superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 "I'm not so sure many "Christian" sects would fit into that narrow description anyway." How narrow is my thinking exactly? "You really, truly, can't grasp why that is not palatable can you? Perhaps you just need to have a tiny bit of faith," Again...how narrow is my thinking? Faith? I'm an atheist. I wouldn't ask you to have non-faith "Many community colleges offer basic courses that introduce people to the religions of the world" Do you think I'm not aware of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 It sounds to me, from the above quote provided by Vort and your responses to my genuine concerns here, that you are angry towards religion in general. It sounds to me from another thread that perhaps you have valid reason to feel angry as it appears religion was literally shoved down your throat. If I am correct in my observation, then I am sorry for your experience. I can understand why science might be a more appealing place to put your trust. It does sound to me from the above quote that you want to be angry and support your anger and have someone to target your anger at, yet you don't want any of us to be offended when you do it. And you think that simply stating that all perspectives will be treated fairly is enough to counter all the accusations that feel, to me anyway, a representation of your personal experience rather than the truthful evaluation of the whole.I actually think I might understand that. Perhaps you just want to be heard and understood like the rest of us. I just think it is a little naive to expect people to accept being a target of your biased characterizations without any objection. And I am sad too that you can't see that I might have a valid reason to question your intensions. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be part of your agenda to care about that.I wish you well in your fact finding mission. I respectfully decline the invitation to be part of your site. I am sad you couldn't address my sincere concerns with understanding rather than defenses and personal attacks. Believe it or not, I really did from the beginning, give you the benefit of the doubt.How could I believe it? As soon as Vort said something your outlook about me changed dramatically. I don't know how much influence he has here but apparently with you it's huge. I did address your concerns. I still see no biased statement to date that I have made here or else where and have yet to have one pointed out to me. I appreciate your concern for me. I really do. But I'm ok I can assure you. I am happy with my life and who I am as I'm sure you are as well. I would never try to take that from you or even Vort for that matter. I do not agree with it and can explain why easily. I've never been asked why by ANY of you however I could do so. Do I hate religion? No. I don't. I hate what it causes ie. hate, terrorism, murder, racism, and the list goes on immeasurably but I also understand that for some it causes understanding, love, brotherhood, and so on. To me it is in the eye of the beholder. You hold religion close to you. So for you it causes the later of the two. I hold science. So to me it shows the primary. Again judging me will get you no where. I do not feel I have attacked anyone who did not attack me first. I came here asking simple questions and was jumped on. I responded after being poked and proded till I couldn't take it no more. Yes I may have went a little on the offense at some point. For that I apologize. But it never would have happened had I been treated fairly. If I would have been told "Hey superdad I find that offensive!" I would have replied "What do you find offensive" upon receipt of that answer I would have took down the offensive material immediately. But that is NOT what I was given was it? NO. So you keep your judgments. I'm happy being me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanh Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 "I'm not so sure many "Christian" sects would fit into that narrow description anyway."How narrow is my thinking exactly?Perhaps I could have worded that better. However, the absence of any reference to you, or your thinking, was intentional. There was no thought on my mind about 'narrow thinking'. I honestly was attempting to provide feedback that by limiting the role, nature, and actions of Jesus to a very specific set of beliefs, many Christian sects are automatically excluded. I had no intent to comment on your thought process. Didn't even cross my mind."You really, truly, can't grasp why that is not palatable can you? Perhaps you just need to have a tiny bit of faith," Again...how narrow is my thinking? Faith? I'm an atheist. I wouldn't ask you to have non-faithI do see where that rhetorical question could be taken as an affront. My appologies. I don't want to offend. Trust that fellow beings of the human species are giving valid feedback, whatever the mode of communication, is, again, not intended in the least to comment on the breadth of your thoughts or thought process. I think it was already addressed regarding the misuse of the word "faith" in the secular sense to mean "trust" rather than religious faith. "Many community colleges offer basic courses that introduce people to the religions of the world"Do you think I'm not aware of this?Honestly, I had absoutely no idea, and there was no way to know one way or another. I thought I was being friendly and offering a real world solution that would fit your needs and make your task much easier. Was this suggestion really truly offensive?Perhaps I'm splitting hairs just a little too finely, but I'm still interested in where I attacked your character. You said character, and I can rely on nothing but the words posted here. If you meant something other than character perhaps we need to clarify that to have an understanding dialog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I said the is the latest of many. As far as my character goes I retract that statement. I apologize. You did not attack my character. Just my intelligence. I was just a little caught up because as I'm sure you see I'm having to defend myself alot here. Not sure why other than my website offended some for a short period of time. Other than that I see no reason to play "kill the atheist" You are absolutely right though. You didn't attack my