Weird question

[annamaureen]

But lets not mock the House of the Lord with our PetsMart affections.

How are we mocking the Lord by showing concern and love for his creations? I don't know if I would ever put a pet's name on the temple prayer roll, but calling them "Petsmart affections" is a little condescending.

I am troubled with those that so value their pets that they think of them as family. I am not sure if they are devaluating children and spouse to the level of animals or so valuating animals to the level of children and spouse.

Just because we love our pets as family doesn't mean we consider them to be "the same" as children and spouse. The same way we love our spouses differently than we love our children, and we love our parents differently than we love our siblings, or our cousins, etc...

[need4peace]

I couldn't resist LOL

[Vanhin]

I love my dog. She's a beautiful red and white Border Collie. Looks just like this.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images12/BorderCollieJadeRedWhiteDSCF0334(2).JPG

However, I would not hesitate to eat her if we had nothing else to eat. And we would bless the "food" before eating it for sure. So there is one way she would get blessed.

I would not even consider eating my children.

Speaking of finances and pets. I am always surprised at the people I meet who are struggling financially and they keep all their dogs. If you have one or two, no biggie, but if you have like 10 dogs and 10 cats or something like that, then that is going too far. Take em out back and send them to the God who created them if you can't find owners for them. They are expensive to feed and care for, and if you can't afford to get them fixed either, it quickly becomes a problem that increases exponentially.

Regards,

Vanhin

[julietta]

I do believe it is okay to, in general, pray for our animals. Praying for their owners is always good, but I don't see anything wrong with having a prayer with the welfare of an animal being an end in itself. However, I am thoroughly convinced that they should not be put on the prayer roll. I don't know if I can really elaborate more than saying that I think it is made apparent in the temple that the prayer roll is intended for individual people, and not for anything else (such as worthy causes).

[georgia2]

As much as I love and appreciate animals, as much as I have prayed for animals and had my prayers answered (my first real experience with G-d answering prayers was as a young boy of eight praying for my dog); I am troubled with those that so value their pets that they think of them as family. I am not sure if they are devaluating children and spouse to the level of animals or so valuating animals to the level of children and spouse. I believe it is abusive to the role of parent and the covenant of marriage to prize, love and treat any animal the same or better than children or spouse but I have sadly seen it done and sincerely hope that this is not the attitude of anyone on this forum.

The Traveler

When I say I LOve my pets as family, I never said I love them as much or equal to that of my children, spouse, or any other human. I love them because the are precious innocent loving and loyal creatures that we have been made stewards over. Unlike children and spouses, they never call you names, are disrespectful or TRY to hurt you. WE are their caretakers. They are totally dependent on us and as Children of God, we show Him we love and respect Him by how we treat His gifts and creations. I not only love my pets, but I also love the other animals throughout the earth who are tortured, mistreated, hunted, and treated like trash. I take care of my pets the best I can. I do not or would not go into debt to secure medical treatment but leave those decisions to the one who gave them life. I feel we all will be accountable for the things we do or don't do for the marvelous gifts given by our Heavenly Parents and the reverence for the life of the animals here is part of our accountability.

I surely hope for and look forward to the time when I can be with my beloved pets through out my life so I can communicate with them and I will be able to understand their communication with me. I also look forward to the day when our earth will be celestialized and ALL the animals who have been hunted to extinction and wiped out due to pollution and mans greed will again be on the earth to live peaceably with man.

[Traveler]

A few more thoughts:

As a priesthood holder and home teacher I would not hesitate any more to bless a family pet (or livestock) than I would a family’s house.

When driving I would not risk the lives of the occupants of my vehicle by swerving hard to avoid a collision with an animal

I am aware that in difficult and dangerous situations most animals will revert to instinctive behaviors and I believe it foolish to risk human life under such conditions to save a pet.

I do not believe in being cruel to animals but I will eat meat and swat troublesome insects.

I think it rather interesting that people will love cats and condemn human hunters for being cruel. Cats are among the most skillful and effective hunters on the planet and cats are extremely cruel to their pray (as are most all animals) and yes, cats will kill for fun and even the young of their own kind to breed.

I love and respect animals but I do not expect them to be “human” – I can love and respect them for who and what they really are.

The Traveler

[need4peace]

I do not believe in being cruel to animals but I will eat meat and swat troublesome insects.

I think it rather interesting that people will love cats and condemn human hunters for being cruel. Cats are among the most skillful and effective hunters on the planet and cats are extremely cruel to their pray (as are most all animals) and yes, cats will kill for fun and even the young of their own kind to breed.

