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wow -

yes your right to manny people suffering thru something so similar ! - satan is really out to end marriges and families-

you know i have felt that if i leave that our havenly father will give me someone better , however at this time i still feel i should stay - i pry and pry all day sunday feeling sad and unloved and feeling unhappy- finally as i waited for my H to meet me at the exit to leave church - my answere was loud and clear !! " try harder " ---- this gave me peace and a lil relief but i was also upset ( lol ) i mean how much harder can i try ... but on our ride home my H and i talked he said he just wasent sure of what to do . we spoke for a while he said " today i dont want a divorce " but i dont know what our future holds - then our home visiting teacher can over and they left a perfect messege and the sprit was so strong !

my H was happy and loveing and it was the old him -- its wonderful the man he can be when the spirit of the lord has touched him -- the rest of the day was great - even today he is feeling better -- i wish that he could feel that spirit every minute of everyday ---

i too have many wonderful memories ------- dont get me worng he is a great man - he is kind and loveing and a has a wonderul heart .. but his weaknesses have made him a big and ez target for satan to try to disolve a temple marrige...... but as you said only i know when to give up - and just when i feel i cant take anymore - something changes and im ready to keep fighting and to do whatever it takes to save and fix our marrige--

at the end of the night he game me kiss and hugg and said he would try harder for me to b paitient that he was trying but it was really hard .... i told him i would and that i was not going to leave him unless he would ask me to leave- i just wont give up -- i belive we can still be happy one day when he fixes his relationship with the lord ones he truely had godly sorrow i will see the pain and love he has for me .. -

thats another thing he is so worried about getting exco- that he thinks that if he does get exco - that divorce would probably be the best thing "for me " -- i am really worried that he will get exco - but i have no i dea if he will or not - he is the kind of person who needs rules and goals and structure - i fear that if he does get exco - that he wont come back - and surely that will b the end of us :( ----

by any chance CHET -

have you had the opportunity to drive or fly to see ur wife and kids ? have u playid the knight in shinny amore here to bring back home the women he love ........ if not it might be worth a shot - -

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I can see you're a lot like me, Noche.

I too have been holding on to my marriage and stubbornly refusing to give up on my wife, and I still am to a degree. She has a behavioral disorder that has not been diagnosed correctly, but I believe she has Borderline Personality Disorder. On the other hand, I'm a codependent, so we're about the only possible combination of personalities that could have made our marriage work. I often explain it to people like this: if you ever watch "Cops" and you see some shirtless guy getting dragged out of a trailer house and a woman with a black eye following close behind yelling "Don't take him away! I love him! I just want him to stop!" Well, I'm that woman, metaphorically speaking. My wife has hurt me very deeply, many times over the 14 years I've known her. But I always manage to forgive her. When we were only dating, and we both told each other that we were in love, she told me she would never kiss another guy ever again. Soon after, I found out that she'd begun dating a guy in her singles ward, that she had been alone with him in his apartment, where he served her a candle light dinner, wore no shirt, gave her a rose, and she kissed him. When I found out, I told her she had to choose. She refused to do so, and I was about to dump her. Her mom begged me to give her a second chance, and explained that she had raised my wife to be a boy crazy date-a-holic (they think that sort of thing is cute where they come from), and that she was not used to being in an emotionally serious relationship (although she certainly was accustomed to being in EXTREMELY serious physical relationships, but oh well), and she promised to explain to her daughter why it was no longer appropriate to play the field. I relented. The next time I talked to my future wife, she said she had already committed to another date with him and that she was going to honor that and then she'd stop dating. I feel like an idiot admitting that I accepted this, after the promises she had already broken. But this is what I'm like. I put up with nonsense in the name of love. I've been doing that for 14 years. I was also like that with a girl I loved before I met my wife.

Anyway, I can understand why even though by simply describing what you're going through, your husband sounds like slime, and yet you still are holding on to your marriage. You wouldn't have married him if he didn't have, at least once upon a time, qualities about him that you love. My wife was a completely different person when I met her. She was the sweetest person you'd ever meet. She adored me. She showered me with affection. She may not have liked everything I liked, or agreed with every opinion of mine, but she could at least be tolerant of, if not accepting of things about me that were different from her. Slowly, over the years, she began cleaving more and more to her mom and growing more and more distant from me. It started with something kind of trivial, like how we both hated country music, and she came back from visiting her parents and all the sudden liked it. Now it's gotten to the point that she left me to live with her mom, and took the kids with her. She left for a month long visit. That was nearly six months ago.

I went out to visit her and the boys in late October/early November. We had a very special night together and grew closer than we had been in a very long time, but it wasn't enough for her to decide to come home with me. She had already decided that home was there and not here. She begged me to stay with her, as if my paychecks would keep coming in even if I abandoned my job, and as if the mortgage would somehow continue to get paid, or if not, that my credit score wouldn't be ruined, and that it wouldn't affect our lives. She wasn't thinking practically. She was also being selfish, even if she was also being sweet about it. She never had any intention of coming home.

She asked me to go out there and visit her again over the New Years weekend. My step brother was getting sealed that weekend and I was also going to be on call, so I asked her to come visit me instead. At first she agreed, and then she changed her mind. Since then, she got the papers that she already knew were coming (and why) when she asked me to come visit her, and she has done the following:

She changed the password on her email account (we always let each other know what our passwords were, in a spirit of openness and sharing). It had always been the date that we met, but she changed it. Then she deleted the email account. Before she broke off communication with me, she said she was doing so, but that she would hand her cell phone over to the boys when I called so I could still talk to them. After a couple of unsuccessful attempts to contact them (I left voice mails), she defaulted the voice mail greeting on her cell phone to an automated attendant, so if I find myself leaving a message, I won't even hear her voice anymore. The only time I am able to hear her voice is when I call and as she's handing the phone to my son, I faintly hear her telling him it's me.

I still love my wife, even though I know she's bad for me. She brings out the worst in me, through her unstable and contentious behavior. She often yells and screams at me. She is incredibly selfish. She is high maintenance and never satisfied. She has betrayed my trust through emotional infidelity so many times I don't have enough fingers to count. She has rejected me constantly and hurt me profoundly. She has destroyed my self esteem. And yet, I still remember the good times, which never completely stopped, they just grew more and more infrequent. And what good times they were! When everything was right, it was amazing! I don't know, maybe it was just by comparison to the bad times, but I have known love, and I know what I'm losing.

I am losing my wife. It is not my choice. It is hers. I can't control it. I have fought it and continue to fight it. With every prayer I ask for her happiness, and for her mind to be healed so she can come back to me and put our family back together. I pray that my marriage will be saved. But even Heavenly Father can't interfere with free agency. I can pray that angels will attempt to influence her to make the right decisions, but ultimately it's up to her. That is why I know it won't be my fault if my marriage fails. That, and the fact that I've done everything I could think of to save it.

I commend you for doing the same thing, Noche. If you believe you need to hold on, then I salute you for doing that. You know what is best for you, as long as you're praying, reading the scriptures, consulting your Priesthood authority, and doing your best to live the Gospel.

I know that if I was in your situation, I'd probably be doing exactly what you're doing. I would not have filed for a divorce if I wasn't in danger of losing my children. Instead, I'd wait for her to do it. Either that or come to her senses and return to me. I waited as long as I could before filing. But my boys were about to become legal residents of another state. If, after that point, either me or my wife had filed, it would go to court there, and I would be hung out to dry. The courts tend to favor the locals over the out of staters. This actually happened to a guy I know. He makes three times what I make, but can only afford a small studio apartment. He almost never gets to see his kids. All because he kept waiting and the children became residents of another state.

In order to prevent that, I had to file for a divorce. It was the only way to keep from losing my children. It was my only legal recourse. I cannot describe how painful it was to sign papers to end the most precious thing in my life, apart from my testimony of truth of the Gospel. Divorce was the last thing I wanted, and yet I was forced to file for one. I have maintained that I don't want my marriage to end, but my wife is patently embittered and has thrown the word "divorce" around plenty of times over the years. She had been working up to this already, and the fact that I filed probably is all she needs to absolve herself in her own mind of any blame.

I blame the in laws, to a large degree. They appear to have always viewed her as their property, never letting go, always resenting me for having moved my family so far away from them. They got her back and circled the wagons. They've poisoned her mind against me, although she had already done that herself to a point. When she complained about what a bad person I was, in her view, and told them all about things that neither of us should be discussing with anyone but each other, they latched on to everything she said as if it were 100% true. They did not ask me for my side of the story. When I offered it, they dismissed it. They encouraged her to emotionally divorce herself from me, or use my children as bargaining chips while blackmailing me into moving out there, contrary to the answers to my prayers on the matter, and several unmistakable personal revelations I've received.

Still, at least I can say that as far as I know, my wife never physically cheated on me after marriage. I don't envy you for what you've endured, though I've tasted a portion of it many times. Every situation is different. Every person is different. Only you can decide how to handle this. Don't let anyone tell you you have to give up on your husband, but remember that there's only so much you can do, and if your husband wants to end your marriage, it's not your fault and it's out of your hands. Do what you feel you should to save your marriage, but don't blame yourself. Don't let the in laws convince you that you're wrong. If you've made any mistakes in your marriage, correct them now and proceed with a clear conscience. There are, unfortunately, a lot of us here on these threads who have been or are going through something similar to what you are now. Support is available. But always be true to your heart. It's better to fail at trying to save your marriage and look foolish to the cynics than to take their advice and regret for the rest of your life not doing what you felt you should have, wondering if you might have saved your marriage had you done so. There is nothing worse than regret.

