What do people think of LDS members selling alcohol as a bartender/bar owner?

[RachelleDrew]

I sell coffee at my job, nobody in the local leadership seems to have a problem with it. So until one of them approaches me and tells me it's an issue then I don't have a problem with it.

I don't see how serving alcohol is any different.

[Wingnut]

I'm the one that said shame on Pam, not Funky. :)

[pam]

And I corrected it before you posted. :) Or thought I did. I can't keep up this morning. hahahaha

[MichaelCraig]

Would someone please tell me what reference to look for that has the info about tanning dyes and alcohol. Is it a covenant members make when they join? Is it in a doctrine? I would need a lot more facts reguarding these issues before I can put my twenty-five cents in. (inflation you know)

[nbblood]

This is an interesting discussion on the points of view surrounding the issue. I'll just throw out, with regards to the original question asked, "what do people think.....", well, I think it is not for me to judge. I personally would remove myself from this scenario, but that's my choice. At the same time, I certainly would not condemn anybody that does. This is simply not my place. I wouldn't think any less of somebody who did or any more of somebody who didn't. Of course I could make that blanket statement about a whole lot of things.

[Guest Godless]

I think it's important to remember that in today's economy, a job is a job, and bartenders are usually in fairly high demand. And as others have mentioned, there are a plethora of jobs that can fall under similar scrutiny. Food servers at restaurants are often expected to have basic wine knowledge and promote alcohol specials because alcohol sales create better profits than food sales do. And yet I think we can all agree that this is a reasonable profession for someone with bills to pay. Again, I personally wouldn't be comfortable having a non-drinker try to sell me alcohol (especially if I'm relying on this person for a wine recommendation), but I see no moral conflict in it.

[bytor2112]

"Here is your Crown Royal and thanks for coming in"..."oh, by the way, I put a pamphlet in your bag about how families can be together forever and a discount coupon for Whiskey Willi's bloody mary mix for you!...Thanks and come again!"

[Guest Godless]

I used to know an LDS girl who worked as a server at Olive Garden. Whenever someone from the ward would eat there she would say "Wine X pairs very well with this dish, but I'll be very disappointed if you order it."

[hordak]

I think it's important to remember that in today's economy, a job is a job, and bartenders are usually in fairly high demand. And as others have mentioned, there are a plethora of jobs that can fall under similar scrutiny. Food servers at restaurants are often expected to have basic wine knowledge and promote alcohol specials because alcohol sales create better profits than food sales do. And yet I think we can all agree that this is a reasonable profession for someone with bills to pay. Again, I personally wouldn't be comfortable having a non-drinker try to sell me alcohol (especially if I'm relying on this person for a wine recommendation), but I see no moral conflict in it.

Your forgetting 2 things, converts.

And your personal taste in alcohol is bad. I heard you "dis" the silver bullet when in fact it was the best American beer (commercial) available when i drank .

You can't trust someone else pallet. Even when i was a drinker i would have recommended a vintage 2006, Boone's Strawberry hill;)

[Guest]

My bishop just sent me a note on my inquiry about church basketball...

"All Priesthood holders must put Family, Church, and Job in that particular order of importance in their lives. Note that church basketball didn't even make it up to the top 10."

So, in my opinion, if you can change jobs without hurting your Family, then you should - in deference to Church having more importance than your job.

But, it's your own personal choice.

[coral]

I think its ones choice to drink or not, but personally i would not encourage someone by serving them alcohol

[Wingnut]

I used to know an LDS girl who worked as a server at Olive Garden. Whenever someone from the ward would eat there she would say "Wine X pairs very well with this dish, but I'll be very disappointed if you order it."

That's very bad for business, not to mention incredibly tacky. I sure hope for her sake that her boss didn't know that she was saying that to customers. I would think the customers would feel quite uncomfortable with such a statement.

I think its ones choice to drink or not, but personally i would not encourage someone by serving them alcohol

A bartender does not encourage his/her patrons to drink. The person purchasing and consuming the alcohol sought it out. No one is having it forced or otherwise pushed on them.

[MarginOfError]

I used to know an LDS girl who worked as a server at Olive Garden. Whenever someone from the ward would eat there she would say "Wine X pairs very well with this dish, but I'll be very disappointed if you order it."

That's very bad for business, not to mention incredibly tacky. I sure hope for her sake that her boss didn't know that she was saying that to customers. I would think the customers would feel quite uncomfortable with such a statement.

A bartender does not encourage his/her patrons to drink. The person purchasing and consuming the alcohol sought it out. No one is having it forced or otherwise pushed on them.

