself. As the sun came up and moved in the sky I moved with it, lying in the sun, and still I received no relief. I sat up on the cliff and strange thoughts came to me: all this anguish and suffering could be ended so easily from this high cliff and then came to my mind the temptations of the Master when he was tempted to cast Himself down--then I was ashamed for having placed myself in a comparable position and trying to be dramatic. . . . I was filled with remorse because I had permitted myself to place myself . . . in a position comparable, in a small degree, to the position the Saviour found Himself in when He was tempted, and . . . I felt I had cheapened the experiences of the Lord, having compared mine with His. Again I challenged myself and told myself that I was only trying to be dramatic and sorry for myself.

. . . I lay on the cool earth. The thought came that I might take cold, but what did it matter now. There was one great desire, to get a testimony of my calling, to know that it was not human and inspired by ulterior motives, kindly as they might be. How I prayed! How I suffered! How I wept! How I struggled! [Edward L. Kimball and Andrew E. Kimball, Jr., Spencer W. Kimball (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1977), p. 192–95]

-Marty

[pam]

I think in the case of President Kimball, his doubts were all about his own ability. That he felt unworthy to be called to be a Prophet. I could have the same doubts about my ability or my worthiness to be called to a position..but that still doesn't change my testimony of the other things as well.

[pam]

so you never said to yourself I wonder if the church is true? are the principles that my parents true? blah blah blah?

by defination: Doubt, a status between belief and disbelief, involves uncertainty or distrust or lack of sureness of an alleged fact,

you never got to your knees at ask for personal revelation? I you have does that not express doubt? are you not looking for an anwser to these questions?

I doubt that you know what doubt is......

You are attacking my testimony and that's just not cool.

[martybess]

I think in the case of President Kimball, his doubts were all about his own ability. That he felt unworthy to be called to be a Prophet. I could have the same doubts about my ability or my worthiness to be called to a position..but that still doesn't change my testimony of the other things as well.

Yes that had to be the case. Humility can border on doubt I guess in a way. I guess that's way there's so many scriptures about his help for our weaknesses/doubts.

Sorry for so many scriptures. I felt like reading a bunch tonight. Tee Hee.

Psa 4:5 KJV - Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.

Psa 18:2 KJV - The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, [and] my high tower.

Psa 34:22 KJV - The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.

Psa 37:40 KJV - And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.

Psa 73:28 KJV - But [it is] good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.

Psa 91:2 KJV - I will say of the LORD, [He is] my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

Pro 3:5 KJV - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Pro 28:25 KJV - He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat. Ouch..... I don't want the fat part.

Pro 29:25 KJV - The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.

Mosiah 7: 33

33 But if ye will aturn to the Lord with full purpose of heart, and put your trust in him, and serve him with all bdiligence of mind, if ye do this, he will, according to his own will and pleasure, deliver you out of bondage.

-Marty

[Seminarysnoozer]

Sounds like everyone is saying "doubt' is anything shy of being all knowing. Questions arise when one doesn't know something. Guess I am in a state of continual doubt then. Many posts here seem to imply that there is no difference between 'unknown' and 'doubt'. Well, since I don't know everything, then I am in a state of continual doubt ... Is that what everyone is saying? Never thought of it that way. I thought 'doubt' implied something more negative than 'question' like telling yourself it is 'unlikely.' I guess I'll have to change my definition of doubt.

[martybess]

Sounds like everyone is saying "doubt' is anything shy of being all knowing. Questions arise when one doesn't know something. Guess I am in a state of continual doubt then. Many posts here seem to imply that there is no difference between 'unknown' and 'doubt'. Well, since I don't know everything, then I am in a state of continual doubt ... Is that what everyone is saying? Never thought of it that way. I thought 'doubt' implied something more negative than 'question' like telling yourself it is 'unlikely.' I guess I'll have to change my definition of doubt.

To me doubt and not knowing can be different. I can not know something for myself but believe without doubt in faith. But then again maybe this is knowing because in this situation I feel the spirit confirming it to me. I guess????

[Seminarysnoozer]

To me doubt and not knowing can be different. I can not know something for myself but believe without doubt in faith. But then again maybe this is knowing because in this situation I feel the spirit confirming it to me. I guess????

Thanks, glad to hear I am not the only one who leans that way. Exactly my point. Seems everyone is saying that if you have any questions, in other words, you don't know something, then that is doubt. Someone in this thread defined doubt as being in between belief and disbelief, well, for me, unknowing is between those points. Since you can't believe in something you don't understand then I would say everyone doubts all the time if that definition is true because nobody understands everything. I thought doubt was more than having a question, or trying to understand the significance of something. ... I can believe in the science of mathematics and still have questions about my calculus homework and when I arrive at the answer I never had any 'doubt' as to it being right.

[pam]

I think that was the point I was trying to make. I can doubt my understanding in something..but it doesn't take away from the overall belief that I have.

[Misshalfway]

Sounds like everyone is saying "doubt' is anything shy of being all knowing. Questions arise when one doesn't know something. Guess I am in a state of continual doubt then. Many posts here seem to imply that there is no difference between 'unknown' and 'doubt'. Well, since I don't know everything, then I am in a state of continual doubt ... Is that what everyone is saying? Never thought of it that way. I thought 'doubt' implied something more negative than 'question' like telling yourself it is 'unlikely.' I guess I'll have to change my definition of doubt.

I really think that Loudmouth nailed this. It really isn't about doubt itself necessarily. Not knowing is part of the deal with faith. Its the attitude with which we meet the not knowing. If we greet everything with ignorant believing of every wind of doctrine OR if we meet the unproveable with skepticism, we close the door or we blind ourselves to things we may have otherwise been able to comprehend or discern.

I think that is why the scriptures teach us to "be believing". I think that is also why we teach discernment thru the Spirit and the sanctification that makes such possible so much in the church. We CAN know things over time. It takes dedication and commitment and determination in our faith to endure the periods of darkness, tempation, and doubt. Just because a person remains "believing" doesn't mean that they won't ever experience doubt. It is just the way they are choosing to deal with it.

[martybess]

It sounds to me were all on the same page here. We all agree that doubting is not necessarily a bad thing. That not doubting can be a good thing and a bad thing depending.

I think if one doubts than they need to put it to the test. If I doubt the gospel is true than I must either confirm my doubts or confirm it's true or somewhere in between until I receive that witness that it's right or it's wrong. One must put it to the test and be on the path to knowing true or it's not true. That is way the scriptures say "be believing" for that is the way to confirmation. That's the key ingredient as far as the gospel is concerned, why because God has promised it so and he does not lie. In the world however we can be deceived so we MUST DOUBT. It's a shame it has to be so but it is.

-Marty

Edited October 23, 2009 by martybess
typo

[will227457]

You are attacking my testimony and that's just not cool.

don't be so senstive......jeez....I didn't attack your testimony....