It is my belief that in my own situation, my wife has treated me and our children so badly, for so long, that Heavenly Father is tired of it and is about to take us away from her, because we deserve something better, and she's too prideful and selfish to change. I would never have made this happen on my own. I would never have quit on my marriage, and am not doing so now. So I've found myself in a situation where it's out of my hands. My wife may not have filed herself, but she's made it absolutely impossible for me to avoid doing so, despite how much I still love her. My love for her has actually interfered with what Father wants for my family. She won't stop screaming at and verbally abusing us, even physically abusing us, and keeps contaminating the spirit in our home. This is not what Father wants for any family. And I would never have put a stop to it, though I tried to work with her. I never would have left her, or given up on her. So my hand has been forced, and it is God's will. I have been forced to do the unthinkable, like when Nephi was commanded to slay Laban. This is what it took. I would never have "slayed" my marriage without being forced to like this.

Your situation may be completely different. You must find the purpose behind why this is happening. No one else but God can tell you, though He may tell you through the insights of others. I've gleaned here and there a bit of randomly dispersed wisdom from friends and relatives. I've figured some of this out on my own. Stay true to your heart, or it will haunt you for the rest of your life. But if your heart tells you that his chances are over and you've done all you can for him, that it is time for you to move on and receive the blessing he should have been to you, a blessing that your Heavenly Father wants you to have, you have to be prepared to follow your heart down that path as well, should the time come. Your Father loves you and He wants you to be loved, embraced, made to feel ecstatic, even. Your husband (as are you) is supposed to bless you with all the love you want. This is a gift from Heavenly Father that you received in the Temple, at the altar. Father may be perfect, but we all are not, and so if your husband has dropped the ball, you can know it's not Father's fault, but your husband's. Father may decide that your husband's chances are gone, and that you deserve better. In my own situation, the final decision will be made by my wife herself, and I won't have to blame myself, because I know I've done all I could to save my marriage, which is very nearly over. I go to court in about a week. I am still hoping for a miracle, but the miracle I get may not be the one I'm asking for. Nevertheless, not my but Father's be done, and I will reconcile myself to it. He knows best anyway.

If you want to vent more about this, we are here for you Noche. It has been very therapeutic for me to just vent. 14 year's worth of intense memories don't just vanish overnight. Anything you're comfortable talking about, I'll read, either here in this thread, or you can PM me if you want.

Hang in there. You are loved. Don't give up.

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thank you... Chet -

i cant belive all the pian u are going thru - my heart and prayers go out to you.. my H as been feeling better latley or so he says - for the most part i can feel it and see it - if he dosent feel like he loves me on days he wont say it at all or kiss me or even touch me - and when he does he is sweet and loveing - i have asked him why he is like this he says it is not me but him that he is so full of guilt and shame and discust for what he did that he dosent feel right saying he loves me -or to hold my hand even -- i guess in a way iam glad he feel that way i mean he should he embarrased for what he did - he hid it from me for so long that now he is ashamed --- i know thats good but i woulf really love to see him have godly sorrow not only for what he did to his relationship w/the lord but for all the pain he has couse me ..... i hpe that as he begins his repenting prosses that i can see and feel that emotional pain from him ....... we have had a good couple of days so far , but i woke up feeling insecure about my self and worried that he will be going to get our taxes done right after work - i mean i dont trust him how can i after what he did , so u have been calling and texting him all day- he finally asked me why are u acting so weird to day - i told him well im insecure today -- his reply - k well dnt b --

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean how is that suppose to make me feel better . how about dont be i love you and that will never happen again - or dont worrid we will get thru this or something !!!!!!!!!!!!! he can be so !!!!!! i dont knpw what i am just so angry !!!!!!!!!!!

i dont even know how things got like this ........

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Hi Noche

I don't envy you for the way your husband is so nonchalant and cavalier about what you're going through as a result of what he has done to you. Have you told him that it hurts you when he exhibits so little (if any) remorse for what he's done to you, specifically? Is he just unable to adequately express his feelings? It's apparent that he regrets that he's in trouble with the Church right now, but from what you've said so far, it sounds like his regret ends there. He should feel much more regret for what he's done to you than for what he's done to himself. He certainly should be repenting and all that, but does he expect that alone to heal your pain? Healing himself may make him more able to heal you, but they're not necessarily the same thing. And if you ask me, his repentence ought to include a sincere and strong effort to replace your pain and insecurity with trust and happiness.

This reminds me of something my wife did about four years ago. While she was out visiting her mom (what a surprise, right?), I found emails (love letters, actually) to an old boyfriend in her email account (makes me wonder why she has a new email account now, but I digress). When I confronted her about it, she admitted that she had been out to lunch with him, and if I remember correctly he had been over to her mom's place to see her once while her mom wasn't around. When I found the emails she had sent him, one of them in particular, which was nothing short of a love letter, I fell to pieces. I didn't know what to do so I showed it to my best friends and asked them to tell me what to think or what I should do about it, and how, if possible, I might save my marriage. Then I showed it to my Bishop. Maybe I was angry and wanted to rat her out. Maybe I was just hurting and wanted someone to help me deal with it. I can't remember what I was thinking other than that it hurt A LOT.

When my wife eventually came home from that visit, she had to face our Bishop and answer for those emails and for seeing her old boyfriend face to face. I wasn't there for it, of course, but all I've ever heard about it has been what my wife told me, and she said that he was too harsh with her, that he told her that if I divorced her the kids would only be sealed to me, that she was in danger of being disfellowshipped or excommunicated, etc. She said he also lectured her about being generously intimate and went on about his love life, etc. As you can see, she had a pretty low opinion of him after that.

It really bothered me that all I heard from her were negative comments about the Bishop (who, by the way, happened to be the guy who brought me into the Church, in whose home I had the discussions, which were basically just Q & A after having been taught by him and his wife). She never seemed to express remorse for what she'd done to me except for on a couple of occasions not long after I found out. She certainly was defensive and remorseless when it came time to answer to the Bishop.

I seem to remember trying to convey to her on at least a few occasions that her stubbornly defensive and bitter attitude toward the Bishop had the effect of telling me that she felt that what she did wasn't wrong, and given how much it hurt me in the first place, her attitude with the Bishop hurt as well. I wanted her to accept that what she had done was a serious mistake and that she should expect to be chastised by the Bishop for it, or punished or corrected in some way or other. I've made mistakes in the way I've treated her in the past, and one time it cost me my Temple recommend. My attitude was that I'd rather hand it over and take counsel from the Bishop than to pollute the Temple with my presence. My Bishop at the time commended me on my attitude. It was a lot different from the attitude that my wife would have years later about her emotional infidelity. And as far as that goes, it was the last of 11 or 12 times she was emotionally unfaithful to me (that I know of), not the first.

My wife was too selfish to care about my feelings. When I caught her being unfaithful, and she was sorry then, she agreed to rip all the pages out of her old journals that talked about her old boyfriends (and the wicked things they did together). But when she came home a month or so later, she had changed her mind, and acted as though she'd never promised in the first place. Only after my repeated begging and pleading and her yelling and screaming did she finally just throw them all away. It hurt me that she felt such a need to hold on to a past that was so painful to me. It hurt me that she showed so little remorse for what she'd done to me. I know how you feel Noche!

Does your husband? Speaking for men in general, one of our flaws is that we don't read between the lines very well when women are trying to be subtle, or drop hints. We often need them to be very direct and blunt. I'm not saying you haven't been; I couldn't know. But it's something to think about. If I were you, I'd tell him very bluntly and as clearly and thoroughly as possible exactly how you feel when he brushes off your feelings, given what's going on and/or has been going on. I wouldn't try to sound angry or bitter, but rather, hurt, saddened, etc., which, in addition to your just and righteous anger, you certainly are.

You have a right to feel the way you do. He should be more considerate of that. The fact that he doesn't tells me that he doesn't care enough. That might be selfishness. It might be a psychological problem. I say it doesn't really matter what causes it. You can't hurt someone, claim you have a behavioral disorder that made you do it, and expect that to make their hurt go away. When a person injures a child of God, he ought to at least try to make amends, not excuse himself. When a person hurts someone and tries to make excuses, that tells me that either they don't fully understand the pain they caused, or they just don't care.

Make sure your husband understands, and then it'll be obvious why he's not more concerned with your feelings, if that is still the case. As long as you don't make it a gripe session or speak in anger or bitterness, you ought to be allowed to take as much time and as many words as you want to explain how you feel. And he ought to be willing to listen if you want to talk about your feelings. It's one thing if you keep them inside and don't share them, but if you're willing to share with him the feelings in your heart, the very pieces of your soul, he ought to consider himself privileged that you would do so, especially after what he's done. He ought to dare to hope to keep your love. He ought to want and need you so much that he would at least try to be worthy of you. He shouldn't be so quick to give up and declare himself unfit for you. That sounds like a cop out for a bigger problem. If he really loves you, I say he ought to try to convince you to love him back, even if you don't anymore. He ought to be desperate to get back what he threw away. A man in love would do that, even if he was too ashamed of himself to approach you very many times, he would at least still try to remind you that he was there for you and let you decide freely if you still wanted him or not.

For cryin' out loud, I'm doing that with my wife right now (or was until she shut me out and her mom stopped talking to me), and I'm not the one who left with the kids, who tried to use them and our marriage to blackmail her into living where I want to live, etc.

I'm starting to get worked up now. Sorry about that.

