Alternative lifestyles and PTSD

[rameumptom]

Here's a Harvard study that shows lesbians and gays have suffered twice as much from violence and PTSD than the general population. This supports my view that much of the SSA is based upon emotional confusion caused by bad experiences in youth.

Gay men and lesbians more likely to experience violent events and subsequent PTSD

[Elphaba]

Here's a Harvard study that shows lesbians and gays have suffered twice as much from violence and PTSD than the general population. This supports my view that much of the SSA is based upon emotional confusion caused by bad experiences in youth.

That is not the study's conclusions at all. The study says that people are violent with children because they are gay, or, as they call it, "sexual minority orientation." Thus, because they are treated so violently, they develop PTSD, which is, to me, stating the obvious.

From the article:

The researchers suggest five mechanisms for the increased risk of victimization and PTSD among sexual minorities:

• Hate crimes--almost one-third of sexual minority adults in the U.S. report being victims of a hate crime
• Gender non-conforming behavior in childhood, which increases risk of being bullied and victimized
• Social isolation and discrimination due to sexual minority orientation
• Elevated risk-taking behavior stemming from social isolation and perceived stigma
• Limited access to mental health care

Each of these, except the last, indicates the child was treated violently because of their sexual minority orientation, not that they developed sexual minority orientation because they were treated violently.

I grew up with a boy who was clearly gay, though I didn't know what that meant at the time. What I did know is that he acted like a girl, and he was mercilessly beat up by his peers during his entire tenure in school. Additionally, his father was vicious with him, insisting he was going to "beat the sissy out of him." Of course he had PTSD, and, tragically, he committed suicide at 21.

Another example is 15-year-old Larry King who was murdered by one of his classmates because Larry had asked him to be his Valentine. Being gay is so despised in our society, the boy could not stand the thought that a "fag" was attracted to him. This is a monumental tragedy for both boys.

As a researcher of the study said:

Something about our society puts individuals with minority sexual orientations at high risk for victimization.

Again, the study's conclusions do not support your views. They say exactly the opposite.

Elphaba

Edited April 18, 2010 by Elphaba

[Moksha]

Isn't it interesting how different the interpretation of the same findings can be?

[ADoyle90815]

I know that people are born gay, and that if they have PTSD, it's because they suffer from abuse while growing up as it's seen as something to be ashamed of. That's especially true for those who were unfortunate to be born to families where being gay is evil.

[Elgama]

They suffer abuse and PTSD Because they are Gay or Lesbian - being a gay or lesbian teen in our societies even without violence is traumatic in its own right, added to that people who decide to beat it out of them or who are disgusted by them.

My best friend is gay, because of his size has never suffered any violence or seriously picked on, and his parents whilst he is not desperatly open with him are nice decent people. He's been gay all his life,,

[WindRiver]

Despite what the "world" thinks on this we cannot truly be at peace or happy when we are doing things that are in conflict with eternal truth.

I am not saying that those who are breaking the law of chastity be it adultery, fornication, pornography addiction or living in a same gender relationship ( which is just another type of fornication basically), can't be happy in their lives, but they most certainly cannot enjoy the fullness of joy that comes from obeying the laws of God.

Another problem is that when they are embracing incorrect principles and acting on them the Holy Ghost cannot strive with them, so they are too often without the inspiration that we all need so much to guide them in their lives.

While I am sure that many gays / lesbians suffer from the verbal or physical abuse of others, without question their own actions also contribute a huge amount to their PTSD type feelings / thoughts / symptoms, as they would for any of us when we are breaking eternal laws.

[Elgama]

While I am sure that many gays / lesbians suffer from the verbal or physical abuse of others, without question their own actions also contribute a huge amount to their PTSD type feelings / thoughts / symptoms, as they would for any of us when we are breaking eternal laws.

