john doe Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 From what I have read it seems to me that the OP is a hit-and-run poster. They have never replied to a thread they have started, or even posted twice in a thread. It would be good if this person would actually clarify their thoughts when asked. If not, then we need to stop replying to unknown motives and ideas. This person probably starts these controversial threads and then sits back and laughs at the way they go off on tangents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanhin Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Please do not take exception to the term "agressive" as I didn't mean it to have have negative connotations. As Dravin accurately noted, Jews do not proselytize at all to other religions, so to me agressive means "out there" "obvious" "in the open" "pro active" "visible" etc...All the best.HERSHELOh I hear you. It's just that I have encountered the misconception that we are "aggressive" in our approach, in both anti-Mormon tracts and people I've met as a missionary. We are generally "mellow", not just here. :) That doesn't mean we don't have a few oddballs though, and I'm sure you will meet a couple of those here as well.Sincrely,Vanhin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 LDS folk are known to be a bit agressive in their approachHow so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 How so?*clears throat*Please do not take exception to the term "agressive" as I didn't mean it to have have negative connotations. As Dravin accurately noted, Jews do not proselytize at all to other religions, so to me agressive means "out there" "obvious" "in the open" "pro active" "visible" etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choseph Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 No, those mean different things. Every human being is a child of the heavenly Father. Being a son of Abraham is different. But I agree, the "sons of Abraham" thing is not particularly common LDS parlance. A more likely thing would be to say that they are "of the Abrahamic covenant"or some such expression. "Sons of Abraham" sounds very Muslim to me, kind of like "people of the book".I just meant to say that our faiths have a common beginning and was being tounge-in-cheek b/c of the song ("Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had Father Abraham") http://www.lds.net/forums/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm still new to a lot of this and don't want to seemingly support a false religion by participating in their worship but I also don't want to isolate myself from the world where I cease to be "salt and light".Choseph S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEternalSonata Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) Do you feel its your duty to tell people who believe differently than you that they are wrong in their own place of worship? If so, I'd disagree. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.If you do feel that way, my question is this:How would you feel if someone with different beliefs came to an LDS chapel wedding and started preaching or speaking out about LDS? Edited December 15, 2009 by OneEternalSonata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Choseph, here's the answer to your question: LDS Article of Faith #11: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. Yes, we may attend Jewish weddings (I've attended several Catholic and Born Again weddings, baptisms, etc. and even attended a Buddhist wedding). But, we need to afford them the respect of letting them worship what they may by not proselyting in these events. Of course, we don't worship Buddha in these events either. We just lend our support for our friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEternalSonata Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 We were on the same wavelength there, anatess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekabalist Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I just meant to say that our faiths have a common beginning and was being tounge-in-cheek b/c of the song ("Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had Father Abraham") http://www.lds.net/forums/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm still new to a lot of this and don't want to seemingly support a false religion by participating in their worship but I also don't want to isolate myself from the world where I cease to be "salt and light".Choseph S.I find it extremely offensive to hear you say that Judaism is a false religion. Which religion do you think Jesus and all his ancestors were brought up in and worshipped in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanhin Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Okay no more feeding the troll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I find it extremely offensive to hear you say that Judaism is a false religion. Which religion do you think Jesus and all his ancestors were brought up in and worshipped in? I'm not even Jewish and I find it extremely offensive.And ignorant./me stops feeding the troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Okay no more feeding the troll...AHH and I was going for the biggie that there is a Jewish Wedding in the New Testament. Not to mention the Parable of the 10 virgins and was wondering would he turn down an invite to Jesus' wedding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I find it extremely offensive to hear you say that Judaism is a false religion. Which religion do you think Jesus and all his ancestors were brought up in and worshipped in? The interesting thing is that fundamentally Christianity is (at least from the LDS perspective) a continuation (better word possible?) of Judaism. Not something completely seperate and apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I just meant to say that our faiths have a common beginning and was being tounge-in-cheek b/c of the song ("Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had Father Abraham") http://www.lds.net/forums/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm still new to a lot of this and don't want to seemingly support a false religion by participating in their worship but I also don't want to isolate myself from the world where I cease to be "salt and light".Choseph S. Just curious, but where do you come from where the LDS talk like that? Because your lingo is not typical of LDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 the missionaries here were encouraged to participate in bible studies and such at the churches in town... as long as it did not interfere with their (the missionaries) church services and they did not offend by going in and preaching in others houses of worship.... it was simply getting to know the community. it seemed very odd to me at first but the missionaries have been pulled from our area (for unrelated reasons) and several ppl have approached my family asking if we'd like to come to their bible studies, talk of how the missionaries used to come and that they would like to visit our church some time. seems to have been a successful venture. can't say the church thinks they have "supported a false religion by participating in their worship". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afinefellow718 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 From what I have read it seems to me that the OP is a hit-and-run poster. They have never replied to a thread they have started, or even posted twice in a thread. It would be good if this person would actually clarify their thoughts when asked. If not, then we need to stop replying to unknown motives and ideas. This person probably starts these controversial threads and then sits back and laughs at the way they go off on tangents.John,I defer to your vastly superior knowledge on this issue as I've come here quite by accident. I was looking for photography related sites for work purposes and came accross the blog entry via a Google Alert. That aside, at the end of the day, something good came out of this possible "hit and run poster". We all broadened our circle of friends and aquaintances, demonstrated ourselves to be openminded, desireous of obtaining knowledge and having a tolerance for people with disparate views.I don't know about you all, but I come away enriched!All the best.HERSHEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 John,I defer to your vastly superior knowledge on this issue as I've come here quite by accident. I was looking for photography related sites for work purposes and came accross the blog entry via a Google Alert. That aside, at the end of the day, something good came out of this possible "hit and run poster". We all broadened our circle of friends and aquaintances, demonstrated ourselves to be openminded, desireous of obtaining knowledge and having a tolerance for people with disparate views.I don't know about you all, but I come away enriched!All the best.HERSHELI'm glad you're not scared away. Having only stumbled across this entry, and not having been on this site before or knowing any of us, it would be easy to get turned off quickly. I hope you know (and I think it's probably been made abundantly clear in the rest of this thread) that not all (or even most) Mormons think or act the way the OP has.Otherwise, welcome to the board! I was just thinking a few weeks ago, before thekabalist started posting, that we have lots of people here from various Christian denominations, we even have atheists, but I realized that we didn't have any Jewish members. I'm excited now to have two, and I hope that we can all learn a lot from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 There was this movie with Edward Norton and Ben Stiller "Keeping the Faith". Norton and Stiller were childhood best friends and Norton became a Catholic priest and Stiller a rabbi and they both built a community center with dancing and karaoke. It was awesome. I liked the way Norton shows up at Stiller's (okay, I don't know what it is called in Judaism, surely not mass) and also Stiller shows up at Norton's mass - especially since Stiller still wears his cap when he shows up at the Catholic church and Norton still wears his white collar at the Jewish thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afinefellow718 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Speaking of Light and in keeping with the exchange of interesting information, here's something that is timely (5 night of Chanukah) and even most Jews are not aware of: It’s passed down to us from the most ancient Kabbalists that the 5th night of Chanukah is the darkest night of the year. Therefore when someone lights the 5th candle (tonight) he should pray for all the souls that have fallen into the darkest places. And in the merit of this good deed tonight of lighting the 5th candle with this good intention, we ask that the the Allmighty in turn should enlighten even the most darkened souls. All the best. HERSHEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afinefellow718 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm glad you're not scared away. Having only stumbled across this entry, and not having been on this site before or knowing any of us, it would be easy to get turned off quickly. I hope you know (and I think it's probably been made abundantly clear in the rest of this thread) that not all (or even most) Mormons think or act the way the OP has.Otherwise, welcome to the board! I was just thinking a few weeks ago, before thekabalist started posting, that we have lots of people here from various Christian denominations, we even have atheists, but I realized that we didn't have any Jewish members. I'm excited now to have two, and I hope that we can all learn a lot from each other.I'm honored to be here and am pleased to make any positive contribution that I can. Thisbit of back and forth today certainly softened an otherwise crazy NYC day at work, lol!HERSHEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I hate to fight against the common current- and I mean no disrespect to anyone- but... I just read over this tread. I don't think Choseph acted like a troll- more like someone who didn't know what to do in the situation he was presented (being invited to a Jewish wedding). Possibly not used to dealing with the religious ceremonies of other faiths. I don't think he intended any undue disrespect when he called Judaism a 'false religion', or mentioned proselyting at the wedding. I think what we have is someone lacking in tact (and possibly a principled understanding of the 11th Article of Faith) who stumbled upon a particularly sensitive subject. Choseph has been tactless in his approach, and has offended our two Jewish friends, but I don't think he deserves being treated like a troll- especially since he's posted on 3 other threads... And on that note... Welcome to the site, afinefellow718! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 The OP is free to prove me(and others) wrong by actually participating in threads he/she starts, but as yet has chosen not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceinthedark Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 There was this movie with Edward Norton and Ben Stiller "Keeping the Faith". Norton and Stiller were childhood best friends and Norton became a Catholic priest and Stiller a rabbi and they both built a community center with dancing and karaoke. It was awesome.I liked the way Norton shows up at Stiller's (okay, I don't know what it is called in Judaism, surely not mass) and also Stiller shows up at Norton's mass - especially since Stiller still wears his cap when he shows up at the Catholic church and Norton still wears his white collar at the Jewish thing...One of my favorites!!!! Can't we all just get along? I wish we could all be like this to our fellow brothers and sister of other faiths. With less defensivnes on all sides we could probably be a much more peaceful world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekabalist Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 John,I defer to your vastly superior knowledge on this issue as I've come here quite by accident. I was looking for photography related sites for work purposes and came accross the blog entry via a Google Alert. That aside, at the end of the day, something good came out of this possible "hit and run poster". We all broadened our circle of friends and aquaintances, demonstrated ourselves to be openminded, desireous of obtaining knowledge and having a tolerance for people with disparate views.I don't know about you all, but I come away enriched!All the best.HERSHELAh yes and this reminds me of one of the greatest teachings of chassidut. Well at least one of the greatest in my opinion: that everything that is dark conceals light. Every evil that we perceive we must strive to find the concealed good in it. If we can't because darkness is too thick then it's because it's actually such a high spiritual good that we cannot grasp it with our current understanding. Thank you for being the one who has noticed the great good that came from this evil. I too saw that among the evil treatment I received at the other forum for being Jewish and willing to exchange religious information with the LDS, there came great good as I was able to make new friends. :)Chag sameach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choseph Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 The interesting thing is that fundamentally Christianity is (at least from the LDS perspective) a continuation (better word possible?) of Judaism. Not something completely seperate and apart.Sorry, not trying to be offensive. Perhaps I should have said, "incomplete" instead of "false". Again, I apologize.Choseph S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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