I love and respect animals but I do not expect them to be “human” – I can love and respect them for who and what they really are.

The Traveler

I tend to agree with some of your comments eg I eat meat and swat flies too - and I do avoid hurting animals when driving - even snakes (if I can with safety of course). However many people will run over an animal without any concern for its wellbeing.

• “Kindness to the whole animal creation and especially to all domestic animals is not only a virtue that should be developed, but is the absolute duty of mankind." It is an unrighteous thing to treat any creature cruelly. … It will be a blessed day when mankind shall accept and abide by the Christ-like sentiment expressed by one of the poets in the following words: ‘Take not away the life you cannot give, For all things have an equal right to live.’ ” President Joseph F. Smith

Should we unavoidably hurt an animal I believe as their stewards we must take care to tend to the animal

Recently I was travelling to church on a Sunday and noticed as I rounded a bend a poor kangaroo with severely fractured rear legs laying beside the road unable to move but still quite alert.

It was a horrible sight to witness because the roo's rear legs were of no use to him as he took fright and tried to escape with the passing of every vehicle.

I knew I had a responsiblity to do something but was unable to "put him down" by myself and I knew he needed to go to the vet for that. I had a tarp in the car (thankfully I had felt prompted to put it in before I left home) After a heartfelt prayer I was able to slide the roo onto the tarp without too much stress for him. He seemed to understand as I told him I was only wanting to help him. He looked me in the eyes and let me stroke his head it was amazing how he responded to my soothing words. My heart broke for him.

I prayed again after I realised I needed more help to lift him into my car, although he wasn't fully grown he was too heavy for me to lift. I knew Heavenly Father would answer my prayer and before I knew it I had him safely in the rear of the car. I took him into the vet and helped her send him to the Spirit World without anymore suffering. The vet expressed gratitude that I helped the roo because he would have been in fear & agony for maybe a day. I was amazed that with the amount of vehicles that passed by that day no-one stopped to help me. How sad.

• Animals are resurrected from the dead, and there are animals in heaven, redeemed by the blood of Christ (Rev. 5: 11-14; D&C 77: 3, HC 5: 343). BIBLE DICTIONARY Revelation of John

• Animals are ordained for our use, but we will be held accountable for how we treat them. “For it is expedient that I, the Lord, should make every man accountable, as a steward over earthly blessings, which I have made and prepared for my creatures” (D&C 104:13).

• When Heavenly Father created the world, He gave Adam dominion over all the animals. This means that we are supposed to take care of animals, especially when we make them a part of our families. It’s easy to keep your pet healthy and happy. The most important thing to give it is love. All dogs and cats love to be loved. If you give your pet the care it needs, and love it, it will return all your love and more. Jill Johnson Hymas, “Happy and Healthy Dogs and Cats,” Friend, Nov 1992, 48

Truly love is the greatest virtue of all. God’s creatures all long for love and affection. We have seen this manifested in the animal creation—the horse, the dog, the cow, the cat, even wild animals seem to long for and recognize love when it is extended to them. by Elder Joseph Anderson Assistant to the Council of the Twelve “Love,” New Era, Oct 1974, 4 God’s creatures all long for love and affection.

The first known example of blessing a sick animal took place at Indian Creek in Van Buren County, an act occasionally done in pioneer days. Stanley B. Kimball, “The Mormon Pioneer Trail, 1846–47,” Ensign, Sep 1979, 72–76

With regards cats or any animal that become a problem to humans and other animals - I personally believe we need to look beyond the animals behaviour and we will see the influence of humans upon them either in the past or in the present, directly or indirectly.

Humans have caused severe hardship for animals and we become annoyed when an animal becomes agressive, when feral cats, foxes etc in the wild eat the pretty birds or our chicken dinner, when animals or birds raid rubbish bins, when we learn of another extinct animal or when dogs gather in packs and attack our livestock. I don't 'blame' animals at all and I believe as their stewards we need to take responsiblity for our treatment of them over time. It does not mean caring more about them than humans it simply means we need to protect them as God commanded and help them live the measure of their cration

In Moses 3:19 we read of the relationship that Adam had with the animals in the Garden of Eden.“And out of the ground I, the Lord God, formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and commanded that they should come unto Adam, to see what he would call them.”As Adam was given dominion over the animal world, we must realize that, to a large extent, our own choices affect their obedience to the commandment given to multiply, replenish the earth and fulfill the measure of their creation. Kristen Kinjo-Bushman

Joseph Fielding Smith elaborated upon the existential implications of this doctrine. “Latter-day Saints, at least, do not take the view that animals have no reason, and cannot think.We have the divine knowledge that each possesses a spirit in the likeness of its body, and that each was created spiritually before it was naturally, or given a body on the earth.Naturally, then, there is some measure of intelligence in members of the animal kingdom.”