What about those who are gay or lesbian and are not breaking the law of chastity? not sure what someone who is gay or lesbian but who does not have sex outside of marriage is doing to warrant the lack of the Holy Ghost? I know of a couple who remained chaste throughout their teens, they were still bullied because they were different and still had to deal with the trauma. Tell me what eternal law are they breaking? Being attracted to members of the same sex or revolted by the idea of sex with a member of the opposite sex does not automatically make someone immoral, they are just as capable of controlling their desires which if anything makes them more conflicted than a person who can accept who they are

Edited April 18, 2010 by Elgama

[WindRiver]

What about those who are gay or lesbian and are not breaking the law of chastity? not sure what someone who is gay or lesbian but who does not have sex outside of marriage is doing to warrant the lack of the Holy Ghost? I know of a couple who remained chaste throughout their teens, they were still bullied because they were different and still had to deal with the trauma. Tell me what eternal law are they breaking? Being attracted to members of the same sex or revolted by the idea of sex with a member of the opposite sex does not automatically make someone immoral, they are just as capable of controlling their desires which if anything makes them more conflicted than a person who can accept who they are

You are 100% correct. As long as they don't act on those feelings or harbor them there is no sin. With help from God the feelings can be reduced / managed. I know a man who is a bishop but has had same gender attraction all his life and still does. He sees it no differently than someone who is attracted to another persons' spouse. The thoughts might come to mind but you don't dwell on or act on them.

But we cannot dismiss the truth that thoughts become actions. If we give a place for those thoughts constantly in our minds, then yes it is a sin. We need to be always on guard about what we allow to stay on the stage of our mind.

[Moksha]

I know that people are born gay, and that if they have PTSD, it's because they suffer from abuse while growing up as it's seen as something to be ashamed of. That's especially true for those who were unfortunate to be born to families where being gay is evil.

What do you suppose we could do to make life more pleasant for them?

[Elgama]

What do you suppose we could do to make life more pleasant for them?

I think its simple something the past few months has taught me - we start speaking out and saying bullying is wrong no matter who its being done to

[Elphaba]

. . . without question their own actions also contribute a huge amount to their PTSD type feelings / thoughts / symptoms, as they would for any of us when we are breaking eternal laws.

Your comment baffles me.

If the subject of the thread had been a study demonstrating that women experience a high level of violence and abuse in our society, resulting in PTSD, I highly doubt it would have occurred to you to say they also cause their own PTSD by sinning.

So, why would it occur to you to say it when the people in question are gay? I am not being harsh. I really do not understand it.

Elphaba

[Elgama]

You are 100% correct. As long as they don't act on those feelings or harbor them there is no sin. With help from God the feelings can be reduced / managed. I know a man who is a bishop but has had same gender attraction all his life and still does. He sees it no differently than someone who is attracted to another persons' spouse. The thoughts might come to mind but you don't dwell on or act on them.

But we cannot dismiss the truth that thoughts become actions. If we give a place for those thoughts constantly in our minds, then yes it is a sin. We need to be always on guard about what we allow to stay on the stage of our mind.

so I am not getting your point say your Bishop that you cited had suffered PTSD due to childhood bullying because of differences he had no control over - how is it his fault? If the violence was during their teenage years a good number of those people in the survey would not have acted upon their feelings at that point, they may even not be aware they are gay or are aware but trying to push it away

Edited April 18, 2010 by Elgama

[Dravin]

Personally while I'm inclined to agree that those who do not obey God's laws are more likely to be unhappy (Wickedness never was happiness) I'm also inclined to think that the issue here is a little more complex then, "They sin, that's why they are so unhappy." I think it's going to be a combination of wickedness, both on their part (if applicable, as pointed out, being gay is not a sin) and on others (bullying, violence, hatred and the like). What exactly the proportionate levels of influence are are I have no clue.

[Elgama]

What the article seems to be saying is its often children being treated badly. As a result in this case most of the sinning is on the other peoples part. My experience with gay people is limited to just a few people but they seem to be less likely to be sexually active as teenagers because they need to figure themselves out and its more problematic approaching someone.

[rameumptom]

I agree with how Elgama is reading the article. Yes, gay/lesbian children are often harmed. But this article seems to say that many children who are harmed end up being gay/lesbian/etc. The corollary can be seen in either direction, I suppose. However, most children do not realize they are gay/lesbian until at least their teen years. By that time, most have been harmed violently.

[Elphaba]

I agree with how Elgama is reading the article.

Elgama can clarify, but she is not reading the article the same way you are. She believes the children are abused because they are gay/lesbian.

But this article seems to say that many children who are harmed end up being gay/lesbian/etc. The corollary can be seen in either direction, I suppose. However, most children do not realize they are gay/lesbian until at least their teen years. By that time, most have been harmed violently.

I went back and re-read the article to see if I misread it the first time, and I simply don't see how you interpret it to say violence makes children grow up to be gay/lesbian. Could you please quote the specific passages that say this?

