Infidelity

[noche10]

wow thanks guys for coming to my defense )

but i have to admit that i took a cpiple of days to think about what rico said

The pain is still there because it's you who is hurting. It's you who needs the help to get beyond things. That anger you now feel for your husband is coming from the Adversary. He wants you to remember the things your husband did and he wants you to avoid truly forgiving your husband.

Be strong and move forward because one thing is certain, Satan wants your family to fail. He wants it broken up. Your husband fell into his trap when he chose to cheat. When you accepted your husband's apology, you made it clear that you wouldn't let Satan break up your family. Now Satan is working on you.

This is where turning to Heavenly Father and truly accepting the power of the atonement can help you. Go to Heavenly Father and pray for strength every time your thoughts go back to remembering what you have already forgiven.

Whatever you do, stop wallowing in your tears. The power of the atonement isn't just for your husband, it's for you as well.

and well he has a point ,, my H is doing everything he can to make things right and now satan is trying to get me to break the covenants i made and we are so despreratly trying to save .... but as always i have found stragth and courage thru prayer and ur advise thank you ....... i am feeling better i have a better prespective .. but it is hard to keep this feeling - its a strugle - i mean one day like today i feel great i love my h and i reay to move foward and well mayb e tomorrow wont be so good . but i think we can get thru this ...............

thanks chet !!!

Hang in there Noche! If the man you fell in love with still exists, hold on to him and help him find his way back (remember that he needs support and kindness too, because he has a lot of shame on his shoulders and is only gradually coming to realize how much). for reminding me why i staid in the first place :)

[Guest mirancs8]

Thanks crazypotato. You may be correct on all counts. This much I know. She used to complain that there was too much "man-bashing" going on in the Church, even during General Conference. I remember a conversation I had with her on the phone back in September in which she was talking like the most embittered bra burner I ever met. Her mind has always been very easily swayed, and I can tell someone's been working on her.

It's interesting to note that she has listed her current psychiatrist, the psychiatrist she was seeing before she left me, and a friend of her mom's who is allegedly qualified to testify about "general mental well being", all as expert witnesses at our divorce hearings.

I'm hoping that when the judge sees that she wants virtually every piece of furniture in the house, without a house of her own to put it all in, that she wants alimony, that she wants full custody of the children, and that she's accused me of emotional, verbal, sexual, and physical abuse of her and physical abuse of the children, he'll take her with a grain of salt.

Can you even believe you are going through this right now? I get a headache just thinking about it all. Being in the middle of a divorce myself it's always interesting to read the mans perspective of going through a divorce situation. You must feel like you are being attacked by her and her family right now. It always makes things complicated when your ex's family start to get involved. It's sad that it has to go to such a degree between you both. My ex as well is completely unstable and unpredictable.

Hopefully soon you'll be able to take a deep breath and know that you are ready to move forward. Unfortunately you can't change her.

[crazypotato]

I think that the Lord knows what is in people's hearts. I don't like the word victim, though. Rico is actually right that it is not productive, it is just his tone of the letter that was a bit harsh and forgiveness takes years. Forgiveness of others for major hurts is not something that the Lord expects us to rush into. It takes time.

From my own life's observations, a lot of people blame their divorces all on their spouses, but unfortunately, it may be easier to heal and move on to a better relationship if you can humbly see your own faults in the marriage. Not with the attitude of, "sure, I have my faults, but my ex is . . . . .. . !" So we all tend to minimize our faults as not very serious or within reason, and our crazy spouse as the psycho one. It takes a lot of humility to ask the Lord to show you what your faults were in the marriage. But once someone does this, it is much easier to forgive your spouse, and also much better for yourself even if you are divorcing.

I know from my experience in marriage counseling, like I was telling Chet, was actually very unproductive. It is easy to find counselors that men bash and help the woman to label herself as a victim of a mean husband. This only makes the man never want to go to counseling again and/or feel very discouraged. And it keeps the woman angry at her man because as long as you are a victim, you feel like you have little to no control. I know lots of men that are terribly rude to their spouses but are blind to it, and even more women that demean their husbands continuously, nag and run their marriages, always throwing in their husband's faces their own faults. I think these people are blind to a lot of their own behavior and a lot of this may drive spouses to affairs, porn, whatever. I am not justifying bad behavior, but there are always two sides to every story, and your ex's side is hard to take as seriously as your own.