character. I'm sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) As soon as Vort said something your outlook about me changed dramatically.MHW! I'm surprised and disappointed! I always thought you were more strong-minded than to be so easily swayed by my opinions!I don't know how much influence he has here but apparently with you it's huge.Oh. Wow.Cool!As Spiderman says, "With great power comes...GREAT POWER!!!!"MHW: I am always right, and everything I say is not merely true, but profoundly so.And that goes for any of the rest of you who are so easily swayed by my arguments!He's our hero!He's a sport!No, not Nero!We love VORT! Edited October 27, 2009 by Vort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generally_Me Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 "I'm not so sure many "Christian" sects would fit into that narrow description anyway."How narrow is my thinking exactly?"You really, truly, can't grasp why that is not palatable can you? Perhaps you just need to have a tiny bit of faith," Again...how narrow is my thinking? Faith? I'm an atheist. I wouldn't ask you to have non-faith"Many community colleges offer basic courses that introduce people to the religions of the world"Do you think I'm not aware of this?1--Don't think it's your "thinking" that's narrow, but of my non-LDS but still Christian friends, none of them believe in one or another portion of your description.2--I'm staying out of that one3--If you don't want basic college classes (or if you don't have the time, I understand you are a single parent) you can go to the websites hosted by the religions. LDS.Org, for example. That being said, I don't think you got everything offensive down. The quote "Ask me about your god and I'll tell you why he doesn't exist". I do give you kudos for the quote from the Buddha. I don't disagree with it. I also agree with Phillip K. Dick: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. "I don't understand how Twain's quote about being dead for billions of years prior to life can be construed as anti-God? But then, I approach with a belief in the pre-earth life. A Mormon thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misshalfway Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Well, I didn't think I attacked your character either. I did honestly question your intensions. I am not going to apologize for that. I think it was a fair question considering the content of the site. If you need to get defensive and retort with personal attacks, Ok. And if you think that I am a little Vort groupie, you don't read very well. Personal attacks doesn't look good when he does it and it doesn't look good when you do it. I usually don't get very into these conversations. I am now reminded of why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawazu Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Dear Mr. Vort, I know you are busy person, commanding the social atmosphere of the Internet--but may I take one moment of your time and beg a small request? Please persuade LostSheep to recognize my awesome. Your adoring fan, Kawazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I don't understand how Twain's quote about being dead for billions of years prior to life can be construed as anti-God? But then, I approach with a belief in the pre-earth life. A Mormon thing.That one's not anti-God. It's more of an explanation of why some people aren't bothered by the idea that there's nothing after this life. Personally, I think it's a great quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misshalfway Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 MHW! I'm surprised and disappointed! I always thought you were more strong-minded than to be so easily swayed by my opinions!Oh. Wow.Cool!As Spiderman says, "With great power comes...GREAT POWER!!!!"MHW: I am always right, and everything I say is not merely true, but profoundly so.And that goes for any of the rest of you who are so easily swayed by my arguments!He's our hero!He's a sport!No, not Nero!We love VORT!You know I worship the quicksand you walk on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanh Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Ok, intelligence. Yes, I certainly see where quote #2 you referred to was far more easy to take in that manner than was intended. I don't know you, and I don't pretend to know how intelligent you are. Doesn't really matter a whole lot. I should have done a better job at capturing how I couldn't understand where the disconnect was, and better at elucidating an explanation from you. So, in my case alone, and separate from all others, perhaps the hurts from previous experiences carried over and were attributed to what I posted. Is that an accurate way to say it? Not too big of a deal to me if we can communicate and understand one another. I and many people here completely understand how that can happen. As you pointed out, there is loads of garbage on the net that is meant to do nothing but attack and defame the LDS Church and beliefs. Seems that every week or so there is a new person showing up here on these forums trying to pick a fight and tell LDS how 'clueless' they are. I think some of that knee-jerk reaction to the continual bombardments carried over to you when your post and the initial link appeared. Doesn't make it right. But perhaps we can all at least understand it and learn from it. Are we square with one another yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generally_Me Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 He's our hero!He's a sport!No, not Nero!We love VORT!Oh no.Now I know why you changed your avatar to be a woman.And FTR, I made no presumptions about superdad until I went to Atheist's Corner.As you can see, I am a latecomer to this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Ok, intelligence. Yes, I certainly see where quote #2 you referred to was far more easy to take in that manner than was intended. I don't know you, and I don't pretend to know how intelligent you are. Doesn't really matter a whole lot. I should have done a better job at capturing how I couldn't understand where the disconnect was, and better at elucidating an explanation from you. So, in my case alone, and separate from all others, perhaps the hurts from previous experiences carried over and were attributed to what I posted. Is that an accurate way to say it? Not