The Spirit of Christ given to every man-was not given to the animal world! The Lord does not require of them repentance from sin, for they do not sin.

Therefore cats aren't sinful.

[Vanhin]

I actually really appreciated your post need4peace. Lots of good quotes and references to make your case.

I think that last quote from Joseph Fielding Smith was interesting.

Regards,

Vanhin

[georgia2]

I appreciate and agree with the last post of Need4 peace.

In Doctrines of Salvation , Joseph Fielding Smith goes on to say that killing an animal for needed food is ordained of GOd, BUT, for those hunters who seemingly have joy over the hunting and killing of animals for fun is wrong. He even goes on to say that the way wild animals treat other animals is do to how man has treated them. That their blood actually changes conditions of the earth. I just don't have the time to write it all out like kind Need4peace has.

Less easy to find are quotes from Joseph F. Smith in the Juvenile Instructor pages 48:309, and 182-2 from 1918.

"I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he "needs" them for food...I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possess life. It is wrong, and I have been surprised at prominent men who I have seen whose very souls seemed to be athirst for the shedding of animal blood. THey go off hunting deer, elk, antelope, anything they can find, and for what? Just for the fun of it! I am a firm believer...in the simple words of one of the poets: 'Take not away the life you cannot give, for all things have an equal right to live' "

"We are a part of life and should study carefully our relationship to it. WE should be in sympathy with it., and not allow our prejudices to create a desire for it's destruction. The unnecessary destruction of life begets a spirit of destruction which grows within the soul. It lives by what it feeds upon and robs man of the love that he should have for the works of God. It hardens the heart of man... The unnecessary destruction of life is a distinct spiritual loss to the human family. Men cannot worship the Creator and look with careless indifference upon His creation. The love of all life helps man to the enjoyment of a better life. Love of nature is akin to the love of God, the two are inseparable."

I further believe that through animals and nature God can actually speak to our souls. When we love and reverence these beauties and blessings around us He can use them to expand our souls and reveal to us many wonderous things. One is that He is with us, He commands nature and that each creature other than man OBEYs HIM ! !

[Traveler]

....

In Doctrines of Salvation , Joseph Fielding Smith goes on to say that killing an animal for needed food is ordained of GOd, BUT, for those hunters who seemingly have joy over the hunting and killing of animals for fun is wrong. He even goes on to say that the way wild animals treat other animals is do to how man has treated them.

........

I do not think I believe what I have underlined.

I believe many animals can be "trained" by man’s influence but that is not the definition of "wild". Believe me - I do respect and love animals - but as much as I love dogs I would not have a dog on my property that growled or snapped at small children or even a owner that allowed their dog to do so. Also I would not take a small child near such an owner – I consider it child abuse.

I was involved in training dogs in my youth – part of training an animal is understanding them. Few people seem to understand dogs are pack animals and require an Alpha male. Many pet dogs misbehave because there is no distinct Alpha. You ought to observe how an Alpha treats others that challenge their authority. Instinctively Alpha male dogs will behave very different than others (and need to be treated differently) and seldom make good house hold pets around children but are very useful for other things. There are no “bad dogs” just uneducated people that do not understand a dog’s instincts.

The Traveler

[georgia2]

In regards to the last statement, I agree.

I THink what He Meant was the actual instictal behavior that we observe today. I'lll see if I can locate the quote.

[need4peace]

I must say thank you to Traveler for your posts because it got me pondering and researching further about animals and what our Prophets & leaders say about them. It is good to learn and re-learn the words of our leaders etc. I found some great quotes that I couldn't resist sharing with you all. The words of our leaders have struck cords with non members too who are interested in protecting animals and the environment.See below

Joseph Fielding Smith said: "the plan of salvation was presented to the spirits, or "intelligences." This being true, then man, animal and plants were not created in the spirit at the time of the creations of the earth, but long before." I believe that the spirits of the plants and animals rejoiced along with the spirits of men at hearing the great plan of our Heavenly Father.

In my mind I see myself rejoicing along with the multitude of animals - I would have been one of those who were surrounded by animals especially the cats. LOL:lol:

Check this link

http://www.et.byu.edu/groups/ce351/Earth%20Papers%203.pdf

The humane society of the United States have on their website a section titled "Religious Statements on Animals" where under the title "Christian Churches" they have The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints listed. Good to see!