Just my humble opinion.

[Guest mirancs8]

From my own life's observations, a lot of people blame their divorces all on their spouses, but unfortunately, it may be easier to heal and move on to a better relationship if you can humbly see your own faults in the marriage. Not with the attitude of, "sure, I have my faults, but my ex is . . . . .. . !" So we all tend to minimize our faults as not very serious or within reason, and our crazy spouse as the psycho one. It takes a lot of humility to ask the Lord to show you what your faults were in the marriage. But once someone does this, it is much easier to forgive your spouse, and also much better for yourself even if you are divorcing.

As we already know it takes 2 to make a marriage but it can take one highly disassociated spouse to destroy it. Yes it will at times seem like when we write we are giving it one sided, but I'm sure we do see our part in the crumbing of our marriages.

Speaking for myself I know what my faults were and I do own up to them. BUT I do believe that it can take one spouse to completely disassociate themselves from the foundation of the marriage for it to crumble beyond repair. A spouse that no matter what they say or promise they are going to do they never follow through. You then find yourself working endlessly to carry not only your own burdens, but that of your spouse as well through the turbulent times.

We all must acknowledge our part in whatever happens in our lives though not always easy to do. It does take a lot of humility I agree. When the time comes that I would be dating I would have so much more respect for a man who owned up to his part (that is if he was married before). We are all not perfect. It didn't take me much time to acknowledge my part but my ex... well let's just say he's not anywhere near that point .

[Iggy]

Why is it that when you click on noche10 all that comes up is the Home page of LDS.net. You also can't find her in the members list. Why? Also, why after 61 posts she is just a member and not a junior member???

She posts here about her husband having an affair, and her spelling is awful. Then in another thread she claims that he is addicted to pornography - "What is a spouse to do?"

Is this a bot?

Edited March 20, 2010 by Iggy

[mrmn_honeybee]

Noche10, I just want to extend to you the invitation; if you ever want to just talk about what you're going thru, having been thru a very similar experience myself in the last year, I would be more than happy to listen and try and lend any experience gained. You are not alone and you don't need to feel alone. <3

[noche10]

thank you mrmm_ honey bee that mean s a lot

[noche10]

Why is it that when you click on noche10 all that comes up is the Home page of LDS.net. You also can't find her in the members list. Why? Also, why after 61 posts she is just a member and not a junior member???

She posts here about her husband having an affair, and her spelling is awful. Then in another thread she claims that he is addicted to pornography - "What is a spouse to do?"

Is this a bot?

yes i know my spelling is bad !!!!!!! and yes i did write on that post but its not mine --------------

so whats ur point ???

[its_Chet]

Speaking for myself I know what my faults were and I do own up to them. BUT I do believe that it can take one spouse to completely disassociate themselves from the foundation of the marriage for it to crumble beyond repair. A spouse that no matter what they say or promise they are going to do they never follow through. You then find yourself working endlessly to carry not only your own burdens, but that of your spouse as well through the turbulent times.

Thank you both, crazypotato and mirancs8. You both have made excellent points and I agree with you both (not to imply that you're disagreeing with each other).

After my wife left me, I began analyzing the last 14 years of my life, particularly the final year before she left, in order to better understand what happened to us, to what I believed we had together. I realized fairly quickly that I had made some mistakes that contributed to her decision not to come back from her visit out there. Beyond that, there were a lot of things I did that were not necessarily wrong, but she didn't like them. They might as well have been wrong, for in her mind they were. I could have changed a lot about who I was, and maybe it would have further prolonged my marriage. But the question remains, whether or not that would have been fair, or wise.

If I had the last two years of my life to live all over again, I'd do a few things differently. I know this would have prolonged my marriage. The key word here is "prolonged". I have instant messenger conversations, letters, etc., proof in black and white of her failure to appreciate me. I can take the easy way and blame my own mistakes on that, and I know it's true that at some point, to some degree, I gave up trying because of the rejection I felt. But I also know that my future happiness depends on me transcending my own mistakes, however justified they may have felt to me at the time, or whether or not the disintegration of my marriage was inevitable, which it was. It was inevitable for the simple reason that my wife failed to appreciate me, for several years. You cannot please or impress someone who has decided it is impossible for you to do so, and is as stubborn as she is. When she makes up her mind about something, her prejudice and assumption become the reality. What she decides is impossible becomes impossible. What she decides is necessary becomes necessary.