too big of a deal to me if we can communicate and understand one another.I and many people here completely understand how that can happen. As you pointed out, there is loads of garbage on the net that is meant to do nothing but attack and defame the LDS Church and beliefs. Seems that every week or so there is a new person showing up here on these forums trying to pick a fight and tell LDS how 'clueless' they are. I think some of that knee-jerk reaction to the continual bombardments carried over to you when your post and the initial link appeared. Doesn't make it right. But perhaps we can all at least understand it and learn from it.Are we square with one another yet?Yes we are. And I thank you for making the attempt. Again I am aware of the garbage on the net about you people. That's why I came here. I didn't want to be unfair or biased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Oh no.Now I know why you changed your avatar to be a woman.And FTR, I made no presumptions about superdad until I went to Atheist's Corner.As you can see, I am a latecomer to this one.And let me be the first to congratulate you on that. I will look in to those things you mentioned. However as you can see some don't find those offensive. Merely educational. And again ITS NOT MY ARTWORK. I simply reposted it because I like it. I still have not said ANYTHING offensive to the Mormon or Christian community. Nor do I plan to. IF and I mean IF I EVER did it wouldn't be here. It would be face to face. That's how I operate. Edited October 27, 2009 by superdad69 SO MY WORDS CAN NOT BE TURNED ON ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanh Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Then what specifically do you still need from LDS to accurately understand what they believe. The very first response to you in this thread is what is called the "Thirteen Articles of Faith". That was written by Joseph Smith, the religions founder, when explaining what makes the LDS faith different from other Christian faiths. There isn't much that would be better for use when attempting to delineate what is unique about the LDS version of Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Then what specifically do you still need from LDS to accurately understand what they believe. The very first response to you in this thread is what is called the "Thirteen Articles of Faith". That was written by Joseph Smith, the religions founder, when explaining what makes the LDS faith different from other Christian faiths. There isn't much that would be better for use when attempting to delineate what is unique about the LDS version of Christianity.Not entirely true. I have been given a chapter of a book that says different. You have different customs than most Christians as well. What specifically am I looking for? As I said..not much. I got it all I think. I was really trying to concentrate on the main differences as I have all ready written about standard Christian beliefs. Mormons are way different in my humble opinion now that I have talked to some and have learned ALOT! I really want to thank all those who helped. To the rest of you I hope your God blesses you in his/her own way with the understanding that some people are NOT out to get you or make fun of you. I swear that was not my intention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 just to clarify...the majority of the help I got was through pm's. So if you are reading this trying to get the same understanding I was I will post my conclusion as soon as I'm done with it here so that you can find it easier than I did. After this it's off to the Jehova's Witness sites. I'm sure I'll get bashed there to but I think people deserve to know without going to a church or having to go to college. Some can't afford it. I know. I'm a cop. I see it every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawazu Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi,If you ever have any specific latter-day Saint questions, it is best to start a thread about each individual inquiry. For best results, do not ask all of your questions in the same day. Wait a while between each one. For the basics, it might be useful for you to look at some of the manuals for our classes at church. The lessons give one a general foundation of the principles the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints LDS.org - Prepare a Lesson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Dear Mr. Vort,I know you are busy person, commanding the social atmosphere of the Internet--but may I take one moment of your time and beg a small request?Please persuade LostSheep to recognize my awesome. LostSheep,Kawazu is awesome. Please recognize him/her as an Awesome Person of the Week.Authoritatively and condescendingly,VortThere, that oughta do it. Unless LostSheep isn't one of the mindless sheep that accept everything I say as absolute truth...Nah! Just kiddin'! Everyone believes me! It's because I have so carefully cultivated my online persona that everyone assumes I am a General Authority, or perhaps an author of a best-selling fictionalized LDS historical series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 We don't have to many Churches in Olive Branch that are Mormon but thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdad69 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 For those who care to read what I have written I would like to show you that I meant what I said. Here is it. The basic concept of Mormonism..... - Atheist's Corner if anything seems off please let me know and I will attempt to edit this. To all of yu who helped again I thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttribe Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 For those who care to read what I have written I would like to show you that I meant what I said. Here is it. The basic concept of Mormonism..... - Atheist's Corner if anything seems off please let me know and I will attempt to edit this. To all of yu who helped again I thank you!Not bad...but it should be "Holy", not "Wholly" in the places you have the word.Can you elaborate on this statement - "They are not as strict as standard Christians but hold the same truths" - please? Depending on what you mean, it may not be factually correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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