I think you may have missed the bolded section.

[MarginOfError]

While I don't think a bartender is an ideal job, I don't like to get into discussions of whether or not it is appropriate for members to have such jobs. The conversation too easily devolves into a pharisaical argument over what is and isn't appropriate. For instance, if it's wrong to be the bartender, is it also wrong to own the bar? Is it wrong to be the manager of a beverage distribution company that handles fruit juices and alcohol? Should an lds landlord refuse to rent to cohabitating couples? What if one of his tenants uses his place for an affair? Is the landlord then guilty of having provided the location for the affair? This is just the top of the rabbit hole, and it's a journey I don't wish to take.

I'm happy to leave it to individuals to decide. It isn't given to me to judge their circumstances unless I'm called to be the person's priesthood leader. And then, I would deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

[Guest Godless]

You can't trust someone else pallet. Even when i was a drinker i would have recommended a vintage 2006, Boone's Strawberry hill;)

True enough. However, you sometimes have to. If you were to put a Riesling and a Pinot Blanc in front of me, I probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart, which is why I have to put my trust in servers and bartenders when ordering wine with a nice Italian dish since I have yet to find an Italian restaurant that serves beers like La Fin Du Monde or Chimay Grande Réserve. And you're right, a convert may be able to make a good recommendation, but I think most LDS servers would not.

[pam]

That's very bad for business, not to mention incredibly tacky. I sure hope for her sake that her boss didn't know that she was saying that to customers. I would think the customers would feel quite uncomfortable with such a statement.

A bartender does not encourage his/her patrons to drink. The person purchasing and consuming the alcohol sought it out. No one is having it forced or otherwise pushed on them.

Unless it's someone they know well and is saying it tongue in cheek. I would probably say it to someone I know really well.

[ADoyle90815]

In states that don't have blue laws, people who work in grocery stores often end up selling alcohol to customers when they're cashiers. Anyone who sells alcohol in any form is required by law to check ID's if someone looks under the age of 30, in order to make sure the person is 21 and over. If someone is caught selling alcohol to someone under 21, they not only face criminal charges, they're fired on the spot.

[hordak]

I think you may have missed the bolded section.

I caught it and agree with wingnut, it's still tacky,

[MarginOfError]

I caught it and agree with wingnut, it's still tacky,

Tacky, perhaps, but probably not bad for business, and most likely not a terminable offense.

[Wingnut]

Even as a Word of Wisdom-obeying LDS member, I'd feel awkward and a little uncomfortable if my also-LDS-and-in-my-ward server said that to me.

[pam]

In states that don't have blue laws, people who work in grocery stores often end up selling alcohol to customers when they're cashiers. Anyone who sells alcohol in any form is required by law to check ID's if someone looks under the age of 30, in order to make sure the person is 21 and over. If someone is caught selling alcohol to someone under 21, they not only face criminal charges, they're fired on the spot.

That's not always true that people are fired on the spot. A company that I previously worked for had a policy that they gave you the first one..if caught doing it again within a 12 month period then you were automatically terminated. It's the policy of the business, not a law.

[Guest Godless]

Even as a Word of Wisdom-obeying LDS member, I'd feel awkward and a little uncomfortable if my also-LDS-and-in-my-ward server said that to me.

Put yourself in her shoes. She's required by her employer to try to sell you a glass of wine even though she knows (or at least assumes) that you don't drink.

[pam]

Sometimes you have to ask questions whether you like doing it or not. There are many businesses that participate in mystery shopper programs. Sometimes there are required questions the shopper is looking for that the employee should have asked. If one of the questions is asking about wine..you better ask it. Whether you know the person or not..you don't know who the mystery shopper is.

One place I applied came right out on the application asking if I had a problem with asking every single customer if they wanted to apply for a charge card. Personally, I hate it with a passion to be pushing credit. But at least they were open about it on the application. Same with other places. I know of another place that specifically asked potential employees if they had a problem with serving alcohol.

[hordak]

Even as a Word of Wisdom-obeying LDS member, I'd feel awkward and a little uncomfortable if my also-LDS-and-in-my-ward server said that to me.

Shopping at the mall.

"Why that's a beautiful dress sister Jones, but it's a bit short so i would be disappointed if you get it"

Edited February 2, 2010 by hordak

[Wingnut]

Put yourself in her shoes. She's required by her employer to try to sell you a glass of wine even though she knows (or at least assumes) that you don't drink.

I don't have a problem with the recitation of the wine menu. Adding one's own religious commentary on the end is what I have a problem with, even when speaking to someone of the same faith.