"Official Statements on Animals" Joseph Smith's divine revelations listed below assert that animals were provided by God for people's use (including for use as food), but they also explain that animals are only to be used in time of true need and are never to be wasted. Animals, they say, also have souls and will enjoy eternal life.

• "According to present appearances, next year [1868] we may expect grasshoppers to eat up nearly all our crops. But if we have provisions enough to last us another year, we can say to the grasshoppers—these creatures of God—you are welcome. I have never had a feeling to drive them from one plant in my garden; but I look upon them as the armies of the Lord." (Journal of Discourses 12:121)

• "Let the people be holy, and the earth under their feet will be holy. Let the people be holy, and filled with the spirit of God, and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace ... The more purity that exists, the less is the strife; the more kind we are to animals, the more will peace increase, and the savage nature of the brute creation will vanish away." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 203)

• President David O. McKay on kindness to animals:
• "A true Latter-day Saint is kind to animals, is kind to every created thing, for God created all." (October 1951; quoted in Gerald E. Jones, "The Gospel and Animals," p. 65)

http://www.humanesociety.org/about/departments/faith/facts/statements/church_of_jesus_christ_of.html

Elder Marlin K. Jensen on living with animals and animals in heaven:

"Given affection and care, they return affection and care generously and consistently. People whose lives include relationships with animals are usually happier. For me at least, heaven will not be heaven unless the animal kingdom is part of God's kingdom." (Living After the Manner of Happiness, The Ensign, December 2002)

http://www.et.byu.edu/groups/ce351/Earth%20Papers%203.pdf

STUDY GUIDE: LDS PERSPECTIVES ON ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP

Animals will be resurrected. Joseph Fielding Smith: ―The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be recreated, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls. Animals do have spirits and that through the redemption made by our Savior they will come forth in the resurrection to enjoy the blessing of immortal life. When we reach the next world we will find there, our friends the animals. . . . Man would not be contented to live in a world where no animals, plants or vegetation were found. They too live and pass through mortality according to the plan of the Great Designer, and not one mote shall be lost.

Christ’s atonement automatically saves all nature, but not humankind. Brigham Young: ―Always keep in view that the animal, vegetable, and mineral kingdoms – the earth and its fullness – will all, except the children of man, abide their creation – the law by

which they were made, and will receive their exaltation.‖61 1909 First Presidency Message: ―The whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its ‗distinct order or sphere,‘ and will enjoy eternal felicity.‘ That fact has been made plain in this dispensation.

The more kind we are to our animals, the more peace will increase Brigham Young

According to George Q. Cannon (1827-1901): "These birds and animals and fish cannot speak, but they can suffer, and our God who created them knows their sufferings, and will hold him who causes them to suffer unnecessarily to answer for it. It is a sin against their Creator. "Children who are trained to respect the rights of the lower animals," taught Cannon, "will be more inclined to respect human rights and become good citizens. It has been observed that in places where special attention has been given in the public schools to the subject of kindness to animals, the percentage of crime has been lessened."

Kindness to animals and to all living things is one good way of expressing true religion. -Joseph F. Smith

http://www.jrcls.org/publications/perspectives/Lesson%20on%20EnvironmentalStewardship%20by%20Craig%20Galli%20November%202009.pdf

[need4peace]

I couldn't resist this

[havejoy]

Some of those quotes got me thinking about bugs. If there are animals there will probably be bugs. (((((shudder)))))

[georgia2]

Thanks Need4peace! Some of those were the quotes that I read but couldn't locate them! There is one more that is really detailed but I haven't been able to find it yet. The index is not any good in Doctrines of Salvation. There have been specific quotes I KNOW I read but can't locate when trying to find them.

thanks!

[need4peace]

Some of those quotes got me thinking about bugs. If there are animals there will probably be bugs. (((((shudder)))))

Cool hey?

Edited January 21, 2010 by need4peace

[georgia2]

the perfect example for all the quotes from General Authorities is a show on BYUTV called "Yellowstone, America's Eden". I'm watchig it now. they usually show multiple times or possibly see on line at BYUTV. If, that is You can stomach it! ANd this is only documenting a tiny portion of our earth and stewardship.

[Blackmarch]

Is it sacrilegious to put an animals name in the Temple?

as long as you're very serious about it I don't think so - we are told to pray over practically everything, and some people develop a strong bond with an animal companion that they love.

Just my opinion tho, I don't know for sure.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Blackmarch