I am not perfect and made mistakes that hastened the end of my marriage, and for that I am culpable. But on the other hand, I have learned from painful experience that you cannot protect another person from their own bad decisions, as I had tried so hard with my wife. I also learned that despite what I had always believed, you cannot singlehandedly preserve and keep alive a marriage, at least not forever. I tried very hard, and I had a LOT more success than most who are married to people with Borderline Personality Disorder tend to have. But in the end, I discovered that I could not keep my marriage alive on my own.

You cannot cause someone to love you. You cannot cause someone to respect you. You cannot cuase someone to honor you. You cannot even cause someone to reciprocate the love you give them, at least not for more than a brief moment in time. These are decisions others make for themselves, independent of anything we do. The value of the love we give to others is determined by them, not us. This is the painful reality many of us have to learn the hard way. The fact that you are a son or daughter of God does not guarantee that you will be treated as such, even by one whom you shower with affection, attention, honor, love, respect, kindness, friendship, care, and loyalty. And sometimes a person will love you back for a while, but cease after a time. Sometimes love dies, after all you can do to keep it alive and nurture it.

And that alone doesn't make it your fault. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. My marriage is going the way of the people of Ammonihah who believed the Gospel that Alma and Amulek taught them. It's not any more an indictment of me than it is of the believers who were thrown into the fire.

As a child, I swore this would never happen to me. I mistakenly believed that if I just tried hard enough, or married someone I strongly enough believed was the right woman for me, my marriage would be fireproof. It never occurred to me that it takes two people, devoted and committed to each other and their marriage, always allowing Heavenly Father and our Savior's Gospel a place within that marriage, to not only make it thrive, but just to keep it alive.

One person can destroy a marriage all by himself or herself. No matter how hard Heavenly Father and the spouse try to hold on, no matter how long they succeed in doing so, free agency guarantees us all the ability to destroy our marriages. I have prayed so many times for my wife to be made to see what I once meant to her, that her heart be softened and that I find myself back inside it again. But her agency prevents that.

Again, crazypotato and mirancs8 both make oustanding points. Both are correct.

[its_Chet]

yes i know my spelling is bad !!!!!!! and yes i did write on that post but its not mine --------------

so whats ur point ???

Iggy is just suggesting the possibility that you are a bot, or in some way not "on the level". It doesn't look like anyone agrees with that suggestion.

Hope your day is going well Noche. I hope you and your husband find yourselves continually growing closer, that the pain you both feel is continually fading and shrinking, replaced by new and invigorated love, that your marriage will bounce back even stronger than either of you ever believed it was before.

For what it's worth, I am thankful I do not bare on my shoulders the shame your husband must feel. I can't imagine what that's like. Hopefully he takes comfort in trying to make it up to you, in order to redeem himself. But then, we all know there is only one true Redeemer, and that there is no absolute and complete atonement without His assistance.

How thankful I am for Him! How it pains me to think that my sins made His sacrifice necessary! How much I wish I could be perfect so that I could claim no responsibility for what He once suffered, or maybe even lessen it to some degree!

Again, God bless, Noche

[noche10]

thanks

yes things are getting better a lil at the time , he started the addiction recovery program and he sims happy - he now sees a light at the end . i have let my self get hurt and angry and i need to control and keep the spirt of god in me to stay strong .. but at least he is the one now saying it will get better we will ge thru this .......

also i have been under a lot of stress with all this and with my brother being sick please pray for him ? ..... we are praying that the cancer has not spread to his lungs ..

How thankful I am for Him! How it pains me to think that my sins made His sacrifice necessary! How much I wish I could be perfect so that I could claim no responsibility for what He once suffered, or maybe even lessen it to some degree!

woo i never though of it this way ur right ..

