LDS and Arminian Opposition to Eternal Security

[HillCumorahCC]

There is no licence to sin. There is no place where one transcends the need to obey. There are always consequences. And in this verse, apparently the consequences will be on earth.

I see a major and crucial difference. It is the same difference no matter where in the process obedience is discussed.

"And in this verse, apparently the consequences will be on earth."

Does it make sense to you that they can committ any sin, except murder, and only be punished in mortality, but afterwards receive a fullness of exaltation?

If it does, please explain to me why it makes sense to you.

Thanks.

[Misshalfway]

You know. I think I would need to think about that. I am not sure I understand why God would deal with it that way.

What do you understand about it? How does that bridge that gap between LDS ideas and saved by grace? I am not sure why you think this verse closes the gap.

[Vort]

There is no place where one transcends the need to obey.

Are you sure? Even if the bishop asks you to sign over your home? :)

[HillCumorahCC]

You know. I think I would need to think about that. I am not sure I understand why God would deal with it that way.

What do you understand about it? How does that bridge that gap between LDS ideas and saved by grace? I am not sure why you think this verse closes the gap.

I don't know that it "bridges the gap", but I think it is a teaching with enough similarities to "Once Saved Always Saved" that church members would be advised not to be overly critical of that particular belief in the manner in which Traveler was in an earlier post.

[Misshalfway]

Are you sure? Even if the bishop asks you to sign over your home? :)

[Misshalfway]

I don't know that it "bridges the gap", but I think it is a teaching with enough similarities to "Once Saved Always Saved" that church members would be advised not to be overly critical of that particular belief in the manner in which Traveler was in an earlier post.

Similarities, yes. Bridge the gap? Not quite.

[Guest CedarCityCougar]

JOH 6:28-29*Then they asked Him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” Edited May 10, 2010 by CedarCityCougar

[Hemidakota]

I moved this thread from Christian beliefs to LDS gospel because it addresses both a Christian denominational stance, and queries about how LDS teaching agrees and compares. (Plus, it was dying in the Christian beliefs section!)

Concerning the security of the believer (re: salvation) my church teaches that:

1. Salvation depends on a living relationship with Christ (John 15:6)

2. The Bible calls us to holiness (1 Peter 1:16, Hebrews 12:14)

3. Man may have his part taken out of the Book of Life (Revelation 22:19)

4. One who believes for awhile can fall away (Luke 8:13)

5. AND SO DISAPPROVES OF THE UNCONDITIONAL SECURITY POSITION WHICH HOLDS THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A PERSON ONCE SAVED TO BE LOST. (See http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4178_security.pdf for more information)

I've said in previous strings that Joseph Smith's teachings about the necessity of good works, obedience to covenants etc., in order to secure salvation (entry into the Celestial Kingdom?) seems to be motivated significantly by a reaction against the unconditional security position. THOUGHTS?

Adding here that was left out is the saving ordinance needed to enter at the lowest level of the Celestial Kingdom – namely baptism.

There is no real security with anyone entering the Celestial Glory exception is those who enter the last covenant of fullness of the priesthood. Once proven and accepted by the Holy Ghost, he or she is presented before the Godhead as receiving the final act in this life. There is no escapable out of this when this is done but by perdition. Anyone enters this realm is lost for ever. There is no way back for them. If they fail to repent, they will pay for there own sins and not by the Savior. When repentance is complete, they will inherit their realm of glory as called.

Salvation by grace is for all; even the wicked will at least enter in the lesser kingdom if they announced that Jesus is the Christ.

So in conclusion, no one that I am aware outside what I have mentioned is safe with a secured position.

[Moksha]

There is no place where one transcends the need to obey.

No place, eh? Sounds like a good geographical Nuremberg defense.

[Vanhin]

What HillCumorahCC and Hemidakota mentioned is my belief as well. When we have received all the ordinances of salvation, and been true to them and to our testimony of Christ, we will be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Then, only blasphemy against the Holy Ghost will keep us from our exaltation. Yes, we will suffer for all sins that we did not repent of, but after that we will enter our exaltation.

Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is committed when someone who has had their calling and election made sure sheds (or is willing to shed) innocent blood, or be willing to crucify the Lord again if they could, thereby rejecting Christ and His atonement. Basically sons of perdition reject knowingly salvation, after having received it. Such people cannot be saved, because they don't want it.

Regards,

Vanhin