Why Is It So Hard To Believe?

[Snow]

My son and his two closest cousins are all going on their missions at the same time. My one 19 year old nephew was studying the scriptures at home the other day. His mother says that he put down the scriptures with some exasperation and exclaimed, Boy - why is it so hard to believe?

Do you ever wonder why?

[Snow]

F/u question:

Why is it easier to believe some extraordinary claim if it 3000 years old but harder to swallow if it is happened this afternoon.

Case in point: Jerry Falwell claimed that the 911 terrorism was a punishment by God visited upon a sinful American. It was instantly labeled a fruitcake and condemned across the board, even by many Mormons.

[Kawazu]

My son and his two closest cousins are all going on their missions at the same time. My one 19 year old nephew was studying the scriptures at home the other day. His mother says that he put down the scriptures with some exasperation and exclaimed, Boy - why is it so hard to believe?

Do you ever wonder why?

Hi,

I like your original question with the heartfelt anecdote, so I'm going to answer that one.

I think that the only way for people in mortal flesh to continually believe is for the Savior to be physically present, somewhere on this Earth. It is difficult to have faith in anything which cannot be heard, touched, seen, are scientifically observable in some fashion or another, especially with unaided senses.

It is difficult to believe because Christ is not within arms reach, at the moment.

Thanks for reading.

Sincerely,

Kawazu

Edited October 29, 2009 by Kawazu

[tubaloth]

Why is that when we see a wet paint sign we almost don't believe it. But if somebody tells us that Universe is so big we take there word for it.

[Moksha]

Do you ever wonder why?

Devil's advocate discussions during the middle ages helped many a monk have a greater appreciation of faith.

On many religious forums however, it leads to an endless round of haranguing.

[Misshalfway]

Believing is hard period because we have the veil. Because we have to wrestle with the natural man. Because the authors of these old texts write different and sometimes insuffiently to make their point understandable to a different cultures and citizens of future times.

Believing is hard. It's suppose to be! So what? Get over it and get back to work.

[Snow]

Devil's advocate discussions during the middle ages helped many a monk have a greater appreciation of faith.

On many religious forums however, it leads to an endless round of haranguing.

Not haranguing here. It's a sincere question. There are extraordinary claims that are rationally hard to swallow. For the sake of argument, let's say they are legit, but tough to believe. Why no do it, design it all so that it is less outrageous, more palatable and easier to accept.

Take, for example, the miraculous claims of the LDS Church that have occurred in the last 100 years. There are miraculous claims to be sure but they are a lot less spectacular and out there than the claims from the OT.

[Gatorman]

Oh, that is actually an easy question to answer Snow. Why not make it easy to understand? Why not make it all simple and wrapped in a bow, basically? Because, then, it would not take faith to believe in what doesn't match up with what men teach us. It would not take faith to overcome our inability to understand parts. And, without faith......

[Elphaba]

Why is that when we see a wet paint sign we almost don't believe it.

I believe them!

But if somebody tells us that Universe is so big we take there word for it.

We believe it because science has proven it.

Elphaba

Edited October 29, 2009 by Elphaba

[hordak]

F/u question:

Why is it easier to believe some extraordinary claim if it 3000 years old but harder to swallow if it is happened this afternoon.

Case in point: Jerry Falwell claimed that the 911 terrorism was a punishment by God visited upon a sinful American. It was instantly labeled a fruitcake and condemned across the board, even by many Mormons.

More knowledge now and historical revision. It isn't unique to religion.

[Seminarysnoozer]

My son and his two closest cousins are all going on their missions at the same time. My one 19 year old nephew was studying the scriptures at home the other day. His mother says that he put down the scriptures with some exasperation and exclaimed, Boy - why is it so hard to believe?

Do you ever wonder why?

Congratulations for your son and his cousins. :)

[bytor2112]

It's hard to believe because it requires adherence and accountability and that doesn't set well with those who prefer to live and let live.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Oftentimes things that take more effort are more meaningful.