[noche10]

i went to my first PA- support group last week ( well the family support ) it was great i left there with hope and the spirit ..... i have been so angry latley its almost like im going backwards at first it was ll love and wanting to help my H . and now i am starting to fell angry and resentfull i dont want to feel that way i want out marrige to be come strong i want to be happy...... he tells me he loves me now more then ever and he is so sorry for putting me thru all this ....... the problem is i dont feel as much love for him as i did ...... i dont see the lil things he is doing to show me love . and i dont always feel it ???

it feels like now i am the problem - like my heart is closed due to hurt -- but in the PA recovey class it says that i am the only one who can change the way i feel ! which i undurstand but not agreen with complely i mean if it wasent for his porn addiction and infidelaty i would not feel this way -- shouldnt he have more responsability on helping restore my pace and my self esteam?

[crazypotato]

"but in the PA recovey class it says that i am the only one who can change the way i feel ! which i undurstand but not agreen with complely i mean if it wasent for his porn addiction and infidelaty i would not feel this way -- shouldnt he have more responsability on helping restore my pace and my self esteam?"

No, they are right. That is really the hard truth at first, but then it is freeing. It is freeing to know that you don't have to depend on other people to make you feel happy. The Holy Ghost gives peace and self-esteem, not other people. Your husband will never be perfect. He will always do things to disappoint you. You have to actively look for the good in him.

I think the more you label yourself as the victim of a husband into PA, the more helpless you will feel as far as being happy and content. You have to not sit and think about it very often. Train your mind to focus on the good in him, but also, don't put all your efforts into the marriage and him right now. Make sure you have other positive things to focus on and think about, so that this is not the only dimension of your life. Otherwise, you will often be depressed and discouraged. Exercise, eat right, read good books, hang out with positive friends, fill your mind with light and truth. Don't watch depressing shows, read depressing books, be around other women that complain about their husbands or lives and are always feeling sorry for themselves.

Focus on Christ and asking him to help you, not your husband. Let your husband work out his own repentance.

[utahgua]

the greatest thing I can see in you is love... I am also having serious problems with my wife now and this because we started to have them by november... after all this time, I finally came to the conclusion that if I wanted to save my marriage I had to confess my years of addiction to pornography and M to the bishop and the he asked me to talk to my wife... I did, and it was really hard specially now that we have been at the edge of divorce...not because I want to divorce, in fact, I realized myself I had to quit the habit (which was not too often) in order to save myself and possible to save my marriage... and I did last year in february, but now that I told her my wife will not trust me, she would not believe this is all that I have done... She wants the divorce, but somehow she is afraid and wants to be safe... I hope is the spirit making her wait while her heart gets healed... but then I read about sisters like you, that are so devoted to their husbands and want to help, that I wonder how comes my wife is not like that...? well I cant hope for more as she is very, very upset, Hopefully she will forgive me... I quit my problem... doing all that I can to save my marriage... I love her, but her love and trust in me is all gone. You are only 28, you will find someone to love you... you deserve better. If The Lord wants you to forgive your husband He will let you know and He will help you, but you need his help... In your situation I believe also that you have the right to make your own decision as he has gone too far and he doesn't love you any more and wants to divorce, only the Lord will make him change... just like my wife, only The Lord will help her forgive me and stop the divorce...

Some of you sisters here, I can't help but to admire for your commitment...

[its_Chet]

it feels like now i am the problem - like my heart is closed due to hurt -- but in the PA recovey class it says that i am the only one who can change the way i feel ! which i undurstand but not agreen with complely i mean if it wasent for his porn addiction and infidelaty i would not feel this way -- shouldnt he have more responsability on helping restore my pace and my self esteam?

Hi there Noche

Glad to hear you're taking this step to take care of yourself, and that you are not willing to quit on your husband. If everyone took marriage as seriously as you, there'd be a lot less divorce. Your resilience, strength, and courage cannot be denied. Never, ever, ever regret the patience you've shown your husband, and your willingness to forgive and heal your marriage. The ideal solution is always to restore and heal a marriage if at all possible, rather than to throw it away like garbage. People make mistakes and need forgiveness, and I congratulate you on knowing this without having to even be told.

I do not envy you the struggle inside you must feel as your desire to forgive is weighed against your desire to have your suffering acknowledged, with your very soul serving as the fulcrum upon which this tremendous weight is balanced. I guess in my own way, I understand the pain, stress, and discouragement you feel. Do you ever feel like you're carrying a mountain on your shoulders, and that you can often feel yourself beginning to sink under the strain of it? Does it ever feel like the burden you bare is ridiculously beyond your ability?