Noche, I know your pain, more or less, and it just makes me angry to know that other people are having to suffer as I have. It makes me feel like we're all suffering in vain sometimes, when even people in the Church can't learn to do better than this. Why are there so many LDS teens who have so little respect for the law of chastity? Why do they grow up to become unfaithful spouses instead of learning from their mistakes and considering the pain they cause their spouses by not saving themselves for them? Why, after all the brethren have said about pornography are there still men and boys out there who keep getting hooked on it, and who let it take over their lives much like the way that drugs do? Why do these people not look around and see the pain that this sort of behavior causes and decide in their youth that they will not contribute to this problem?

Why are there people, even in the Church, who are so indifferent about the pain they place on others, even the ones they covenant before God and angels to love and honor for eternity? How is this even possible?

Again, I'm getting worked up about this. Sorry Noche.

You are in my prayers too. I hope you will have the strength you need to cope with your own pain, each and ever day. I hope you have the support available to you that I've had. Without it, I'm certain I'd have ended this pain myself by now. I have a feeling Father has something better in mind for me, and that I'd be throwing away a beautiful future if I did that. I wouldn't be surprised if He's got something similar in mind for you.

Again, don't be afraid to do what you think is right, and to heck with what anyone else thinks. They don't have to live with the results. You do, and so you have the right to do what you believe must be done. Hold on to your husband if you want, or tell him to take a hike if you prefer. You've already demonstrated, in my opinion, that you've forgiven him, that you place a proper value on your marriage and your covenants. You've shown him mercy, and it sounds like he's not sufficiently appreciative of that mercy. But if you love him too much to let go, that is a sign of compassion and sincere love, not weakness. You're supposed to not want to get rid of him right away. You love him whether he deserves it or not. You've already proven yourself, in my view, for whatever that's worth. You're in the right. You're justified. I encourage you to ask Father if He agrees. His opinion's the one that really matters, not mine.

I was prayerfully pondering this particular part of my own situation one day, and the answer I got was that Father was not going to tell me what to do about it because, among other reasons, I was justified in whatever decision I made concerning how to proceed. If I held on or let go, either way, He was satisfied that I had proven my love, that I'd given her enough chances to come back to me and honor her covenants and stop sinning against love. Her time as my wife has been up since then, and she remains my wife only due to my mercy and the fact that she has not yet had the opportunity to make our divorce official. Very soon, she will end our marriage herself. My garments will be unspotted and my conscience clear.

I believe Father would tell you what He has told me: "The decision is in your hands and you are justified." Ask Him tonight. If you can, ask Him right now. Keep praying about it, and follow your heart. I believe in you. But more importantly, so does Heavenly Father.

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Chet ,

sorry i didnt get to write as much yesturday i was on my way out the door..

well today iam feeling ok ( i guess ) sometimes i have questions about his infidelity , but the trueth is i dont think i want to know those answeres , i mean what good would it do me to know where he went and what the women looked like - or the ecxact date of the last occurance...... i think this would hurt me more then help yet i am curiouse , but i dont think my curiosity is woth the pain of knowing ... so today i need to push those dumb Questions out of my head......

You are in my prayers too. I hope you will have the strength you need to cope with your own pain, each and ever day. I hope you have the support available to you that I've had. Without it, I'm certain I'd have ended this pain myself by now. I have a feeling Father has something better in mind for me, and that I'd be throwing away a beautiful future if I did that. I wouldn't be surprised if He's got something similar in mind for you.

thank you, i have put you in my prayers aswell, you know at times i do feel if this ,marrige dosent work and i have done everything i can to save it .. the lord will give me some one better.. i know he will do the same for you... like u have said u have done all and more then expected .. i know all that will not go unnotice my the lord and will give you a chance to be loved the way you desrve.... hang in there....

Make sure your husband understands, and then it'll be obvious why he's not more concerned with your feelings, if that is still the case. As long as you don't make it a gripe session or speak in anger or bitterness, you ought to be allowed to take as much time and as many words as you want to explain how you feel. And he ought to be willing to listen if you want to talk about your feelings. It's one thing if you keep them inside and don't share them, but if you're willing to share with him the feelings in your heart, the very pieces of your soul, he ought to consider himself privileged that you would do so, especially after what he's done. He ought to dare to hope to keep your love. He ought to want and need you so much that he would at least try to be worthy of you. He shouldn't be so quick to give up and declare himself unfit for you. That sounds like a cop out for a bigger problem. If he really loves you, I say he ought to try to convince you to love him back, even if you don't anymore. He ought to be desperate to get back what he threw away. A man in love would do that, even if he was too ashamed of himself to approach you very many times, he would at least still try to remind you that he was there for you and let you decide freely if you still wanted him or not.


its funny you said that -- yesturday my H and i went to buy somethings at ikea- he is remodeling out bathroom -- ( this was a suprice for me hes way of saying im sorry and i will work harder at fixing our marrige ) --- We had the opportunity to talk and i told him how i fealt .. i told him that he needed to not only show me but sometime i needed to hear the word " im sorry " I love u " and to see that the pian he caused me hurt him... he was verry honest and i felt he was beeing sensare when he said that it hurt him to see me cry and to see me sad beacuse of what he did - he said that that will never happen again - he said that he was happy and so greatfull that i stood by his side and was patient , all week he has not fealt that divorce is the answere , he said he was sorry that he was being so stuburn, but that now he saw what i was saying all along . that our marrige is worth fithing for , that its not dispossable and that he will do whatever it takes to make things right .. ----- i told him that the next time he fealt he was not good enough for me that he needed. not think of leaving but instead improving . that he needs to be the man that he knows i deserve that he needs to be the man i married in the temple .. he agreed-- and said that thats what he wanted , but that it was not going to be ez , and for me to b patient, but that now he felth that we could be happy again.....


i am not naive i know it will take time but this is a start i have not fealt his love and seen him smile that way in almost 2 years .... we both have a lot to work on to make our marrige better - and he knows he needs to earn my love nad trust .. so all i can do is trust god to guide me and help me b strong ........

Edited by noche10
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You are not naive, Noche. You are admirable. I salute you. It takes a special kind of person to forgive as you are doing. You deserve a medal. On judgment day, you'll get one.

It's very hard to let go. It also happens to be that way for a reason. We should be unwilling to let go. We should be unwilling to give up on someone to whom we pledge eternal love, especially in the Temple. And who wants to go through life haunted by the memories of a loved one we WON'T still be sealed to and be with after mortality? Who wants to face the prospect of a future with a knife stuck in your heart that will never truly come out?

I still remember the first time I saw the movie "Titanic". My wife and I went with some friends. Neither of us drove, so on the way home, I was able to look into her eyes the whole time. I will never forget the look in her eyes. I have hundreds of memories like that. This has been my life for the past 14 years. It is the only life I remember. She is the only wife I've ever had, the only woman with whom I've ever shared my body, soul, heart, and mind. She is the mother of the only children I have. We went through the Temple for the first time together. I was waiting for her at the veil. I heard her speak her new name. I heard it spoken in her own voice. On the morning of the resurrection, I will be the one to call her forth from her grave, by that name (At least that was the plan; I don't know how things will work out now).

The morning we were married, when I escorted her to her place at the altar, the officiator commended me for holding her hand and doing so, compared to most men, whom he said typically just went to their own side of the altar and expected their bride to do the same. I knelt with her at the altar in the Temple, held her hands, looked into her eyes and rejoiced like never before or since, knowing that what I had wished for and hoped for from the age of 10 was at long last mine. I had found someone to love, who would love me back (or so I thought), and we were now married for time and eternity. It has always been the greatest, happiest day of my life. It will soon be a memory that haunts me like a malicious ghost.

If I could save my marriage I certainly would. I hope nothing I've said has discouraged you from doing everything in your power to save your own marriage. Please forgive me if I did. I'd cheerfully die for my wife, knowing that she hates me as I do it, knowing that her love for me went into a coma a long time ago, and has only temporarily snapped out of it on a few occasions. I know that she loves herself and her mother too much to honor her Temple covenants and remain by my side in any case. I know that she loves herself too much to share our children with me unless forced to do so by a judge. I know she has so little love for me that she will never appreciate all I do and have done for her, to the point that she is willing to leave behind all her possessions, a large and comfortable house, and one of the most beautiful places on earth to be a permanent house guest in her mother's house. Nothing I ever gave her was good enough. No amount of money I ever earned was good enough. I guess she's just gotten too tired of pretending otherwise. Still, I love her with all my heart. I've tried not to, but I can't control it. I wonder when or even if my tears will ever stop falling.

It cheers me to hear that at least your husband is willing to try to make things right. It sounds like he's making you happy. That's a very good start. Be sure to encourage that type of behavior. All men need encouragement from their wives, and in his case, he'll need a LOT more than others. I heartily applaud you for telling him that next time he feels he's not good enough for you that he should focus on improving himself rather than walking away. That carries with it the ringing endorsement of the Holy Spirit, who constrains me to testify of it. I would only add to what you said that you are asking him to do that not because he's not good enough, but because you don't want to lose him and you believe in him. That is the message I keep trying to get to my wife. For this to work out, he is going to have to believe that you see potential in him, and that his growth so far is appreciated.

Thank you for your prayers. You remain in mine.

---- The Gospel of Jesus Christ -- because no man is an island ----

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hi chet !!

yes you are right about encouragement ! he does need it . i have been trying to be more patient and to try to understand what he is dealing with -- but -- i just did not know that porn addiction was this bad !!

he has been struggling with the urge - but he says he has not look at it or any kind of it - in a lil over a month now -- which is a start !! ( i wish there was more i can do ) but this is really his batlle and he has to fight it---- i want to help and enocurage him ,but he also wants to be able to do most of it on his own- the bishop told us there was a program that he could go to, but we are still waiting for him to have his disapline councel--- to see what the repenting process will be ---

wel good luck to you with your wife , i hope that when she get the divorce pappers she will realize how selfish and dumb she has been and hopefully she will reconsider ..

