Apostasy

[Maureen]

...We could all come up with verses to support our views, but the real question may be who can make the most convincing movie to depict their perspective? :-)

Since there's no laugh button - :lol:

M.

[Maureen]

...if you are on the non Mormon side, he is evil.

I disagree with this statement. I am non Mormon and do not consider JS evil. He had good and bad qualities like the rest of us. There are non Mormons that do not even know who JS is.

M.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Maureen

[Blackmarch]

Why do Mormons believe there was an Apostasy?

The apostles were killed and not replaced by more apostles.

[marts1]

The apostles were killed and not replaced by more apostles.

Can't be true. It's just too simple.:) Reminds how the gospel is meant to be plain and simple.

[Jason_J]

Just here to clear up some errors on the Catholic position (although I am investigating the LDS church, I still and always will like to see the Catholic faith accurately portrayed) :) :

Eventually, some government leader grabbed the reigns, when Emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire declared himself the head of Christ's church. Catholics point to him as their first Pope.

Catholics most certainly do not point to Constantine as the first Pope. Catholics believe that Peter was the first Pope. Even if we ignore Peter, Catholics believe that Linus was the Pope after Peter. Whether or not any of this is true, Catholics most certainly do not believe that Constantine was the first Pope, let alone Pope at any time (and no list of Popes lists Constantine, since again, he never was a Pope). By the time Constantine was born, there were already 26 Popes.

Does one believe the Pope (not a position in the Bible) is the Vicar of Christ, or the Eastern Orthodox's Patriarch (which IS a calling in the Bible)?

Do you think that Roman Catholic Popes were inspired to begin indulgences, which modern Popes condemn?

Catholics agree that "Pope" is not a position in the Bible. The office that "the Pope" holds is Bishop, specifically of Rome. One is not ordained a Pope. Catholics believe in only three offices in the priesthood: deacon, priest, and bishop. There are then different roles in each priesthood office (such as cardinal, patriarch, archbishop, etc). The "Bishop of Rome" is seen as the head of the church, and is called "Pope", which is a term of endearment, and is not an official title of the Bishop of Rome (though it is the most widely used of course). So, a man is not chosen to be "Pope", but the Bishop of Rome, which affords him certain rights and privileges, and "Pope" is an informal title given to him. He is first and foremost a bishop, specifically of Rome.

Modern Popes most certainly do not condemn indulgences. Indulgences are very much a part of the Catholic faith. For example, if I open my copy of the Catholic New American Bible, just before the preface, it states this:

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful who use Sacred Scripture for spiritual reading with the veneration due the word of God. A plenary indulgence is granted if the reading continues for at least one half hour.

What modern Popes condemn was the abuse of indulgences, what is called the "sale of indulgences". Indulgences as a principle are still part of the Catholic faith, are found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (an official document of official beliefs of the Catholic church), and I believe the Catholic church recently published a new manual of indulgences.

[Wingnut]

Eventually, some government leader grabbed the reigns, when Emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire declared himself the head of Christ's church. Catholics point to him as their first Pope.

Catholics most certainly do not point to Constantine as the first Pope. Catholics believe that Peter was the first Pope. Even if we ignore Peter, Catholics believe that Linus was the Pope after Peter. Whether or not any of this is true, Catholics most certainly do not believe that Constantine was the first Pope, let alone Pope at any time (and no list of Popes lists Constantine, since again, he never was a Pope). By the time Constantine was born, there were already 26 Popes.

I didn't catch that comment of LM's on the first pass, otherwise I probably would have commented on it. I thought it was common knowledge that Peter was the first Pope, as Catholics and Mormons have very different interpretations of the scripture in Matthew 16:18 (Matthew 16).

The "Bishop of Rome" is seen as the head of the church, and is called "Pope", which is a term of endearment, and is not an official title of the Bishop of Rome (though it is the most widely used of course).

This is similar to how the leader of the LDS faith holds the office of Apostle within the Priesthood (but so do 14 others), but is distinguished by also being the President of the Church. In our case, though, he is not commonly referred to as The President, but rather as The Prophet (even though, again, there are 14 others who are also prophets).

[NeuroTypical]

Catholics most certainly do not point to Constantine as the first Pope. Catholics believe that Peter was the first Pope. Even if we ignore Peter, Catholics believe that Linus was the Pope after Peter. Whether or not any of this is true, Catholics most certainly do not believe that Constantine was the first Pope, let alone Pope at any time (and no list of Popes lists Constantine, since again, he never was a Pope). By the time Constantine was born, there were already 26 Popes.

Thank you much, Jason, for the appropriate and needed correction. I fell into the same dumb trap I see critics of my church falling into - hearing something that sounds bad, and believing it.

Please accept my apologies, and I promise I've corrected my position. Now I just gotta find all the people I told that story to...

LM

[Jason_J]

Thank you much, Jason, for the appropriate and needed correction. I fell into the same dumb trap I see critics of my church falling into - hearing something that sounds bad, and believing it.

Please accept my apologies, and I promise I've corrected my position. Now I just gotta find all the people I told that story to...

LM

No problem! We're all here to learn and hope I would be corrected if I misspoke about something about the LDS faith. The critics of both the Catholic and LDS faiths confuse many people (I see Catholics believing their stories about Mormonism all the time at another forum I participate in).

[Dymmesdale]

The papacy really began to run into trouble, though, after Vatican I, from which the Roman Catholic doctrine of Papal infallibility, and the Pope's privilege to speak ex Cathedra, came. Putting any human up on that kind of pedestal, I believe, is asking for trouble.