[unixknight]

It's hard to believe because it requires adherence and accountability and that doesn't set well with those who prefer to live and let live.

^This.

For if the Church is true then truth is objective, not subjective. That's anathema to the moral relativism that we see everywhere in our world today.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think its also harder to believe when one has a hard time distinguishing between beliefs and knowledge. Maybe, in part, this is why missionaries go at 19, teenagers tend to be more emphatic about their beliefs, as if it really is knowledge. At least, that's what my teenagers do, add two cups of drama to everything.

[Moksha]

There are miraculous claims to be sure but they are a lot less spectacular and out there than the claims from the OT.

What, you don't consider the locating of all those keys lost by members to be significantly miraculous?

What about the Bigfoot (Cain) conversation as told in The Miracle of Forgiveness, or the sighting of both Elvis and the three Nephites at the Iceberg Drive-In of Draper, Utah?

:)

[prisonchaplain]

F/u question:

Why is it easier to believe some extraordinary claim if it 3000 years old but harder to swallow if it is happened this afternoon.

Case in point: Jerry Falwell claimed that the 911 terrorism was a punishment by God visited upon a sinful American. It was instantly labeled a fruitcake and condemned across the board, even by many Mormons.

The 3000 year-old story is about THEM. Jerry was speaking about us!

[Snow]

It's hard to believe because it requires adherence and accountability and that doesn't set well with those who prefer to live and let live.

Well - okay but that's not exactly what I (or my nephew I think) as thinking about.

I don't think that it is too hard to believe that you should live a disciplined, moral, thoughtful, thankful, etc life. Sure, you could question the rigorous requirement to be monogamous or to not consume coffee or chase the dragon but even if you wonder if the command actually comes from God, it's pretty easy to see the value in living a disciplined and moral life.

The part that I think is harder to appreciate or accept are the supernatural or miraculous stories from the distant past. It requires a real leap of faith to buy in.

Consequently, you can see from the last 80 years of the restoration that there is a whole lot less prevalence of the extraordinary and miraculous than in the first 80 years. I think that as a Church and a people, there is the same tendency generally that you/some see in me specifically.

[Snow]

I think its also harder to believe when one has a hard time distinguishing between beliefs and knowledge. Maybe, in part, this is why missionaries go at 19, teenagers tend to be more emphatic about their beliefs, as if it really is knowledge. At least, that's what my teenagers do, add two cups of drama to everything.

I wonder how I would present things at my age as a missionary compared to how I presented them as a 20-year old. I do recall one conversation with an Evangelical about the Miracle of the Gulls. He asked me about it and I remember using words like "supposedly" to explain it... but on balance, I presented things straight forward and literally.

Today I'd be saying a whole lot more of "allegedly" and "if the accounts are to be believed."

It must be a natural aging of the optic nerve that turns the black and the way to nuanced shades of grey.

[Moksha]

Snow, I never worry about nuancing shades of gray. We all fall within the 256 or more shades. The fact that the California Gull exists at all is miraculous enough, together with their millenia old migratory path to the marshes of the Great Salt Lake as well as the abundance of insects to eat in the area. Am I deviating from the established shade of gray in thinking this? Maybe, but it is still gray.

[ozzy]

I think there are 2 key reasons why it is so difficult to believe. The first is that it is so simple. Ultimately the principle is that we must do our best to live righteously, and rely on the Lord to make up the rest through his sacrifice. Thing is, we find relying on others hard because there are so few in the world today that we could rely on.

The second reason that it is so difficult to believe is because we don't want to. In many of our lives (mine included), there are things that we feel or know that we should change about ourselves because it goes against the teachings of God. While knowing this, we would rather that the teachings were wrong, so we didn't have to feel guilt. In other words, the gospel asks us to change ourselves and become better by setting aside things that sometimes we may not want to set aside.