The Lord has chosen to assist me with this trial by sending people to support me, encourage me, advise me, and in some cases even challenge me, such as with extra callings, etc. My Bishop has advised me to throw myself into service, which can be very difficult when it seems some days all I am capable of doing is staring at the walls and crying. He also told me that "Inch by inch, life is a cinch." So I'm taking small steps towards what seems to be a mountain of responsibility that I face.

Can you relate? I suspect you can.

Something I've been noticing for quite some time, both directed toward me and also towards you and others suffering as we are, is this tendency some people have to berate the victim, or practice what is called "tough love". I just realized that with crazypotatoe's post right above this one, it might be inferred I'm accusing her of that, and I want to be clear that I'm not. But my point is that some people can be very blunt when advising someone that they need to adjust their behavior or thought process in some way. Some people can be downright mean about it. I remember when Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, a lot of people blamed her Dad for hiring the guy who kidnapped her, and a lot of them were remarkably ugly about how they did so. I don't know why, but some people are just like that, blaming the victim and giving the guilty party a miss.

Noche, you already know, or are going to discover in the meetings you've correctly and freely decided to attend, that the mistakes your husband made have placed him in a position where he has a tremendously difficult task before him, to repent of so great an offense, to heal you from all the pain he has caused you. Such a monstrous task has got to be intimidating. He cannot do it alone, and would never have made it this far without the encouragement and support you've already shown him. He needs your help, which may seem unfair because with the pain you're in right now, you probably want someone to help you just as much as he does. I don't know enough about what you're dealing with to know if you can help each other, or to what extent, but I pray that the love between you, which obviously has survived, can continue to recover and grow strong, to pull you two back together and shrink the distance that has been growing between you for much longer than either of you realizes.

I suppose if I asked you if you desire for your husband to take you in his arms and hold you, and somehow make this weight on your shoulders go away, you'd say yes. I suppose if I asked him if he desired for you to take you in his arms, tuck his head under your chin, and hold him in your arms and make this awful shame slide off of his shoulders, to not only completely forgive him, but take that shame away from him that will be there until he forgives himself, he'd say yes. You both are carrying an awful burden.

I may be venturing out of my depth right now, given that I'm still going through my own trial by fire, but I suspect that the only way any of us is going to be able to emerge out from under these mountains we carry on our shoulders is to appeal to the Savior, to somehow succeed in getting Him to remove all that weight and trouble. He has removed some of it from me, but there still seems to be so much left for me to deal with. Maybe it's nothing more than I can handle, maybe it's only a portion of what was there before, or would be there if it weren't for all the support I've received from friends and relatives. I believe I'd have pulled the plug on all of this by now without that support, if you get my meaning. And I've heard it said that God does not remove our burdens from us so much as He shapes our backs to bare up under them. That seems to be more in line with my concept of the purpose of mortal life. If I can survive, I will emerge stronger at the end of this fire. I have to rely on my Redeemer for my survival. I cannot do it without Him. He may choose to manifest His assistance through the hands on involvement of my fellow mortals, or my deceased ancestors who have been guiding me from the other side of the veil my whole life, but the fact that He is delegating support of me to others doesn't change the fact that His atoning sacrifice is being applied in my life, to succor this weakened, battered, bleeding soul in his darkest hour.

I may not have been the one to destroy my marriage, but I still avail myself of the benefits of the atonement. It is not primarily sin that is being washed away in the blood of the Lamb, but that helpless feeling that the pain is greater than I am. The Divine aid I am receiving strengthens me enough to survive, even if it does not remove this cup from before me. The bitter dregs remain for me to drink, but I am strengthened to survive. Someday the accumulation of such trials will make me worthy of the crown I will eventually wear. I am a Prince of the Universe (in training). I am a son of the God of Abraham, kid brother to the Savior of the human race. I am not forgotten. I am loved. I am on Their minds, in Their hearts, and They will save me.

[noche10]

crazy potatoe , i guet what ur saying bt i dont get it at the same time !!!!!!! its so frustrating !!!!!!

before all this happend i trusted my husband completely - and now i dont ----- i loved him w all my heart and now i dont as much ------ so are u saying this is my fault that all i need to do is love him and trust him - even if he doent deserve it ????????? dosent he has to earn his trust back and earn the love ??

