Music- will it keep you out of exaltation?

[apollyon]

Aight- so, the question is this- will certain music choices derail you in such a fashion as to keep you from becoming exalted? A point to ponder concerning this is that this is not to say that music is bad, just that it might not be good either, and as we must be "anxiously engaged in a good cause", perhaps this is detrimental to our eternal life. Thoughts, comments?

[Moksha]

Music that makes your heart glad and your toes tap, sounds rather redeeming. It would only make sense to eschew such music if, due to an unfortunate accident, an elongated piece of wood was accidentally lodged in some bodily cavity making such an activity painful.

:)

[RanMan]

Good music leads you toward enlightenment, bad music leads you away. While it might not keep you out by itself, it makes it harder to do what you need to to gain exaltation.

:)

[hordak]

No.

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

A rule in my house if for my children to clean their rooms. This is the "great commandment" and rewarded with a prize.

However because there are distractions i have given extra guidelines to help them keep this commandment. No tv or play time until your room is clean.

Will playing keep them from their prize, it tv bad? No unless it keeps them from doing what they are supposed to do.

[MichaelCraig]

Dear hordak. Will you please come to my house and get my 18 yr old son to clean his room like you do your kids? I'll pay you. :)

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

Dear hordak. Will you please come to my house and get my 18 yr old son to clean his room like you do your kids? I'll pay you. :)

Why not pay your son instead?

[Guest mormonmusic]

I'm a music addict (I'm exaggerating, but I LOVE music) and so does my father, mother, brother, sister etcetera. Listening, performing, composing -- I think music CAN contribute to losing your exhaltation if you're not careful.

1. Lyrics can act as anti-scripture, making your spirit lust after unseemly things. If you listen to some artists CD's long enough, you can start thinking about life in terms of sex, violence and other things that can ultimately direct your behavior. BoM says we have to watch our thoughts or we will surely perish. Music is one conduit of good, or "evil" to our thoughts.

2. Many musicians, including one of my siblings, was exposed to all kinds of bad stuff when they became a touring, performing musician. Alchohol, drugs, and groupies who show up for sex every time you hit a particular town. It was part of the culture among younger bands one of my siblings told me.

3. Music is like any good thing -- it can become addictive and distract you from more worthy causes. To be a good musician takes a lot of practice, and a lot of time, and sometimes, even a lot of money. At different times in my life, my love of music, rehearsing and performing has detracted from other worthier pursuits.

However, you can use it for good.

A woman in our Ward teaches piano to all the underpriviledged kids in the Church. Her prices are cheap -- she does it as an act of service to share her talent of music, and to help these kids become choirists, primary and Ward pianists, etcetera. They learn hymns, Christmas carols and popular LDS music etcetera.

The kids get the lyrics of Zion in their minds and leave the lessons singing the songs.

And I don't know how many times music has lifted me out of an unhappy situation.

Also, the Old Testament says a righteous song is a prayer to the Lord -- and music will often invite the Spirit.

[MichaelCraig]

Tried that. Didn't work. It would take a 12 man crew about a week working 10 hr shifts to do the job. If there was a way to protect the rest of the house I would ask one of my old Marine buddies to tunnel in and strategically set up several pounds of C4 and just blast that corner of the house away and then rebuild but that idea didn't work out either. Any other suggestions?

[Guest mormonmusic]

Wait until he comes at you wanting something -- an expensive item or something really important to him.

Attach cleaning his room to it -- he's got to meet a minimum standard of cleanliness for a period of time before he gets it.

Come up with a checklist of what clean means, and he's got to put it on his wall. You'll help him clean it up the first time, and he's gotta commit to regular "inspections". Stick to your guns.

When he does clean it, use positive reinforcement by giving some kind of unexpected positive consequences like his favorite meal, a small item he really likes, or verbal praise. Make sure you point out that the positive consequence is a direct result of his room meeting the minimum standard.

If he gets some kind of allowance, and then consider a new rule. He has to keep his room clean. If he doesn't, and you have to clean it, then you get to spend it on whatever you want. I do this with my daugther. She's supposed to clean the car and gets paid for doing it. But often she doesn't bother, so the rule is that if I have to do it, I go out to dinner on part of her next month's allowance.

The combination of reward for doing the job, and punishment for NOT doing it is a powerful combination.

[hordak]

Why not pay your son instead?

shhhh. Your blowing my job opportunity:)

[hordak]

Dear hordak. Will you please come to my house and get my 18 yr old son to clean his room like you do your kids? I'll pay you. :)

He probably wont work for cookies or stickers will he?:)

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

Tried that. Didn't work. It would take a 12 man crew about a week working 10 hr shifts to do the job. If there was a way to protect the rest of the house I would ask one of my old Marine buddies to tunnel in and strategically set up several pounds of C4 and just blast that corner of the house away and then rebuild but that idea didn't work out either. Any other suggestions?

Tell him if he doesn't, you'll do it, and he'll have to pay you?

[Wingnut]

Eighteen years old...is he still in high school? If not, boot him.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Tell him if he doesn't, you'll do it, and he'll have to pay you?

Yep -- I've done this regarding general cleaning that others have agreed to do in my house. I'd see stuff left undone for days upon days. I'd see red. After a decade of it, you get might tired of living in a mess.

Then I thought -- how can I actually make it so I'm actually OK with people not doing their jobs? The answer? Get paid to do it!