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some days are really hard and it seems like 2 big steps back !!! i sometimes wonder i am really doing the right thing .. if i choose to leave now will i be the one breaking my covents ??? i dont want to break then ..... i want to be happy and loved and i want my marrige to be like it was 2 yrs ago....... but will it ever really be like that again ???

i think of the times we have spenttogether lol and just haveing a great time , the moments of love and calm and pace .. they seem so far away now ..... it also husrts to think that many of theose moments from the past year are now staind with guilt --- i often wonder what was done for me out of love / not guilt ------- today i feel neglected by him - no txts no i love u s --- he says he is bz -- but this is the guy that uses to sneak off out side during work to call and say hi, i love u- i miss u ---- and now he is too b z ------- interesting -----------

i am i just being paranoid - and too clinggy ??? --- is there such thing as personal space and alone time - after an infedelity ?

hopefully today will be over soon and tomorrow will be much better

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well yesturday got better when we were home , but today its all up in smoke again its like when he is at home he will try and be nice and loveing and when he is at work he is too bz ------ i get work gets bz but really were is the effort i mean shoulding he be jumping thru hoops and all ------- well wheni told him - in a tx - that i didt see much effort tand he said i was driving him crazy - so like it has been latley i end up appologising for something i dint really do - i said sorry iam just trying telling u how i feel , and he said not this is too much im at work i cant be all loveby dovey ------ and hasent tx since that was 2 hrs ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHET !!!!!!! i see how u think and write about ur wife ....... i wish my H ,fealt that way about me ------- shes lucky------- i hope she reconizes it soon

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Thank you Noche! You are very kind to say that. Perhaps without even meaning to do so, she has all but destroyed my self esteem. One way in particular, and one which I'm sure you can relate to, is the way I have normally felt like she loved her old boyfriends more than me. This has very often been apparent in multiple ways. One was affection. Another was how much attention she paid to me, compared to her relatives, and in some cases, a guy who who lived in the apartment complex, old boyfriends, etc.

I know I sound like an idiot for having put up with it, like it's so obvious now how badly I was being treated at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20. And I'm the sappy, codependent sort who will put up with an awful lot in the name of love. I don't think I could respect myself if I was any other way. And I don't have to tell you that marriage is probably the single most sacred ordinance of the Gospel, and should not be terminated except for when absolutely necessary. You've shown an incredible respect for your own marriage. If only more people were as dedicated to their marriage as you are!

Another parallel I'm seeing here, or at least a possible parallel, between my wife and your husband is the inability to adequately appreciate a spouse. No amount of money I ever made was enough. I have provided a very nice home for my wife. It has a pool in the back yard, in a town where nobody has them. My wife always has to be swimming in the summer and even looks down on me that I get bored if I go swimming very often. But our pool isn't good enough. Nor is the city pool. Last summer she drove to another town about 25 minutes away and took the kids to the pool there because it was a bit more like a water park. She insisted we have a membership with the YMCA (about $40 a month, and she's always complaining about money) so that she could go to the pool for free. It also got her into city pools in other towns, and one or two of the other ones were indoor. Some days only an indoor pool was acceptable to her.

"Good grief!!" Right? She has been virtually impossible to satisfy. And of course, it's my fault. So she decided, while visiting her mother, that our family will now live in Arizona. I was not allowed any say in this decision, but then I often wasn't shown any consideration in almost all of her decisions, which usually affected me. It didn't help much that her mom either agreed with her or actually talked her in to this instead of sending her back to her husband, like she should have. They expect me to quit the best paying job I've ever had in an economy that has seen the loss of 11.1 million jobs over the last two years, move out there and look for a job while our house goes into foreclosure (which would wreck my credit and make it very hard for me to get another job or another house), leave behind my non member relatives who need the Gospel influence so we can be near her member relatives who already have it. Plus, her mom works for an airline so she's got flight benefits. None of my relatives do. If I'm the sole breadwinner (as I have been for the most part), I'm stuck wherever we live, while she is free to travel as much as we can afford, and without having to ask for vacation time. The demand was placed on me, and when I prayed about it, the answer I received was to stay put. I've begged my wife repeatedly to come home or at least send the children back.

The saddest part, I think, is that I have been conditioned to think that this is asking a lot of her. I shouldn't have to ask more than once. She's made covenants, and is breaking them, if you ask me. The most painful part for me is that I still can't stop loving her, after all the pain she's caused me. I miss her terribly. I just wish I could wrap my arms around her right now and forget everything else for a while. She deleted her email address so I can't email her. She won't answer when I call. She has shut me out, and all I ever wanted out of this world is to have her by my side, her hand in mine. She put me in a situation where I was forced to file for divorce, when it's the last thing I ever wanted. Now that she's been served papers, she is moving forward and wants to end our marriage. I still want her by my side, in my arms, in our home, together, forever.

It goes without saying that your husband has broken his covenants. They don't get much more broken than that. Geesh! If I was in his place, the shame would be unbearable. And maybe that's how he feels and it's just not apparent. Hopefully he's past letting his shame keep him from making things right for you, or using it as an excuse, if that was the case.

There is a line to be drawn somewhere regarding his accessibility for you when he is at work. There comes a point where he needs to be allowed to do his job, and you have to accept that he can't talk just now. But where that line is drawn is something the two of you need to talk about. Hopefully, he'd appreciate you for wanting to understand what his limitations are on how much time he can devote to you when he's "on the clock". Hopefully there is room for understanding, both ways.

Do you have any friends that work where he does? Someone you can ask if he really is too busy? It's probably not the best way to handle this, but it might put your mind at ease if someone you trust tells you "Yeah, the guy was slammed with work when you texted him." I would prefer going that route to being forced to wonder, if I was you.

When he tells you he can't talk/text/etc., is he polite about it? Does he sound annoyed? Stressed? Your faith in him has been compromised, but on the other hand, he has a legitimate need and responsibility to apply himself to his work. There's a balance to be struck there. I think you two should talk about it until that balance is found.

There's bound to be more you're dealing with than that. If you don't mind sharing, what else is bothering you? Sometimes it helps just to vent. I'm here, as are others.

It's hard to know what to tell you. It's hard for me to even know what to think in my own situation. I've been lucky in that a very good friend of mine is the son of a very talented psychologist, and has given me free counseling every day for the past few months. Here's an idea he gave me that might help you:

When I was trying to decide whether or not to file on my wife (strictly for the purpose of getting the children back, as I have consistently stated that I prefer to reconcile and not get a divorce), he told me to take a pad and pen, draw a line down the middle, and on one side list things that I think would happen if I just waited for however long it took for her to come back to me (assuming she would at all), and on the other side, what would probably happen if I went ahead and filed. Then, on another page, he told me to make a list of worst case scenarios for both decisions, and on another page, best case scenarios for both decisions. Living with someone who has BPD is almost like having it yourself sometimes. It's really not possible to make a sound decision when you're basing it on the emotional state of someone else, and they're that unstable. So these lists enabled me to think more logically. Eventually, I saw what I stand to lose if I didn't file. I saw how unlikely it was that I'd gain what I wanted to if I didn't file. I realized that my back is to the wall and basically, I've got nothing left to lose.

Maybe a list might help you. I know if it wasn't for the counsel of my friend, I'd have ended it all by now. The pain is simply unbearable. You probably know all too well. Whatever you do, don't give up. If your marriage comes to a tragic end, like mine is about to, remember that part of the reason why is so that Father can replace an incompetent spouse with one who will love you as Father wants you to be loved.

Noche, I'd like to return the favor and tell you how lucky your husband is to have you for a wife. Some men are married to women who scream and shout at them, who greet them with contention, disprespect, hostility, and contempt when they come home from work, for no other reason than for simply showing up. Some men are married to women who have no understanding of the Temple Covenants they make, and treat their husbands like children, who are to obey them as superiors. Some women treat their husbands like they are of no worth beyond a paycheck and health insurance. Some women ridicule their husbands for not meeting unrealistic, selfish, or insatiable expectations. You don't seem to be one of those women. You've forgiven your husband for something that typically ends marriages. You've shown him mercy that he had no right to expect, even if it was the most Christ-like thing for you to do, and what the Holy Spirit constrained you to do. I hope your husband appreciates that and realizes how lucky he is to have a wife as forgiving, patient, and loving as you obviously are. Maybe he does and just doesn't know how to show it. I don't know enough to say. But I know that if he quits on your marriage, and you're stuck looking for a new husband, any man would be lucky to have you.

You are a literal daughter of the very God of Abraham. You are cosmic nobility, a literal princess. You will one day be a Queen in a Celestial Kingdom, just like your Heavenly Mother. You deserve to be loved, held, complimented, cherished, caressed, adored, and made to feel good about being you. This is a gift that Father wishes for us all. I believe that every married person is obligated to bless their spouse with all the love they want, that a spouse is a gift from God and should behave as such and magnify that calling. I may not be a perfect husband, and I may have let my wife down on occasion, but I normally did my best to bless her with the love that Father wanted her to have. What father is there that doesn't want his daughter, when she becomes an adult, to have a romantically fulfilling marriage, to feel engulfed in a warm and complete love? I believe Father wants this for his sons too. I know it's all I ever wanted since I was 10 years old. I believe He has decided that my wife's chance to be that love for me is almost up, and that if she continues to refuse and reject me, I will be taken from her and given to another (remember the parable about the talents?). I hope if that happens (though it would break my heart), He gives me someone at least half as generous as you have been to your husband.

God bless you Noche. Do what you feel is right, even if it means continuing to give and be patient when you don't want to anymore. If there is any chance that your marriage can be a healthy and happy one, Father will want you two to save it. Neither of you can do it alone. You have to come together and be one, in every way. You have to both give yourselves completely to each other.

