'Rain Man' has been a missionary his whole life

[theoriginalavatar]

My wife is an Autism specialist, and I agree it would be extremely traumatic to force an autistic child to be baptized. It is also kind of unnecessary. Do we really think someone who can only reason on a 5 year old level needs to be baptized, regardless of actual age?

I agree with you, although I feel pressed to point out that experts determined that he did NOT have autism.

[OmahaLDS]

I agree with you, although I feel pressed to point out that experts determined that he did NOT have autism.

I was not referring to Mr. Peeks. Some autistic children are very sensitive to touch, so do not like to bathe because of the way they feel. As such baptism, especially forced baptism, would be VERY traumatic.

[theoriginalavatar]

I was not referring to Mr. Peeks. Some autistic children are very sensitive to touch, so do not like to bathe because of the way they feel. As such baptism, especially forced baptism, would be VERY traumatic.

I completely agree with you. God bless you for your work with these special children. I admire and envy you.

[OmahaLDS]

I completely agree with you. God bless you for your work with these special children. I admire and envy you.

Don't thank me, my wife is the one who is a saint. She has been working with special needs kids since she was 12. Her mom was an aide in a Special Ed. classroom, and she has been doing it ever since. I help out with heavy lifting, but that is about it.

[Bini]

Don't thank me, my wife is the one who is a saint. She has been working with special needs kids since she was 12. Her mom was an aide in a Special Ed. classroom, and she has been doing it ever since. I help out with heavy lifting, but that is about it.

I got a lot of experience doing what your wife does and it actually taught me a ton prior to getting my license in nursing. It's a stressful job and it isn't always as rewarding as many might think. You put a lot of heart and soul into working with individuals with developmental disabilities—many times without a thank you or any acknowledgment at all. Which is probably why not everyone can do it. The biggest lesson learned, at least for myself, was learning a patience I never thought I had and also being appreciative for what I am blessed with.

Anyway, back to topic. It's hard to say from an outsider's perspective whether or not this man should have been baptised. But I do know one thing, the Lord is not blind and knows all of us, and much more than we claim to know each other.

[Elgama]

I think the important point as usual was raised by Moksha to baptise someone who does not understand the concept makes a mockery of the baptism. Personally I will not be allowing my children to be baptised until I am sure they understand what they are doing to an acceptable level - hopefully that will be 8, but it is much better to be baptised when you are ready and endure to the end - than be baptised and fall away.

If he was capable of understanding the baptismal covenant then I am sure those around him would have made it happen -

[Justice]

Moroni 6 gives us some indication that baptism may have been a "bigger deal" to the people in Moroni's day... or at least they seem to view it as a bigger deal.

Moroni 6:

1 And now I speak concerning baptism. Behold, elders, priests, and teachers were baptized; and they were not baptized save they brought forth fruit meet that they were worthy of it.

Men, or young men, were given the priesthood before they were baptized? Not conclusive, but it seems to be saying that.

2 Neither did they receive any unto baptism save they came forth with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and witnessed unto the church that they truly repented of all their sins.

3 And none were received unto baptism save they took upon them the name of Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end.

Very much like our day, but verse 4 makes a possible distinction:

4 And after they had been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God, to keep them in the right way, to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.

I realize this is the way it is supposed to be, but if it were written of our day, could the same thing be said? It seems, although the confirmation happens at baptism, in our day the cleaning typically doesn't happen until much later in life, if ever.

It reads like baptism wasn't performed until a person demonstrated fruit, or evidence, that they were further along their path of conversion to Christ.

Chapter 6 only has 9 verses but is powerful guidance to members of a Bishopric, PEC, Welfare Comittee, or Ward Council.

[Justice]

How can you claim to know what someone's "real" age is?

I believe this is the point people are making. It is very difficult to know, if not impossible. But, perhaps, as I mentioned, one way might be to observe their feelings toward sin, repentance, and baptism. The parents are in the best position to do this.

By their birthday....if they are 40 yrs old, they should treated as an adult. I'm not here to argue but I believe that adults with disabilities should be treated as adults with dignity and respect.

No one is saying they shouldn't be treated with dignity or respect. I believe we are on the same page there.

What I'm saying is that I don't think it would be treating a 3 year old with dignity or respect if you expected them to act and reason as if they were 30. To someone who is physically 30, but with the mental capacity of a 3 year old, the best thing to do is treat them as a 3 year old and help them to advance. To expect them to respond as a 30 year old isn't reasonable, and I don't think that's what you're saying. That wouldn't make any sense. So, I have to believe we're saying the same thing with different words.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Justice

[Moksha]

A short but worthwhile video on Kim Peek: video

[Feathertail]

Please get straight what mental age actually is: It’s a myth. It says that if you score the same level on a certain test, that the “average” person of another age does, then your mind is really that age.

...

Mental age is not an okay construct to run around playing with. It’s a dangerous one, it costs adults our autonomy on a regular basis, it’s the basis for most of the restrictions placed on people with developmental disabilities, and it is not okay no matter what the excuse. People who purport to support the rights of people with developmental disabilities ought not to invoke it.

That's from Mental age is not acceptable, by Amanda Baggs, a "low-functioning" autistic blogger. You can read a Wired magazine article about her by clicking here.

I'm not questioning the concept of an age of accountability, I'm just saying that trying to extend this concept to say that X person thinks like a 5-year-old is dodgy at best.

I can't comment too much about the person being discussed in specific, because about all I know of him is that my autistic girlfriend watched Rain Man and thought it a lousy / inaccurate portrayal of autistic people's experiences. (Which, apparently they found out he wasn't autistic later on, so that probably helps explain why.)

Edited January 5, 2010 by Feathertail

[Hemidakota]

Concur...one of my councilor have a autism daughter who talent in music was superior for anyone of her age group and more but was baptized in the church since she met the age of accountability. It is always a case by case basis in determining if the individual is ready.