[noche10]

yes het !!! i do feel that way sometimes like i have the world on my sholders ...... its not ez - i feel how u feel, im sorry you are going thru all this . it sux - i wish no one would go thru this but sadly somanny people are !!!!!!!

i its weird i know my H loves me --- he tells me and trys to show me , he said that if he i could see how much he loves now i would never dought it ... but the problem is im still dealing with the past .... how do i let go completly -- and move foward .... its so hard --- i know he loves me but the did betraid me !! what he did was very bad and hurtfull ...

[baver3]

Its hard to give advice in a situation like this. I never understood why women would stay with their husbands when they had cheated on their wives....and then....IT HAPPENED TO ME.

And what I decided was this: If my husband had been willing to repent and change and fix things, then I would have tried to do my best to make it happen. But he was unwilling and had decided he wanted out. You cant force a person to have desire. You cant force someone to act a certain way. They have their agency. This was a huge lesson for me.

Yes, I was hurt and mad that he cheated. (it wasnt with a prostitute but in my opinion was a mid-life crisis scenario with a girl 13 years his younger). It all felt very cheap and the dispicable thing was that he waived it under my nose, constantly texting her right in front of me and taking her calls.

I dont know what to say to you except for if you are willing to work on it, then hang in there for as long as you can. You will get tired of hanging and you will want to give up. Just stay in there until you think you cant do it any more. At least if it ends you will be able to say that you truly tried everything and gave your all. Something this tragic shouldnt also have a regretful ending that you were too hasty in your decision to leave.

Maybe your husband needs some space to decide what HE really wants. Im sure he feels so guilty and remorseful and ashamed. I would say give him some time to deal with everything. While that is happening do your best to get as spiritually strong as you can. This is going to be critical for you to prepare you for his decision or what happens next.

I wish you the best. It isnt fair for ANYONE to have to suffer this. Do you have kids? If you dont then consider yourself saved from the torture of putting a child through that torment as well.

[Guest mirancs8]

It is a very difficult thing to go through when you husband is viewing porno or having relations with another women (prostitutes, other women etc.). I completely understand that part of you when you feel like you start to love him less and you are more angry then happy with him as each day passes. I had that same feeling and it dragged on for years. It was gradual but as each year passed it just got worse. The more I forgave it just seemed to only get worse. For a bit it would be as if he was on the right path but in no time he was right back to his old ways. He had no desire to repent. He honestly didn't think what he was doing was a big deal. At this point I don't even think he thinks what he did was wrong!

It's going to be tough to stick it out with your own emotions being in the state that they are in. You really should try to work on yourself (maybe see a counselor) so that you can start to tap into that love for your husband. The more you feel the way that you do towards him the more it will hinder your marriage from healing and strengthen. He's not the only one who needs help... you also need to heal.

In my own situation I've come to the realization that I need to address the anger and pain that I am feeling towards him right now (we're in the midst of a divorce). It is important for me to heal and not put it on hold for another day. Sometimes in a time of trial we put our own well being aside when we should be addressing it so we can better to ourselves and move forward. The stronger you become the easier the journey will be for you. I feel stronger with each day but I know I need do certain things during this process (such as going to counseling as well as other things).

You are in my prayers!

[noche10]

yes thank you to you both for ur comments !!

well maybe i havent been very clear lol ----- my H is now the one who is 100% committed i mean he knows what he did was wrong -- he is going thru the 12 step recovery program - as i am -- and he is trying his hardest to not fall back to porn he . says he is doing all of this beacuse he is truely sorry and he really wants to be a better man he wants to be free of this addictions and he wants us to be an eternal family again -- so i am proud of him he is really doing everything he needs to . i am just haveing a hard time letting go and healing ---- maybe i am just beeing to inpatient with my self now -- i want to heal and move foward but i know its a process -- one that i have apperantly skiped and now i have to deal with the pain in order to heal .. but i feel stronger spiritually - and i feel hope that we can move foward - some days are just not as good for me emotionally --

[its_Chet]

Going through what I am going through, having for an ever present and remarkably charitable friend someone who is also very gifted with knowledge of psychology, a past containing some considerable mistakes which he has long ago repented of, and generally a a very good handle on the school of hard knocks and life lessons learned, I can say this has been a tremendous help to me, and the only reason I am still alive. And I truly mean that.

