Bad news for Education

[rameumptom]

According to the newest numbers from NAEP, test scores have not risen in two decades. No Child Left Behind is leaving children behind at basically the same rate as they were before the program was enacted.

Obviously, federally run programs just aren't working. Let's use vouchers and charter schools to get some real competition into the system. And let's get rid of the Teachers' Unions that stop competition and real change from happening in our schools.

Bad News for the Education Standards Crowd | Cato @ Liberty

[Connie]

Amen and Amen!

[Guest Godless]

NCLB was a joke from the get-go and many people on both sides of the political spectrum knew it.

I can definitely understand the argument for government vouchers, but that would mean a massive overhaul of our education system (which I'm not necassarily opposed to). The biggest problem is that it doesn't make sense to give people money to send their kids to private schools while there's a public system in place. So long as the government is funding public education for our children, it needs to be focusing its money and resources on that. The alternative is to do away with public education completely, which would mean giving vouchers to every low income family and facilitating the growth of private schools that would be required in the absence of public schools. This would be a logistical nightmare and would involve far more government involvement than most people would care to accept. I think it would be best to keep our focus on government-run public education and work on creating better programs than NCLB.

[Guest]

NCLB was one of the Bush things that I didn't much care for. Another one is the Medicare Part D - for disaster.

In Florida, there is a Voluntary Pre-K program where people can take their children to any Pre-K school that is accredited by the State of Florida as a VPK certified school and the government will subsidize the tuition. For most private schools it comes out free. I took my kid to a Montessori which was more expensive and I ended up paying $200/month out of pocket, which, of course, is much better than the $120/week daycare center that doesn't teach them much of anything. The schools receive the reimbursement from the State government, not the families.

This is a program I actually like. The public school system should be overhauled into something like the VPK program in Florida where people have the option of going to the public school of choice or to a State accredited private school. This will make public school systems competitive which should improve service. More importantly, it will remove the zoning restrictions to provide children with the freedom to choose their schools.

This actually will remove the power from the government to dictate what your child can learn. Your education will only be limited by your own choices.

Unfortunately, this will also remove power from the Teacher's Union. Something that the government is not ready to lose.

[JudoMinja]

I really think the public schools should be treated in much the same way as college- where children are required to have classes covering specific core curricula, but after that the direction they go is up to them. Children will feel more excited about learning if they get to choose what to learn!

Back when we didn't have schools, children became apprentices under a craft they thought they would like to do/had another family member doing/would be useful. While I find it is very important to be well-educated, so much of what is taught in our education system now is just a waste of time. I remember having many classes where I didn't even learn anything, I just did the work and found something else to do to entertain my time or did homework from my other classes in which I was actually learning something.

Testing, especially the standardized testing that was stressed with the NCLB act, just doesn't cover enough to really see if children are learning. There are areas of knowledge you just can't test with multiple choice questions and essays. Have all the children develop a portfolio! That would give us a better idea of what they are learning in school. But its not easy to calculate statistically, so they won't do it. The only reason they wanted testing was so they could have a statistical figure, but people aren't statistics! Our knowledge does not fit into a nice little categorized box. It is fluent, ever changing, every expanding, and unique.

Our education system is failing because it is being treated in the same way as the food/consumer industry. Produce massive amounts of the same- quantity over quality. Educate our people so they can contribute to the capitalist/consumer network, not so they can be a well-learned, well-rounded, active, knowledge-seeking individual. Not so that we can have opinionated, creative, inventive, leaders. I can't help but feel that the current system treats children like cattle, bred for consumption.

[rameumptom]

Vouchers that can go to either public or private schools do several things. First, They eliminate bad schools that don't improve. It eliminates the huge influence on the Teachers' Unions, which impede the improvement of school programs. It eliminates bad teachers from the system.

And it is cheaper. A recent Stanford study shows that the charter schools in Harlem greatly outperform the regular public schools in the entire state of New York. While regular public schools cost more than $10K per child to run, the charter schools cost about $6-7K per kid. Yet the Teachers' Unions and liberals are trying to get rid of the charter schools.

A voucher system, OTOH, would give public systems a reason to move to more charter schools, in order to compete with private schools.

Also, the concept that all American children are college capable is a crazy idea. 1/2 of them are below the national average. As JudoMinja noted, let those who do not want college degrees to start early to learn trades. Let them graduate as a journeyman carpenter, plumber, etc.

Edited March 24, 2010 by rameumptom

[ADoyle90815]

One issue with NCLB is that it punishes those schools and teachers who have children who are learning English as a second language and those with disabilities that affect their ability to learn with their typical peers. Fewer teachers are going to be willing to work in inner city schools that have the most children who are learning English as a second language. When I mention children who are learning English as a second language, I'm generally referring to children who were born in this country to immigrants who came here the legal way. It could also affect special education as there might be fewer teachers going into that field, and there could be fewer special needs children that are allowed to be integrated into regular classrooms.

[rameumptom]

This morning on MSNBC's Morning Joe, they were discussing fixing the school system. Talking with Jeb Bush, he explained that such a testing system as NCLB has does not work. The scoring has to be correlated to an student's personal progression, not compared with everyone else.

[FunkyTown]

And let's get rid of the Teachers' Unions that stop competition and real change from happening in our schools.

Bad News for the Education Standards Crowd | Cato @ Liberty

Are you, the advocate for governmental non-interventionism, seriously advocating a union bust? o.O You want to destroy a group of people who have banded together to make their voices heard?

That's... Hunh. That's... Hunh. I've got nothing.

[rameumptom]

Well, I would eliminate the Dept of Education, and return things to states. I would give states the power to eliminate monopolies, which include the power of the Teachers' Unions. We have laws against monopolies.

They have worked well in the past to create competition and growth. Standard Oil was broken up, and now most oil companies are bigger than Standard Oil was. AT&T was broken up, and now we have several huge companies competing with it, AND we have better technology due to competition. If we break up the Union, then they would not just be a voice for liberal concepts, but teachers could join unions that represent their actual viewpoints.

Of course, if we could get a voucher system, then the unions would lose power automatically.

[Moksha]

Rameumpton, your ideas sound intriguing. For what it is worth, I thought I could offer up with some similar ideas for those students of lesser means who may not be able to afford what is left of the dismantled educational system even with vouchers:

1. Apprentice them to trade guilds so that they might provide useful service.

2. Indenture them to families who were more valiant in the pre-existence.

Just trying to help...

[Just_A_Guy]

Geez, Moksha, why don't you just call him a Nazi and have done with it?

[Bluejay]

Geez, Moksha, why don't you just call him a Nazi and have done with it?

Godwin is vindicated yet again!