Now if we are talking about historical events in the bible as opposed to the gospel itself, it is difficult to believe because if we do, then we must believe the rest of the Bible. If we do that then the second reason I mentioned comes into play again.

The only other reason I can think is that we are taught to rely more on mans knowledge of science to explain things than on things like the spirit or on God. This truth comes more into play as we understand more of science. We need to remember though that God is capable of all things and understands science perfectly. That is why miracles are possible. That is why the Bible can be true and believable.

Ways to help us believe that the atonement and the accounts of the scriptures are possible have been provided for us. They are to study the scriptures, pray for knowledge, and live righteously so that the spirit may bear witness to us that these things are true. I know that these things work for 2 reasons. First, there are words from the scriptures and the modern day prophets that tell us so. I think a good scripture about scripture study is Deuteronomy 17:19-20.

19 And it shall be with him, and he shall aread therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:

20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

This effectively promises the king and us that if we study the scriptures, we will keep the commandments. How is this possible if we don't believe? It isn't. But if we read them and apply them, then we will see their truth and partake of the blessings contained therein.

James 1:5-6 is excellent for why prayer is beneficial to our believing.

5If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

If we ask the Lord with true faith, then he will help us believe. But we must remember that if we don't ask in faith, we won't recognize that he has answered us. And then we will feel that he hasn't and step away from Him.

These things accompanied by living righteously will help us come closer to God, and will help us believe. This brings us to the second reason that I know this is how we can come to believe with all of our hearts that the accounts are true, that the gospel is true, and that these things are the way to salvation. I know them because I have tested them myself. I relied on the feelings of the Spirit rather than the eyes of science to determine truth for me for God is the author of truth and there is no better person or thing to turn to for it. He testified to me that these things are true. As such I believe and hope that all may believe.

I hope this is helpful,

Ozzy

[Snow]

Now if we are talking about historical events in the bible as opposed to the gospel itself, it is difficult to believe because if we do, then we must believe the rest of the Bible. If we do that then the second reason I mentioned comes into play again.

Not for me. I don't have any heartburn with the doctrine or obedience requirements. It the extraordinary supposedly historical events that grate.

The only other reason I can think is that we are taught to rely more on mans knowledge of science to explain things than on things like the spirit or on God.

I don't have any problem relying on God. The main difficulty rests on relying on the anonymous writings of who knows who from 3000 years ago. If God said it was true, I'd be the first one on board.

[prisonchaplain]

Snow, I forget how old the original Book of Mormon was. It parallels the times of the Bible, doesn't it. Joseph Smith's translation is only 170+ years old, but the original manuscripts were written long ago. So, does your difficulty with the biblical writings also extend to the BoM? If so, is there a sense in which the D&C is the most reliable portion of the canon, simply because it is by far the most recent?

[Snow]

Snow, I forget how old the original Book of Mormon was. It parallels the times of the Bible, doesn't it. Joseph Smith's translation is only 170+ years old, but the original manuscripts were written long ago. So, does your difficulty with the biblical writings also extend to the BoM? If so, is there a sense in which the D&C is the most reliable portion of the canon, simply because it is by far the most recent?

1. I have not, to date, made it a point to analyze or consider the BoM like I have the OT. I understand that it likely presents some of the same difficulties but haven't gotten to it yet.

2. I dispute anyone to demonstrate that "most correct of any book" refers to the Book of Mormon as a history book. I've not seen a compelling reason to believe that the original BoM authors were particularly accurate historians.

3. In it's ability to convey true doctrine, I do not know that the D&C is superior to the BoM.

[Snow]

I'm not sure what you mean by "I don't have any problem relying on God." Does this mean you understand what the Spirit is, that you know how to be guided by it? If so, you should have no problems accepting the vast majority of the scriptures as fact.

Interesting thought. The Spirit is free to testify and inspire so long as it agrees with what you want it to.... can't say that I agree though.