If I were going through what you are, Noche, I'd still need this. Maybe we all would. A friend who keenly understands psychology and can offer free counseling every day over lunch (and he works at the same place I do). A friend who invites me to his house to hang out with his whole family; we watch TV together, really cool shows, really funny shows, that everyone enjoys, that take my mind off my troubles and make me laugh and smile, if only for a little while. They even invite me if they go grocery shopping together as a family (which ends up being a several hour event). My friend listens patiently to me whining about my sad life, at least the parts of it that involve getting my heart broken, or setting myself up for it to happen. Day after day, week after week, month after month, he's been there for me. When my emotions kept me from being able to "get it", to see clearly and understand logically what has happened to me, and how to avoid ever going through it again, he has been there for me, patiently listening, not interrupting, simplifying only when it has been helpful to me and aided in understanding. He let me get all this garbage off my back, off my shoulders. Some of it is going to still be there for a while, but he's helped me get rid of so much of it, that I can begin to stand up on my own two feet and face the future without dread, without despair. I can at least move forward, and I'm making progress toward being the kind of person that I want to be, progress that has been mostly stifled and in some ways set back over the last 14 years, due to the dysfunctional relationship I have been in but am now beginning to emerge from.

Not only has he offered me a sympathetic ear, not only has he offered me psychiatric counseling, not only has he explained to me the madness I've lived through and made me understand what has happened to me, and that so very much of it was not my fault, but he is also a worthy Priesthood holder, a good man who knows the Gospel, a good father who has helped me understand what being a good parent means (which is not necessarily obvious when everything you know about parenting is learned in the partnership of someone with serious behavioral disorders and anger management issues, someone who fills your home with a very bad spirit). My friend has healed me mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

I often wondered where the Savior was, and when I was going to see all the mercy people seem to absent mindedly promise He'll show us. You know, you keep hearing from people who, as far as you know, have no idea what real suffering is that "You should apply the atonement", and that "the Savior will help you through this by succoring you in your time of need." Too often it sounds like empty plattitudes coming from people who are speaking more about belief than knowledge, who can be cheerful because they don't actually know what you're going through, yet still are convinced that they have a simple solution you need to stop "ignoring". I often found myself wondering when the Savior was going to heal me, when all that "talk" was going to come true for me. And then one day I realized that He was doing it through the ministration of friends, relatives, people in my ward, even my employer. Almost everyone I know has made some contribution toward my healing, toward empowering me to survive and live on, with hope that someday I may be happy again. But the single greatest help to me has been my friend, the amateur shrink.

Who wouldn't want a friend like mine in a situation like mine or yours, Noche? From now on, when I pray for you, I'll pray that you can find at least some of the support I have. That you'll find a counselor, friend, relative, whatever, who will help you face every facet of the pain you feel, leaving no stone unturned in your search for healing. You've been wounded on multiple levels, and you must heal that way. Sadly, try as hard as your husband might, the fact that he caused you most of your pain probably makes it impossible for him to heal you all by himself (and it's apparent that he would if he could).

It is my hope that you and your husband will make it through this, devoted to each other, and that in the meantime, you'll receive the kind of charity and healing that I have. Sometimes it helps just to have a friend who will listen until you get it all out.

Keep your chin up Noche. We're all praying for you.

[crazypotato]

crazy potatoe , i guet what ur saying bt i dont get it at the same time !!!!!!! its so frustrating !!!!!!

before all this happend i trusted my husband completely - and now i dont ----- i loved him w all my heart and now i dont as much ------ so are u saying this is my fault that all i need to do is love him and trust him - even if he doent deserve it ????????? dosent he has to earn his trust back and earn the love ??

Wow, how did you get that from what I said? That's okay. Maybe I miscommunicated. I never said to trust him. I remember you saying that you are choosing to stay with your husband and work on your marriage with him. Since that is your decision, based on your own prayer and personal revelation, then you do need to try and love your husband. You don't have to feel madly in love with him and trust him, but try not to see him as only a PA. I am sure that he must have some good qualities, or even some good potential qualities.

