Does sin exist in the Kingdoms of Glory?

[Bini]

Once you are resurrected, face your final judgment and are sent to one of the Kingdoms of Glory (Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial), can you choose wickedness thereafter? Could a man covet the wife of another man? Could you choose to gossip and spread false rumours of a neighbour? And if one chose sin, would he be cast out of his kingdom? Or does sin simply not exist in the Kingdoms of Glory? Once the Plan of Salvation is complete—is that it? Are all desires that are not of righteousness seized?

Just curious. Maybe this is an unknown.

[Misshalfway]

I don't know exactly how it will all look. But there won't be the state of constant temptation we are under today. I also wonder about Hell and what effect it will have. If fire cleanses, perhaps it is designed to purge the soul who wouldn't be purged thru repentance.

[rameumptom]

Prior to resurrection, we will all have to spend time in spirit prison paying for any and all unrepented sins. D&C 19 describes it as painful as what Christ suffered. Alma described his 3 days in hell as exquisite pain (Alma 36). Such an experience is given, not as a punishment, but to help the person fully repent. Once Alma fully repented, he was released from the pain. This concept is also taught in D&C 19. Those who refuse to repent become sons of Perdition.

After such an experience, I do not believe anyone would want to again face such a trial. To sin again would mean one would have to reject Christ' atonement, and be subject to Outer Darkness, as all would be sinning in perfect knowledge of who God is and what is expected. D&C 88 tells us that a person who does not abide the laws of a kingdom, cannot dwell there.

So, I suppose a being could attempt to sin. But that person would be committing a sin against the knowledge of God, and would then possibly merit Outer Darkness (depending on the sin). I think very few will do that after the suffering, repentance and atoning rescue they will have experienced.

[GaySaint]

It would seem to me that our agency, a gift that started the war in heaven, is so worth protecting that I think it would be wrong to assume that it would simply disappear in the next life. D&C describes the different kingdoms, and throughout scripture we are taught about how different laws can be applied to a group of people who are unable to live a higher law (IE, the Law of Moses). I think each kingdom will be governed by different laws. Those unable to abide the Celestial Law will be assigned to a lower kingdom where the laws will allow them to be most comfortable.

I don’t know whether or not we will choose to sin in the next life (as Ram pointed out), but I do think there will probably be some things one could do that would not violate a telestial law that someone in the celestial kingdom living a higher law would not be able to do, and greater gifts given to those who abide the celestial law, rendering them the ability to do things people in the lower kingdoms won’t be able to do (IE, have sprit children).

We’ve already been told that this world is currently a telestial world, and there is a lot that goes on here that isn’t necessarily sin, but that wouldn’t be accepted, say, in the temple.

Just my thoughts.

[bytor2112]

Prior to resurrection, we will all have to spend time in spirit prison paying for any and all unrepented sins. D&C 19 describes it as painful as what Christ suffered. Alma described his 3 days in hell as exquisite pain (Alma 36). Such an experience is given, not as a punishment, but to help the person fully repent. Once Alma fully repented, he was released from the pain. This concept is also taught in D&C 19. Those who refuse to repent become sons of Perdition.

Everyone? Or those who didn't repent in this life?

[bytebear]

Can we sin? Yes, free agency still exists, even with God. But our nature will be such that we will not sin. At least, that's my understanding

[gabelpa]

I concur with bytebear, however with the additional caveat that so long as we are progressing and learning, we will make mistakes. We will probably do things not in accordance with laws which we don't yet know.

[Blackmarch]

Once you are resurrected, face your final judgment and are sent to one of the Kingdoms of Glory (Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial), can you choose wickedness thereafter? Could a man covet the wife of another man? Could you choose to gossip and spread false rumours of a neighbour? And if one chose sin, would he be cast out of his kingdom? Or does sin simply not exist in the Kingdoms of Glory? Once the Plan of Salvation is complete—is that it? Are all desires that are not of righteousness seized?

Just curious. Maybe this is an unknown.

WE never lose our freedom to make a choice, however we will have lots of time to perfect ourselves before entering the kingdom of heaven... and also we won't have the devil striving against us continually.

[rameumptom]

Everyone? Or those who didn't repent in this life?

IF a person succeeds in fully repenting in this life, they could definitely slip past this. However, D&C 132 suggests that those who receive the fullness of the temple blessings, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, if that person has sinned (with the exception of murder or being a Son of Perdition), that individual will be "buffeted for a season by Satan" and then will receive his/her glory.

As with Alma in Alma chapter 36, one suffers in hell until he/she fully repents of all sins.

[Ragnar]

Everyone? Or those who didn't repent in this life?

If you're worthy to go through the temple on the day you die, or the day the second coming comes, you won't set foot in spirit prison. (The Saviors atonement covers anything you missed.) And those that never had the opportunity to accept the gospel and would of also accepted it, also won't set foot in spirit prison. Now, if you're not worthy, and you're a member of the church, or you aren't and had the opportunity to hear the gospel, or wouldn't accept it had you herd it, you got some very painful weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth to do!

And in the scriptures it says God can't sin! That's the scripture answer for the Celestial Kingdom and sin.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Ragnar

[rameumptom]

Ragnar, this is not what the scriptures teach. D&C 132 clearly states that the individuals sealed in the temple, who have the marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, who then sin afterward in anything except murder, will be buffeted at the last day by Satan for a season, and then will be exalted afterward.

So, even those going to exaltation could potentially spend time in spirit prison/hell to be purified/cleansed.

[billy2]

The Bible describes heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in heaven, but in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in heaven.

What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that mean we will no longer have a free will in heaven? Perhaps in heaven, our ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similarly, the elect in heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

NOTE: Marriage at the Resurrection

23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’a? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.

[Guest]

We will not even have the choice to sin.

I don't think this is true. I don't think our agency will be removed from us... ever.

At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

That's more like it.

[billy2]

I don't think this is true. I don't think our agency will be removed from us... ever.

That's more like it.

Perhaps you are correct...

[rameumptom]

D&C 88 tells us that the person who won't abide the law of a kingdom, cannot dwell in that kingdom.

So, if a person in a heaven chose to sin, they would instantly be removed, as they would no longer be able to abide that kingdom. The higher the kingdom, the higher the law by which a person lives.

[Ragnar]

So, even those going to exaltation could potentially spend time in spirit prison/hell to be purified/cleansed.

So, then what was the reason Jesus atoned for our sins, and what's the point in repenting if we'll still spend time in hell any way for our own sins!!!

[rameumptom]

It is precisely because of Jesus' atonement that there is a spirit prison/hell. It is a place created by our own guilt to drive us toward repentance. Full repentance. The problem is, most of us repent, but not fully of everything. We hedge our sorrow and repentance. That will include the Celestial, who still have a few rough spots that need grinding down.

But once a person is fully willing and able to give up all sins to Christ, THEN that person is redeemed from the Fall and able to return to Christ's presence. Alma's conversion shows this exact concept. It wasn't until he fully repented that his pains were removed, and replaced with extreme joy.