Although I'm the primary breadwinner in my household, this works because we've created a strict budgeting culture where we keep track of everything we spend and have financial goals. So, if I go over on my own personal spending budget, I hear about it. So does anyone else who goes over their own budget. So I can't just spend willy nilly or the whole culture of frugality and financial responsiblity will die.

So at family council, I unveiled a schedule of payments for work I had to do for others. People would pay me to do these jobs out of their allowance if I found the job neglected. Since we were on a strict budget, this was a breath of fresh air as it meant I had more money to spend on things. Also, this was a huge punishment to the person who neglected the job, due to the strict budgeting culture in the family. They would find themselves short on money for personal items that bring so much fun to life.

If it was a job my wife was supposed to do, we charged it to the housekeeping category, which she hates because she wants to achieve the budget savings amount.

I know this sounds like a dictatorship, but in my own defense, I'd tried every other reasonable means -- reasoning, scriptures, pleading, begging, positive reinforcement, hugs, praise, nagging, moaning, complaining, prayer, withholdign priviledges, repeated agenda items on it in Family Council, and nothing ever stuck.

So, if I see someting undone beyond the period the person has the priviledge of doing it, I do it and get paid.

There have actually been times when I felt disappointed they did the job, cuz I was looking forward to the revenue....

[pam]

Actually I have thought about doing something like this. All my kids are at least 18. I still pay all the utilities etc..yet I'm the one unemployed while they are.

So I have thought about setting up something that for everything I do for them, which includes washing dishes they use, any laundry, cleaning their bathroom..they owe me. And I won't be working for minimum wage either. Either that or they find some place to live where they don't have to pay for each little job. Just the way it is.

[hordak]

Actually I have thought about doing something like this. All my kids are at least 18. I still pay all the utilities etc..yet I'm the one unemployed while they are.

So I have thought about setting up something that for everything I do for them, which includes washing dishes they use, any laundry, cleaning their bathroom..they owe me. And I won't be working for minimum wage either. Either that or they find some place to live where they don't have to pay for each little job. Just the way it is.

So under that tough gingerbread exterior you're just soft cookie dough. I knew it.

[Vort]

Aight- so, the question is this- will certain music choices derail you in such a fashion as to keep you from becoming exalted? A point to ponder concerning this is that this is not to say that music is bad, just that it might not be good either, and as we must be "anxiously engaged in a good cause", perhaps this is detrimental to our eternal life. Thoughts, comments?

Exaltation is not a multiple-choice exam that we take here and then find out the results after we die. The Lord cannot save us in our sins. If we give up our sins, he can save us.

As long as we insist on following sectarian Christianity and Islam in viewing the judgment of God as an exercise of whether we've scored enough points to qualify, we will forever miss the meaning of what's going on.

Does the music bring you closer to God and edify your spirit? Then it helps your cause. Does it do the opposite? Then it hurts your cause.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Pam:

Actually I have thought about doing something like this. All my kids are at least 18. I still pay all the utilities etc..yet I'm the one unemployed while they are.

So I have thought about setting up something that for everything I do for them, which includes washing dishes they use, any laundry, cleaning their bathroom..they owe me. And I won't be working for minimum wage either. Either that or they find some place to live where they don't have to pay for each little job. Just the way it is.

This is a classic example of getting off-topic, but...

Pam: I like the idea, but I see an implementation problem. In my case, my kids are all young so I control the bank accounts, the credit cards and such, so I can just go out and spend, and deduct from their allowance. They have no access to the money unless I give it to them.

In your case, they are adults and have jobs, and all the money is probably under their control, so they can just decide not to pay you.

My only suggestion would be to start charging refundable rent. They have to pay you this up front at the beginning of the first month. If they don't like it, then they can move out and find their own place. Make sure the refundable rent is a good deal compared to other options they have if you want them at home.

Then, through the month, you keep track of the jobs you have to do for them. That total amount is how much they have to pay you for their next months' rent. If they refuse to pay it, then you put them on notice they have to move out, and take the amount they owe you out the residual amount still on hand.

It might cause hard feelings, but if it's a chronic problem, and all other nice methods have failed, I always believing in being tough about it.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Does the music bring you closer to God and edify your spirit? Then it helps your cause. Does it do the opposite? Then it hurts your cause.

My mission president lifted the Mormon Tab-only rule on my mission. We were allowed to listen to anything we wanted provided we could pray with it on. It had to be uplifting and edifying.

Now, some missionaries told me "I feel the Spirit when I listen to AC/DC", but most of the missionaries were pretty good about using wise judgment. I spent my whole mission listening to Afterglow, Bryce Neubert, and other LDS pop artists, as well as Montovani and other orchestral stuff. And it did uplift me. And I also learned to appreciate Mormon Tabernacle Choir stuff too.

Songs with bad lyrics, repetitive chants and beats don't uplift the spirit in my view. Neither does heavy metal with screaming lyrics about death, drugs, sex etcetera...

[pam]

This is a classic example of getting off-topic, but...

You're right..it's totally off topic..but an interesting subject.

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

Songs with bad lyrics, repetitive chants and beats don't uplift the spirit in my view. Neither does heavy metal with screaming lyrics about death, drugs, sex etcetera...

Not that I don't see your point, but... you can't at all generalize metal as only that. Metal is nearly as diverse as music itself. I'd know, I'm obsessed with the stuff and am currently listening to some as I write this. I'd definitely agree that some of it's not good at all, and I stay away from that. But there's also plenty of perfectly okay and even uplifting themes. One example would be about overcoming the oppression and staying true to what you believe in and what you know is right. Doesn't sound all that bad to me. Now maybe you don't have anything against it, but I had to say something.