Again, it may be that your husband really is that busy at work. Maybe the work load is changing. I enourage you two to talk about it, without any contention. Maybe try to talk about and it and put it on the back burner if it gets too difficult. If you do that, and you know you'll have to come back to it eventually, you might find yourselves both more willing to compromise later. The Holy Spirit may help you both resolve it on your own in the meantime, or prepare you to do so when you continue discussing it.

Never forget to encourage him. Men need to know their wives believe in them and stand by them. And we often don't pick up on the subtle messages women try to give us. Be as patient as you can. Remember that you catch more flies with honey. Make sure he knows how you feel, what you want and need, and what matters most to you, and be as direct and up front as you can about it, without sounding confrontational. If he loves you (and it sounds like he does), he will want to know how to make all this easier on you. He probably just isn't good at showing his love, at least in the way that matters most to you.

My wife and I naturally feel loved by the other in different ways. I used to assume she felt loved the same way I did, and did my best to express my love in that way. It mostly just caused problems. When she made it clear to me how she naturally felt loved, I did my best to express my love in that way instead. On the occasions on which I can recall her being grateful to me, it was when I showed her love the way she wanted it to be shown. Does he know what he needs to do to make you feel loved by him? Is he skilled at expressing love in that way or does he need your help? My wife wanted me to come up with creative gifts and expressions of love, like a crossword puzzle I made for her based on our courtship and other happy times together, but I ran out of ideas most of the time. It would have been easier for me if she had helped cultivate that creativity she wanted me to have.

Does your husband just need help understanding what you need from him?

Again, God bless you Noche. You remain in my prayers.

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thanks Chet!

it is nice to hear your point of view and i apreciate all the nice things you said..

well we have talked about him being bz. he said that he will try but now its just really hard for him to make the time to tx or talk while he is at work .. i thnik he is being honest but then again i dont really trust him much-- i told him how it made me feel and that it bother me because of the fact that in the past when i though he was at work he was at a dorctors office getting an STD test ( even tho he says he was safe..... this was a doctor he took the time to look for near his job not his regular dr . ) i told him how the trust dosent end or start with the fact that he was unfaithful , but also wiht all the lies he told to cover up his stupid actions ...... we had a good talk he listend and was very understanding ...i see that he wasnts to fix thing and that he loves me and that he is sorry for what he did ... i finally feel that he is not only sorry about beeing in truble with the church but also for the pain he has cause me ... we had a great weekend togrther, i obously feel better when we are together - when we are appart i get insecure and paranoid . i think thats only normal considering the situation.. well this morning i told him that i was scared that he would consider a divorce after wednessday again ( he will have his disaplain counsel then ) ----- but he said that he didnt think that that would happen and that he didnt want to feel that way and that he would try to not think that way.. and i know it wont be ez but i belive that if we can once again have our eternal marrige it will all be woth it --------- i am really worried and i pry that he wont get exco- i think this might make things harder . but only god knows whats best -------

you know one of the bigest problem we had in out marrige was the lack of sex . for some reason i just was not interested i didnt like it and i never wanted it ....... this was a really big problem. but i didnt understand it --- last year i finaly understood that sex and physical contact but mostly sex is the way he feels love ---- so for a long time he felt unlove and rejected day after day --- this cause him to seek self love --- and his porn addiction came back - now i had no idea he was addictied to porn .. but he said that it escaleted from there -- i dont know how it went from porn to prostitus, but it did . ( ok well this is the explanation he gave me .. be was upset and went for a drive and saw one of those male spa places and though that it would be like a gilr in a very lil clothes he says that the idea of going in and the going home to self love was . the plan -- but that it then turn to sex .which by then he says it was like a move ( or a fog he said he felt no control ) ok -------- i say fine i see how something likethat could happen..... he should of never have gone there to begin with and he should of never gone back he said he felat really bad but by then he thougt well im going to hell already so whats the difference ------ anyways i dont want to think of that anymore ----- i m just trying to give you an idea of why he said this happend ....... and how the lack of sex in our marrige had a role in this . he was unhappy and fealt unloved and this is not a reason or excuse to be unfaithful. but he was weak .. he is a good man ( or was a good man at one time and i know that . good man is still in side him , he got so lost in the owrl of porn that satan really got a hold of him..... now he is trying to come back and i can see the old him - every so often at times its so nice that i forget we are going thru this ........

well iam sorry i have been rambleing .. ok well i wil keep trying to be patient and to encourage him.. thank you for listening .. i ll keep praying for you so that ur wife may come home --- or so that u may find the best new wife for u ...


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well today was going well , till he called to say he took the rest of the day off to go help his siter ( take her to pick up her kids )

is it stupid to want to mean more to him then his sister ??? i mean i know the love is different but i feel like he feels she is gods gift to earth , that she is the best women on this earth ( y cuz she has 4 kids and one on the way ?? ) ok to understand wher this is comeing from i have to expalin that they have always been very close which was something i liked at first but now it just seems like she is more important to him like she is better then me in his eyes ---- you see her husband has a flirting problem he flirts with somany girls and she is always worried that he might be cheating ........ and MY H -- get s soooooo mad like how dare he does that to my sister how dare he treats her like that ---------- but HELLO !!! what he did to me was 100 time worse ??? what? does that mean i deserve that. does that mean im not as important to him?... i mean really that really hurts me i told him and he told me not to worry that i meant the world to him also ... i asked if u had to choose me or her ??? ---- he txt dont be dumb --- i m guesssing that measns her ??? ( but i am going thru a hard time ---- my brother is really sick and i have not been over to see him and help him because of all that has been happening in my marrige) and now i feel like my H -- dosent have me as a prioroty over his own sister -------

im getting tierd of not being loved the way i deserve . is it to much to ask to be my H # one prioroty??

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Hi Noche

I can relate to your husband's complaints, unfortunately. My wife was VERY, VERY WILD when I met her, and I helped her repent (at least I thought so), and begin to live the law of chastity. Because of her Borderline Personality Disorder, she went from idealizing me to devaluing me. This actually happened before we got married. I thought maybe she was just going through a phase. It pretty much just got worse continually, with occasional moments of happiness along the way. It was enough to keep me from losing my mind, but there did come a point about 10 years ago, when I told her to either make me happy or set me free so someone else could. Her response was to call her mom and tell her I wanted a divorce. My fault, you see. She had a choice, but she blamed me for the one she chose.

I don't know if all guys are like this, but it looks like I and your husband have this much in common. That's how we feel loved, through intimacy. When my wife withheld it from me, it really damaged our relationship. I felt rejected, unwanted, and given her past and the way it seemed to keep turning up in the present, I felt that she loved her old boyfriends more than me. She even freely admitted as much once. I found some old journals where she talks about wanting to beat me until I was unrecognizable and then go run away with one of her old boyfriends.

I would have to say though, that rather than handle the situation the way he did, your husband should have been up front with you about how not having his needs met affected him. He handled that situation in all the wrong ways, from the sound of things.

Now you're in a situation where you understand his needs, perhaps, but you probably also don't much feel like taking care of his needs after what's happened. I can't imagine how it would feel emotionally to be intimate with my wife knowing that she had recently been completely, physically unfaithful. But then many of the times we were intimate, she would want to do things with me that she did with other guys and I wondered if I was reduced to being a re-run of them, and if she was thinking of me or him/them. What hurt the most was knowing that she did things with them that she liked but didn't like doing them with me. Enough of this.....

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you both are going to have to make some changes for your marriage to survive, even if for now it seems like it already is. He may have been the one who broke his covenants and the commandments, but he does have legitimate needs, and neither of you can be happy as long as you continue to feel insecure and paranoid (some good advice for me to follow as well, I'm sure). Somehow you're going to have to learn to trust him again. Somehow you'll both have to find a balance between his work, relatives, etc., and the attention he pays to you. Would it be possible for his sister to come over to your place, or for you to go with him when he spends time with his sister? Then he could spend time with you both. I don't know, just a thought.

At the end of the day, if he feels that your insecurities are a burden, he has to understand that it is mistakes that he made that made this happen. Maybe he can trace it back to a lack of generosity on your part, but he should have handled that differently. Still, going forward, it's good that you know it's a problem. Somehow, you're going to have to find a way to meet him halfway. I hope that doesn't sound critical of you. I'm sorry if it does. At the risk of exceeding the limits of propriety and good taste, I can tell you that if you are uncomfortable sharing your body with him, there are several other ways you can address his needs. Sometimes this seemed to be important to my wife. Sometimes it even changed her mind about "sharing". Okay, enough of that......

I think every troubled marriage would be stronger if the spouses could agree that spouse comes before all else but God, that all decisions affecting one's spouse ought to be made with that spouse's needs and wants being given equal consideration, and that both spouses should participate in the decision making process whenever possible or practical. I have seen in my own marriage how seemingly unimportant things can be very important to the other spouse, and that repeated failure to take the other's needs and wants into consideration leads to bigger problems and in the end, the weaker of the two will eventually cross the line in a big way. My wife rejected me, turned to others, has finally chosen her mom over me, and now that I have filed for divorce solely for the purpose of getting my children back, she has decided that it's what she wants anyway. She is going to divorce me because she has been failing to appreciate me, what I do for her, my patience with her, what I've suffered and endured for her, and how I've loved her intensely all along the way. She has failed to appreciate me and now is cleaving unto her mother instead of her husband. Her desire is to her mother (and herself) instead of me. She may perhaps not be in need of a Bishop's interview, but she is going to destroy our marriage just the same.