If you look for the good in him and love him as a fellow human being, if not romantically, then you are being Christlike. Being Christlike will help you to heal and will help your husband to not feel like a worthless loser. You have no reason to trust him, so don't try. Focus on Christ as your best friend, not your spouse. One day, maybe your spouse will be your best friend for now.

I am suggesting these techniques to you from my own marital experience, from reading a 12-step recovery book, and from another book I read on marriages. These books all helped me to get through some ugly times in my marriage. I am suggesting these things to help you help yourself, so that you can be comforted through the atonement. It's Chet sounds like he is going through a divorce right now and in so much pain. He is coming from a divorce and kids, and I think he has been trying to tell you to lean on a counselor or good friends instead of your spouse, that you were used to leaning on. That is how he is coping, it sounds. I am saying similar- don't lean on your spouse emotionally right now. He can't comfort you. Lean on the Lord and others.

[crazypotato]

And I just wanted to add some compassion for Miranc8 and Baver3 (I think those are their screen names). They had to divorce their husbands because their husbands were not repenting and not trying.

Your husband seems to be trying to repent, and you choose to stay with him. Your situations are different. I would never suggest to Miranc8 or Baver3 to just trust and love their cheating, unrepentant spouses (although I am sure that is what they both tried to do for years). They tried and it was one-sided. But you have a spouse that is wanting to repent and try, so you do need to try and love him, but not romantically right now. When I say love, I mean in a more generic sense. Look at him like a man with weaknesses that made big mistakes, and realize that everyone is a person with weaknesses that makes mistakes and that we all hurt people. Try and think of him as potential, see him as better than he is now, because that is how the Lord sees all of us.

Take care.

[Guest mirancs8]

it_chet I dittos your post. This topic was on my mind this weekend, and it got me very emotional thinking about it. Yes I have family that has been wonderfully supportive and there for me but there is something very different about a friend... a special friend who is there not turning there back. I have a friend who is very dear to me. This friend listens to the same stuff over and over again. Not only does this friend listen to my sob stories but also shares wisdom and comfort in my time of need. Wow this friend has truly been a rock and I can hardly catch my breath at the though of how on earth I will repay this friend by being there in times of need. I sure hope I have been just as much a friend back. There is nothing more solid then a friend who picks up the phone when they sense something isn't right. A friend who just lends an ear to hear your story for the 100th time.

This friend has shared such wonderful wisdom with me through this time in my life, and I so thankful for HF blessing me with such an awesome friend. It amazes me how someone can be so wonderfully selfless to someone they really don't have to do that for. Really we expect that support and comfort from family but I have to say there is something very special about this friend and the support that was and still is given to me.

I don't think that my friend can even begin to put into perspective how appreciative I am of all the awesome wisdom and support that has been given to me. We all need that. We need a true friend who selflessly gives themselves to us when we so desperately need that. A friend that through good and through bad is there as we would be there for them. It's very humbling to me to think back on everything and how much I appreciate that this person is in my life.

My friend has went up and beyond in many ways in supporting and comforting me and I am forever thankful. One of the Lords Tender Mercies is the only way I can describe it. I can't explain how it all came to be but it's one of those experiences when I look back on it and say wow how did this person come into my life. I believe HF is always listening to our prayers, and when he answers it it's a matter of if we are willing to receive his help. Sometimes when we are looking for something divine to happen we end up missing that which is standing next to us... that very special friend.

[macgirl]

I need some advice. I am married to a man that we both want a divorce. We realize that yes, we did make a commitment to each other but it isn't healthy for us to be together, physically and mentally. We separated in October of last year and he then started having an affair with another woman. We are now back to living together because both of our families can't accept that we aren't going to stay together so we are showing them that we can't stand each other and that we are better separated and friends then together as husband and wife. The other Sunday, my husband was pulled into the Bishop's office and told that even thinking about getting a divorce is a sin. We are not active nor were we married in the temple nor are we endowed, we both have been inactive over 5+ years. He has decided that he does want to go back to church but was told that he isn't welcome without me at his side (I am not interested) and that if we get a divorce, the church will not be in his life anymore. I've been looking to find out if anything has been said about a divorce being a sin. We both know that he committed adultery but the Bishop wasn't addressing that when they were talking. Do any of you know if what the Bishop said was true? I am asking this because now, my husband is hesitate on getting a divorce.