Elphaba

[marts1]

I don't read it the way you see it either Ram.

[Elgama]

I agree with how Elgama is reading the article. Yes, gay/lesbian children are often harmed. But this article seems to say that many children who are harmed end up being gay/lesbian/etc. The corollary can be seen in either direction, I suppose. However, most children do not realize they are gay/lesbian until at least their teen years. By that time, most have been harmed violently.

that I don't agree with most gay/lesbian people I know have noticed differences before their teen years typically between 6 and 10, they may not understand what it means then but the conflict starts much earlier. And many people around them pick up on it very early - how many times has a Father in particular been known to say he doesn't want his son having namby pamby ways?

[hordak]

Can you determine a persons sexual attraction before they have a sexual attraction?

I mean i often hear about how "they knew or their parents knew they were gay at the age of 6" but how you determine that when sexual attraction is not known to a 6 year old?

You cannot tell i'm straight based on my love of football (which is the most over rated sport known to man) but based on my sexual attraction to women. At six, women were people with long hair who had babies to me.

The only way you could "determine" sexual attraction for someone without it would be to base it on our society gender stereotypes, which is how and why gay people are mocked and teased so therefor people doing this are actually giving more ammo to the bullies.

Kids on the playgrounds are saying "Your gay, that makes a a little sissy"

Adults "That's not nice, he was born that way"

Kid. "How do you know?"

Adult. "He played with dolls instead of sports"

Kid "you mean he was a sissy"

[Elgama]

Like I said its not the sexual attraction its the knowledge they are different somehow, something about the way society is ordered looks wrong, feels wrong etc I am going by secondhand understanding and books I have read.

[Guest mysticmorini]

I grew up with a boy who was clearly gay, though I didn't know what that meant at the time. What I did know is that he acted like a girl, and he was mercilessly beat up by his peers during his entire tenure in school. Additionally, his father was vicious with him, insisting he was going to "beat the sissy out of him." Of course he had PTSD, and, tragically, he committed suicide at 21.

Elphaba

Why is it that acting effeminate or "like a girl" means that someone is "clearly gay" unless someone is being visually intimate with another person of the same sex how can they be "clearly gay"? I know many men who act effeminate and are clearly not gay. this is an example of how liberal society determines who and what you are by your how they classify your actions and not on who you actually are.

[FunkyTown]

Why is it that acting effeminate or "like a girl" means that someone is "clearly gay" unless someone is being visually intimate with another person of the same sex how can they be "clearly gay"? I know many men who act effeminate and are clearly not gay. this is an example of how liberal society determines who and what you are by your how they classify your actions and not on who you actually are.

I used to have beer bottles thrown at me on the street and various slang words for homosexual tossed at me.

Of course, I looked a lot different then, and my grandpa always taught me to walk with a straight back and good posture. I have a pic up of the time when I used to have that happen. It doesn't happen any more.

I'd warn against judging someone as gay just because they don't look like you as well. I wasn't and I can honestly say that's one sin I was never tempted by.

[Elgama]

I used to have beer bottles thrown at me on the street and various slang words for homosexual tossed at me.

Of course, I looked a lot different then, and my grandpa always taught me to walk with a straight back and good posture. I have a pic up of the time when I used to have that happen. It doesn't happen any more.

I'd warn against judging someone as gay just because they don't look like you as well. I wasn't and I can honestly say that's one sin I was never tempted by.

I'm British I'm hardly likely to say someone is gay because they seem effeminate lol That doesn't mean there aren't indicators that someone is gay from a very early age

[Guest]

Elgama, what's your view on this theory (I just made it up):

* At 6 years old, a boy is not old enough to show that he is gay. Just because he acts effiminate does not mean he is gay. Being teased and bullied for being "gay" (associating being effiminate with gay) in such an early age makes him mentally associate himself with gays so that in his teen years it causes him to cultivate his attraction to the same gender because that's who he thinks he is.

[Guest mysticmorini]

Elgama, what's your view on this theory (I just made it up):

* At 6 years old, a boy is not old enough to show that he is gay. Just because he acts effiminate does not mean he is gay. Being teased and bullied for being "gay" (associating being effiminate with gay) in such an early age makes him mentally associate himself with gays so that in his teen years it causes him to cultivate his attraction to the same gender because that's who he thinks he is.

I'm not elgama but i fear that this is exactly what happens in some instances.