I should be her priority. She should appreciate the things I've given her, the way I let her control all of our money and almost never complained that I had none for myself. She just wanted more and more. And when she asked what I cannot give, she blamed it on me and left me.

I'm coming back to your husband's sister now. Seems to me like you'd be better suited to help her deal with her schmuck husband than your own husband would be. Your husband is effectively throwing rocks from the balcony of his own glass house, whereas you can certainly empathize with what his sister is going through and then some. The smart thing for your brother to do would be to include you in his efforts to comfort his sister, and probably take a back seat as well. And then you wouldn't be left out of his life. I can't help but think that if you, your husband, and his sister (and possibly her husband too) all prayed together and/or spent a night a week together, you might be able to help each other with all your combined problems.

Your husband needs to find more ways to bring you into his life, not less. True, you need show him some trust and not get in the way of his work (that is, after all, how he provides for you), but it sounds like he has more to give than he currently is in terms of his time.

I hope your Bishop can help you two find a balance. I worry that until you do, you're only postponing the inevitable. But maybe I'm just feeling pessimistic because of my own situation.

Oh, one more thing, I just remembered. My best friend (who is very happily married) told me he is a sex addict, but that he keeps it under control with Wellbutrin. I don't know enough about your husband's situation to say more than this. Just FYI.

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well there is something new to learn huh ? lol -- well i know now how truely important it is intamacy in our marrige === all my life i was told sex is bad dont have sex till ur married but once i got married i didnt know what to think of it or how to change it from being bad in my head... but now i have come to the realisation that my H -- needs it -- as dumb as that sounds i have to be able and willing to be there for him in that way .. which is also weird because as much as i hurt somedays -- i am able to be with him in that way ( out of love not fear of loosing him ) i have actualy found that i enjoy it and that he is happy .. he says that when we are intimate often he dosent really have the desiare to look at porn - im glad to hear that i belive that we can make it work and that our marrige will get better from this ....... i wish it would of never gotten to this point but now we have the chance to take a step back look at our marridge and take out the things that make us unhappy and put our marrige back togethere with the things with both need from eachother..... ( its ezer said then done but its a start )

im not sure he is a sex addict -- but that is something that i will bring up when we talk to the bishop and our marriege cousler .. thanks .........

well monday night for FHE we read the changing of the heart talk - and i saw some real progress in him he was honestly sorry for the pain he cause me and he was regretful but ready to do what ever it takes to make things right with god and with me ..

i guess somedays are just going to be good and some realy bad , but the importan thing is that i am no longer trying to save this marrige on my own . :o)

At the end of the day, if he feels that your insecurities are a burden, he has to understand that it is mistakes that he made that made this happen. Maybe he can trace it back to a lack of generosity on your part, but he should have handled that differently. ......

u are righ t nad i have told him that and i think he is finally out of the fog that the porn addiction ad satan had him in to reconized that ..

so she decided to go on with the divorce ?? wow im sorry to hear that .. i truely that when u are ready to move on u will let god guide to the the righ women for you.. good luck with that ( and sorry )

Edited by noche10
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I saw this posted here in these forums, maybe even this thread. I haven't read this book yet, but I plan to someday. I thought I'd share the link with you, since something you said reminded me of this book: - And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage Through Sexual Fulfillment

From the sound of things, I doubt this would explain what my wife's hangups were, but it still sounds like a pretty insightful book, from the reviews I read on it.

As for my wife, we have not gotten divorced yet. We were supposed to go to court last week, but her lawyer got a continuance and there has not been a new court date yet. I finally got her to talk to me this week, and I asked her if there was any hope for us, and she said "I don't know", not in a somber way, but in a lackadaisical one, as if she really didn't care and that was the nicest way she could think of to say it.

She never really appreciated me. I don't think that she'll remember how much she used to love me and how much I once meant to her until it's too late and I've remarried.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you and your husband are communicating better now. You both need to always strive to understand each others' needs and wants. I think that was the root problem before, from the sound of things, and it sounds like you're addressing the heart of the matter now. Good for you!!!! Glad to see your marriage is probably going to make it!!

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Thanks again Noche, you're very kind to say those things to me. Being a codependent married to someone with BPD for over 13 years, I've had my self esteem taken to the lowest depths I could ever have imagined. It's not a good match for me, but I see Father's wisdom in it, thanks to a friend of mine. He told me that someone like me is the only kind of person who would have held on to her for so long, or want to keep holding on. Are most guys just less forgiving than I've been? I find it hard to believe I'm all that special. But then, every guy but my Bishop that I've ever talked to about it (in and out of the Church, and the ones in the Church have mostly been very honorable men) has told me there's no way they'd put up with even an isolated fraction of the pain she's put me through over the years.

I didn't mean to imply that your husband is an "addict". Sorry about that. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility, and relating how my friend deals with his. I guess, from the point of view of people like my wife, all men are "addicts". Speaking for me, it was something I always looked forward to, round about when I turned 13. But I also knew it was forbidden before marriage, so I held it out for myself as a reward for abstinence before marriage. It was a reward I fully intended and still do intend to claim. I feel that I earned it, and that anyone who honors the law of chastity has earned it. My wife did things rather differently. I have no idea how to explain to myself why, for her, it was so thrilling, exciting, and frequently done before and it's so disgusting (her own word) now. For me, it's the other way around.

I can understand your husband's need for you. I can imagine his frustration in the past, though I handled my own frustration differently. A marriage counselor my wife and I once saw told us that ignoring my needs was like pretending she could stop her monthly cycles. Yeah, it means that much to a man. For me, I always told my wife that's how I most naturally felt loved, or rejected, if that was the case. When she was selfish it really hurt me emotionally. Most of my happiest memories of her involve her sharing that intimate embrace with me, especially in creative, thoughtful, and imaginative ways. It's a very sacred and passionate thing for me, and from the sound of things, your husband can relate. I'd go so far as to say that it sounds, based on what you've said, that if you two are able to continue a more healthy relationship (in every sense, which sounds like it's the case), I'd say I think you're going to make it.

I personally am very, very happy to see the chance for your marriage's survival that now exists. I'm glad to see you're likely not going to suffer the same fate as me. I thank God for that. I don't want to see what I'm going through happen to anyone else, ever. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and I can be the most vindictive and unforgiving person that I know sometimes.

Sounds like you and your husband are both doing the right things and heading in the right direction. Keep it up! God bless you both.

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I've been reading your comments this week...incredible how much your situation is similar to mine.

Except that I've been enduring my wife's boorish behavior for well over 20 years. It was only this past couple of years that I came across the book "Stop Walking on Eggshell" and then had the revelation that she's realy messed up. In addition, I see the same behavior in her mother. Go figure.

I'm also at my wits end. Nothing that I do or say will ever please her; any attempts to reach out only backfire. The most pain comes from figuring out that she has had emotional affairs throughout our marriage. She has also been carrying out a campaign of deception amongst our mutual friends and family, and our Bishop.

Like you, we were married in the Temple, so it's not so easy to move forward. Not sure how long I can hold out hope. Thanks for listening.

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While I'm not qualified to diagnose my wife, my best friend has a very strong background in psychology (his Dad is a very talented psychologist and a lot of it has rubbed off on him), and he and his Dad are both convinced that my wife has Borderline Personality Disorder, which, by the way, is hereditary. It also tends to show up as part of a "cocktail" of behavioral disorders and psychological problems, especially depression. Conventional belief is that 75% of people with BPD are women.

It's so sad to see this happening to you too. I am hoping that we can all learn from what has happened not only to me but to other people before me. I am also hoping that the Brethren will speak very directly and bluntly about marital propriety and the need for husband and wife to put each other first instead of after relatives, friends, neighbors, etc. My wife has basically left me for her mother. She just can't seem to cut the umbilical cord.

I know that someday I will find someone to whom I can give all of myself in every way, and who will give me all of herself too, holding nothing back. I just wish it could have been my current wife, the only wife I've ever had. I saved myself for her, and I don't ever want to give myself to anyone else. But this is a decision she is making for both of us, and has been since she was about 12 years old or maybe younger.

She says she fell out of love with me before we got married. She got bored with me. I remember her chasing me around her parents' kitchen table because after her repeatedly refusing to let me kiss her, I stopped letting her kiss me. She laughed like it was cute, or a game. I was in a lot of pain and didn't think it was funny at all. It's only gotten worse since then.

I guess a more pragmatic person would have left her back then. But I am not a quitter. I have held on, and forgiven her for things that even taken one at a time, most men would not have put up with. I believed in her when no one else would have. I stood by her when no one else would have. I gave her even more than I could, kind of like that song "No Ordinary Love" by Sade. Aside from the natural maturation process, I had to grow and become a larger person inside just to keep up with forgiving her and loving her when she made it so difficult to do so. Even now, I'd take her back if she would come back to me. But she wants the divorce. She thinks I'm worthless, easily replaceable, and the sole source of all her problems. She will someday find out that is nowhere near true. The worst part is that I will have moved on by then and found happiness with someone else (I only know this through personal revelation, not because I have any self esteem left), and until the end of time I will be so concerned about her well being and happiness that it will hurt me to see her have to face that. I hurt for the hurt she has caused herself, and because of the situation she's put me in against my will, has forced me to cause her.

I love her truly, enough to die for her knowing that while I'm doing it, she still hates me. If my children can meet someone who cares that much for them someday, I will be overwhelmed with gratitude to Heavenly Father. But my wife is simply incapable of appreciating what matters.

I blame part of this on what I have heard referred to as "Cultural Mormons". I live in a place with a very low concentration of LDS, and am a convert on top of that. A large part of my testimony is made of knowing the Gospel and Church are true by being able to see the difference between it and other Churches, from personal experience. Yet, I also know that there is goodness to be found in people outside the Church, and that mere membership in the Church doesn't make one a good person. My wife's sister is a monster. Her membership in the Church is a social matter rather than a spiritual one. It's all about listening to the right music, talking about the right things, knowing the right people, wearing the right clothes and hair, etc. She uses her membership in the Church to provide herself with an ivory tower from which she can cast stones at people for not measuring up to her expectations, formed on the basis of beliefs she holds which are not doctrinally supported or spiritually legitimate. It's the scribes and Pharisees all over again. My stepmother put it very succinctly and insightfully when she said "I don't get it; they can't have a Dr. Pepper but they can abandon their spouse and take his children away from him?" (I don’t mean to offend those who don’t drink caffienated beverages)

Time to get off that soap box. Sorry about that.

None of this would be happening, regardless of my wife's mental state, if she would simply keep her Temple covenants. Those of us who have been through the Temple know what covenants my wife has made, and that she is required to obey my counsel as I obey Heavenly Father's. I have been a welcome mat to her have almost never demanded that she obey me in anything. The one occasion I did was when I caught her writing love letters to an old boyfriend that she was then hanging out with while visiting her mother, over 1300 miles away from me. I couldn't do anything else about it, so I demanded in the name of Jesus Christ that she come back home. It didn't work then and it wouldn't work now, because a lot of people from that part of the country pick and choose what they believe when it comes to the Gospel. Those people can be so prideful, thinking they're so perfect because they show face at Church on Sunday, have the appearance of a Christian, interact with others and show off the image they're trying to sell, and revel all the time in their supposed piety. Meanwhile, inwardly, they are like whitewashed sepulchers, filled with dead mens' bones.

There I go again. Sorry.

Well Dude, I guess the question is what are people like you and I supposed to do?

I can complain about the way things aren't. Actually, it's cathartic to impotently whine about it, even though I know I can't change the way things are. It really helps that my best friend provides me with free, daily counseling services and a multiple night a week place to go and watch movies, britcoms and generally take my mind off my troubles. And on top of that, pretty much everyone I know has offered me some words of comfort at some point, all individually contributing a unique and essential voice to a symphony of support that has kept me from ending it all, a temptation that still haunts me but is kept at bay. I hope you have similar support available to you. Regardless, know that I've already been praying for anyone and everyone who is going through a similar situation, and from now on I'll mention you specifically, in addition to Noche and others I've encountered here who are having their hearts and souls torn to pieces by others in the name of love.

I've come a long way in the six months since my wife left me, though I still cry nearly ever day. To me, marriage, especially Temple marriage, is just about the most sacred thing imaginable. Letting go has been simply impossible, yet the situation forces me every day to try my best. My best is getting better. My strength is slowly increasing.

I have learned to stop blaming myself for my wife's inability to appreciate all I've done for her, all I've given her, all I've sacrificed for her, all I've forgiven, all the love I've shown (most of which remains unacknowledged), and all I've endured for her. I've learned to stop blaming myself for her loving every last one of her relatives more than me, in addition to the barren wasteland where they all live (I happen to live about four hours south of where the Garden of Eden once was, and it often is easy to see echoes of that natural beauty). I've learned to stop blaming myself for not abandoning the best job I'll ever have, working for the best employer I've ever had (my bosses have repeatedly expressed sympathy and understanding and offered personal help, off the clock), a job which allows me to earn far more than most jobs in this part of the country tend to pay (which allows for a pretty decent standard of living, not to mention the most affordable health insurance I've ever had which used to even be free of charge). I've learned to stop blaming myself for not walking away from a house that took a year to sell when we bought it (in a much better economy than now), which would probably appraise for somewhere around 60% of what I owe on it, and which costs over $1000 a month. Yeah, I could do that, let the house go into foreclosure, move out there without a job waiting for me (like I could find one as good as mine if I tried), be an unemployed houseguest in my mother in law's house, along with my family, ruin my credit, and thereby not being able to get another good job again for a long time (employers check credit reports now). Would that be fair to my children? It wouldn't be fair to my wife, though it's what she thinks she wants me to do, or at least did before she got served the divorce papers.

Now she just hates me and wants to erase me from her life. The sad thing is that she has already done so in every way but legally. She started when she fell out of love with me before we even got married. And that happened after she demanded that I leave everything behind and move out to where she was (is anyone else getting deja vu?). She has entirely forgotten what I once meant to her, and how much she once loved me. If there is any hope for saving my marriage now, it's hidden away in Heavenly Father's pocket.

So I've allowed myself to imagine being married to someone who treats me the way I treat them. Someone who doesn't have a yucky past that she's still clinging to and comparing me unfavorably against, even though what we have is sacred and what they had...... not even close. I've allowed myself to believe I might someday be married to someone who will greet me most days with a smile and a kiss or hug, instead of screaming, snarling, and contempt without any provocation whatsoever. I've allowed myself to imagine being married to a woman who will give her entire being to me instead of putting up ridiculous boundaries, walls, and limitations, who will not hold back her love or play stupid, unhealthy head games with me. I imagine a woman who, if she does have a past, has gotten over it and won't let it come between us, and who certainly won't refuse me what she very enthusiastically enjoyed with someone else.

I've also allowed myself to imagine being married to someone who won't call her own children, my children, in public or private, quote, “G.D. retards” when she gets angry at them, if indeed she ever gets anywhere near as angry and out of control as my wife often does. I've allowed myself to imagine being married to a woman who won't start swinging her fists and feet at me or her own children, my children, when she gets angry.

I've allowed myself the luxury of believing I might one day be married to a woman who won’t make promises she can’t keep because she turns into a completely different person and never changes back except temporarily and on rare occasions. I’m talking about a woman who will treat me with respect and common courtesy, rather than ridiculing me while I'm trying to share my soul with her, who belittles my testimony in public, speaks to me in public with open hostility and contempt, and generally robs me of my self esteem day by day until I'm little more than a neurotic mess, a wreck of a human being.

The fact that I still love my wife after all of this should really say something. I've allowed myself the luxury of imagining being married to a woman who is capable of loving me back just this much, though I swear I'll never test her love this thoroughly!

One guilty pleasure I've allowed myself is to browse at some of the LDS dating websites. Please bare in mind that my wife left me six months ago and I'm just now doing this. After being gone one month, she was already talking about what she wanted in her next man. I have not registered yet or made any attempts to contact anyone, and won't until I'm legally single again. But just browsing, I've allowed myself to see what Heavenly Father has to offer me, or at least a glimpse of it. I know He will restore to me what is about to be lost through no real fault of mine. But seeing how many good, LDS women are out there looking for someone like me is really encouraging. It has helped me recover some of my self esteem and confidence, especially when I read what they are looking for in a man and I know I can fulfill those needs easily. I guess you could say I've been through "marriage boot camp", in a way. What my wife is throwing away as if it were smelly garbage, I know will fall into the hands of a sweet, kind, and warm woman who has just as much a right to the sort of blessings Heavenly Father gave my wife, but who will appreciate them and be grateful, and who will return those same blessings.

In the meantime though, Dude, people like you and me still have a lot of pain to deal with, more than the English language is capable of describing. How can you describe to someone else the way it feels to have your soul torn to shreds because you live in the house where your wife and children used to live until she left you, how it feels to look at the kitchen table where you all used to eat as a family, how it feels to sleep alone in the same bed in which you once held each other tight and looked into each others’ eyes, how it feels to flee the pain you feel as the memories attached to one room by going to another, only to face other, equally sacred memories, which cause emotional torment proportional to the sanctity of the memories you still treasure so much, even the seemingly fleeting and trivial ones? How can you express to someone what this feels like? You cannot. I never understood what my friends went through when their first wives left them. I tried to be there for them, but I didn’t have a clue just how strong the pain they were going through was, and I had no idea what to say to them. Sometimes, with all the pain in my heart and soul, with all the fear of the actual end of my marriage in addition to this long time I have been abandoned and discarded like a soiled diaper, with the fear of having to take care of my kids all by myself when I don’t know what their daily routine is or how to be both a mother and a father at the same time? How do I go back to being just a lonely man all by myself when I’ve spent the last 14 years being part of something special that completed me? And now I know what was missing before, and what will be missing again. I was blissfully ignorant before, but my other half is slowly being torn from me, and it feels like being emotionally disemboweled, or skinned alive. And on top of this, I still have the bills to pay, a job to do (even though it can be pretty difficult to focus on work). Sometimes, with all this pain inside, all these worries, I feel like I have a mountain on my shoulders, and I feel myself start to bend and sink under the weight. But there is always someone out there you can talk to who is farther along in the process than you are. One person I know who very recently has been through what we're going through is ryanh, here at the forums. He's PM'd me a little about his situation. It helps a lot to be able to get a glimpse of your own future when you're in this much pain, and ryanh's present is a good indication of my near future. It might help you to talk to him if you haven't already.

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Divine assistance is the best hope I have. I have tried to let the Savior's atoning sacrifice bring me the healing I need. Personal revelations have been an invaluable help to me. One that I had told me that "No matter how this turns out, you're going to be okay." Another one offered me a blessing in the Celestial Kingdom so significant and sacred that I can't discuss it, but all I have to do to qualify for it is be the best husband and father I can be. Of course, I can be the best husband in the world and my wife will still want a divorce, but I'm doing my part anyway. And I will be a husband again someday after she is rid of me. As far as whether or not I should move out there, I prayed about that over and over and over again. My mother in law had me convinced that I had no option, that my wife has a medicinal need to live there and will kill herself if she ever comes back here. But every single time I've prayed about this, the answer has consistently been to stay here and develop the talents (both proverbial and literal) that Heavenly Father has given me. He has given me more callings, a closer relationship with my own relatives, and now my non member Dad is trying to beat his alcoholism, and I need to be here for him. I also happen to know that it would be much better for my children to grow up here then around my wife's sister, who within the last year or so, accused my mother in law of covering up molestation of my wife by her brother when they were children. I know my wife's brother and her sister, and I can tell you that her sister is lying. None of my relatives do ugly things like that.

There's no denying that the truth hurts, but I still have to accept it. My wife is not coming back. She cannot be reasoned with. My appeals to her fall on deaf ears, as do all my sweet words of love, which I still offer. She never appreciated me and probably never will, at least not until it's too late. She has a behavioral disorder that I cannot fix for her. Only she, with the assistance of adequate psychiatric treatment and likely the correct medication, can fix what's wrong with her. She has choices to make and continually makes the wrong ones. Our Bishop counseled her before she left not to go (back then it was only going to be a month long visit), and that she should be counseling with me instead of with her mother. She did not do as the Bishop advised. She very rarely did as I advised while functioning as the Priesthood Holder in our home. She normally dominated me (I’m passive and codependent) rather than accepting my counsel or even showing me simple respect. There were happy times, as well as times when everything was just so utterly normal and mundane that the time just flew right by, and there were times that she simply made me feel very loved and happy to be with her. I have to accept that along with all the misery she caused me, which I will soon be free of, I will also be haunted by these sacred memories of happy times with her. There were times when she enthusiastically and creatively saw to my emotional needs, in the way most men require, as well as in various others which were also appreciated. Sometimes she was simply a darling, charming sweetheart. I have to let go of that. I have to hope and believe that Heavenly Father will restore what the locusts ate. I am going through the trials of Job, and if I am faithful, I trust that Father will make me whole again just like He did with Job. It doesn't make all the pain go away, but it helps to know that I will eventually land on my feet. I am trying to redirect my energy into looking forward with anticipation toward the future, though I still love my wife and am still leaving every door open for her to come back to me that I possibly can, as my Bishop has counseled me to do, though my personal interest in doing so is fading, and all hope of that is long gone.

Something ryanh shared with me that a friend of his who is a Bishop told him: right now, my focus has to shift to my children, and to doing what is best for them. It's all I really need to concern myself with for now.

I don't know how long I can give my wife after the divorce before I stop waiting for her, but sometimes what I feel like doing is coming home straight from court, when the day finally comes, and registering on every LDS dating website I know of, and I know of at least 10 of them. But for now, and probably then too, my priority needs to be the children. For so long my priority has been my wife, above the kids, and that's how it should be. But that will have to change for a time. I don't know how long, but right now my top priority is calling my boys every night, and reading scriptures over the phone with the oldest.

Another thing I'm doing is putting hope into what will happen on the other side of the veil. One day I had a daydream of my wife and I standing before God on judgment day. Now, I have long believed that we will be judged not only as individuals, but also as families, in that, we will each individually be asked if we want to remain sealed to each member of our families. I also suspect that we may be called on to testify at the judgment of others, on their behalf or against them, as Father may request. Well, in this daydream, I envisioned Father judging my wife, His daughter whom He loves more deeply than I can comprehend. I don't know exactly what was said, but He said something to the effect that He knew she had a behavioral disorder, and it did earn her some leniency, but that she had exceeded that leniency in the way she had mistreated me over the years. I saw my wife crying profusely, wailing, and then bury her face in her hands and bow as one barely able to remain standing, as if she were about to curl up in the fetal position, but felt compelled to remain standing. Next, with my eyes still fixed on my wife and remaining there, Father asked me if I still wanted her, if I still wanted to be sealed to her, and if I had forgiven her for everything that she had done to me. I said yes without hesitation, but with absolute solemnity.

So what I'm hoping is that if I lose my wife (pretty much a given), even if she remarries, and even if she manages to get sealed to another man (to which I will not consent, unless, perhaps, and even then ONLY perhaps, if my next wife demands it repeatedly and the Spirit constrains me to comply). I can and I fully intend to remain sealed to my wife even if I remarry in the Temple or am later sealed to another wife. Just because I have to lose my wife in this life, because of her poor choices, doesn't mean I have to have my sealing revoked against my will. She means infinitely more to me than just a ticket into the Celestial Kingdom, which I could trade for another. She is irreplaceable to me. She is precious and I refuse to throw her away as she has thrown me away. While I'm losing her now, I may eventually end up with even more than I had before. Maybe part of the reason this is happening is so I can prove my worth to Father as a Husband. I know I have already proven my love for her to Him, but that's a long story I won't get into right this minute.

Dude, please, please, please don't give up. If you've made half the effort I have to make your wife feel loved and appreciated, you deserve all the happiness you could ever want and much more. Father sees, He knows, and your deeds and words are recorded in Heaven. He will reward and avenge, though people like us still have to forgive and behave in a Christ-like manner at all times. Now, in my situation, with the kids being taken from me (don’t know if that also happened to you) and time running out to keep them from becoming legal residents of another state with awful divorce laws and an eventual ex-wife who would gladly make use of them, I had no choice but to file for divorce, even though it remains the last thing I want. I filed, but I don't have to pursue the divorce to get the kids back here. My wife and I can reconcile and not get a divorce even if I don't dismiss the case. I could just decide to cancel the court date, but I won't do that until the kids are back, and my wife has agreed to get the help she needs in order to be able to live with her husband, in our house, without running off again. That's a pretty tall order, if you know my wife. I really doubt it will happen, especially with her sister, brother in law, mother, and others pumping her full of venom and bizarre beliefs of a Matriarchal order and rejection of Priesthood Authority that somehow has a place in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I did not file for a divorce because I want one. I only filed to get the kids back. While they're not back yet, I have prevented them from becoming legal residents of another state. When my wife and I do go to court, it will be here, where we have some of the most fair divorce laws in the country, and she will not be able to take them away from me again unless she gets full custody, which she will likely not. The courts here are fair to men.

She can blame the divorce on me, but it's what she's wanted for a very, very long time. I will not pursue it. It will be her decision, not mine. My conscience is clear. I will be able to look back without regret when this is over. There is nothing I fear more than regret. Mistakes can be learned from and repented of, but some regret is forever. I believe that in the Celestial Kingdom I will not have to regret another's mistakes, only my own, at least perhaps if I have not repented of them.

Dude, please feel free to share what you're going through if you are comfortable, whether in this thread or a PM. I can tell you what has helped me, and I hope you can tell me what is working for you. Sometimes just having someone to listen to you helps. There's a lot more I can say about what has helped me, but I'll save it for another post.

Remember, you are a child of God. You are a cosmic Prince, Divine royalty, and you have the capacity to someday be an exalted being with your own spirit children and worlds without number to add to your glory. In the meantime, you are the beloved son of the God of Abraham, the ultimate power in the universe (or at least the galaxy, for those who've read the Kolob Theorem), and He loves you more deeply than you can imagine. He wants you to be loved, touched, held, kissed, praised, adored, respected, and cherished by one of his daughters who will not abandon you, belittle your relationship with Him, or your worth as a human being. He has one for you, and maybe your wife is it, maybe not. Time and the choices you both make will tell. Make the best choices you can, and I believe Father will tell you, like He told me: "No matter how this turns out, you're going to be okay."

Edited by its_Chet
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I am dying to know how things are going. I KNOW how you feel and can completely understand your dilemma in not being sure in fighting for the marriage or ending it. I am currently going through the same thing. Except I have 2 kids, which complicates things. I think if we had no kids I'd be gone, but it's difficult to even say that. Once you're in the situation everything changes, your thoughts, views, everything. I would say be patient, be patient, be patient. What does it matter if you wait several months or a year to get divorced? I would take some time, things are still raw. My stk pres, father, and the counselor I am seeing have all counseled my to be patient. I found out about my H's lies about 3 weeks ago, right after he left for 2 months of training for work. So I am on my own dealing with this for now, but it's been a blessing to be honest. I would say that your husband is a sex addict, if he views porn and has had sexual encounters it's SERIOUS business. I would recommend seeing a counselor who specializes in sex addiciton. I just started seeing one and it's been great to know what I am up against and to feel a little more understood. I started reading a book as well entitled confronting pornography. you can get it from DB, it's been very enlightening thus far. Highly recommend it. Best wishes to you and prayers as well.

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hey iut doors ,

i am sorry to hear you are going thru something like this ... its painful and i dont wish it on anyone .... well things here are not much different we are still working on saveing our marrige - some days are ok and some like today are really hard !!!

the only thing i can tell you is yes patience helps but , more then anything pray and ask god what is best for you and allow him to guide you completly .. this is what i did and i have not dough that staying and saveing and fixing my marrige is what is right for us .... since i have last witten anything my H had his disapleane councel, again i prayied all day hopeing that he would not get excommunicating , and also asking if he did would leaveing and ending the marrige be the right thing ....... well he was not excpmunicated .. and so we are working on things ... but like i said some days are ok and some days are not good at all........ today i woke up feelng hurt and betrayid ..... but hopefully today will b over soon and tomorrow will be better

good luck to you

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well today is not much better then yesturday ...... i was so upset and so insecure yesturday that i txt him all day and made him mad ----- he even got a mindgrain when he got home he was sick and angry this morning i told him i was sorry and asked if we were ok he said NO -- and that he dosent want to talk about it now ------ so i came to work -- now im worried that we are back where we started and that he wants a divorce again........ some days i get so insecure that i dont think right i cant trust him and it makes things harder ....... but he needs to be patient also , i mean i never acted like this till he did what he did ...............

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