are you kidding?

[dizzysmiles]

i don't think the scenario i presented is any more the majority than the op of this thread about women thinking all they have to do is keep house and birth babies is true of the majority of women.

I can see if he sees women that have babies and don't really care, or nurture for them is upsetting, but I don't quite understand his question here I guess.

[Elgama]

One need I have in marriage is to be spared of the day to day cleaning so I can provide for the family. So, a clean house is something that generates major love for my wife from me. Particularly when I've worked long hours and want to enjoy time with my family. I don'[t feel I can do it when there is 4 hours of housekeeping to be done just to make the place reasonably sanitary, So, while I don't think all those women's roles are necessary for salvation, they are critical to a happy marriage in our situation. Just like enough financial support from myself is critical to my wife's happiness. She has a really high need for financial support and I meet that need, but it takes time. So, in my view, she should keep the house clean to provide similar love in our relationship. If I refused to go to work, was content with poverty-line wages, etcetera, it would definitely hurt our marriage and not meet her needs. It's a two-way street.

.

I have to say if my husband wrote this he's be out the door, my husband recognises that raising children is my job and its blooming hardwork, we had them together, and whilst I do the main part of the housework I have never ever had him moan when I struggled or blame it for not interacting with the kids, he can always kick a ball around in the garden with them, he picks up a mop and helps out. Having said that I am capable of managing on what my husband earns, personally would rather see him more than have him out earning more than we need, I actually miss him and so do the kids, my sons asked 4 times today when would Dad be home. Sure more would be nice but its not critical to our marriage.

[dazed-and-confused]

so what about the men that think they don't have to do anything but go to work and church? they think they are "babysitting" their kids when the wife is off at enrichment meeting. which is ever so generous of them because... well... that's not their job. they are giving "service" to the wife. they shouldn't have to come home from work and do anything, they have been at work all day (she has it easy she doesn't go to work), the house is the wife's "role". cook dinner only on special occasions as a "gift". it only makes since that she be responsible for the bills and budget since it's her "role" to do all the shopping for the household.

notice i say it's the woman's "role". she doesn't have a job. if it were called a "job" or "work" then it would kill the entire argument that he gets to come home and lazy all night while she takes care of everything, because he actually works.

i'm not saying this is what i think most men believe. just the opening post of this thread i think reflects the minority of women not the majority and it's mildly offensive to the majority. thought i'd throw the guy version out there.

i couldn't agree more,Gwen, thanks.

this is along the lines from which this post was inspired.

imo, it is the presence of mind and spirit/soul that dtermins the difference between "talking the talk" and "walking the walk", or simply going through the motions.

[Elgama]

so what about the men that think they don't have to do anything but go to work and church? they think they are "babysitting" their kids when the wife is off at enrichment meeting. which is ever so generous of them because... well... that's not their job. they are giving "service" to the wife. they shouldn't have to come home from work and do anything, they have been at work all day (she has it easy she doesn't go to work), the house is the wife's "role". cook dinner only on special occasions as a "gift". it only makes since that she be responsible for the bills and budget since it's her "role" to do all the shopping for the household.

notice i say it's the woman's "role". she doesn't have a job. if it were called a "job" or "work" then it would kill the entire argument that he gets to come home and lazy all night while she takes care of everything, because he actually works.

i'm not saying this is what i think most men believe. just the opening post of this thread i think reflects the minority of women not the majority and it's mildly offensive to the majority. thought i'd throw the guy version out there.

Like I tell my husband he works 40 hours a week, he gets 6 weeks holiday a year, and sick days, not to mention by law a lunch hour and a break every 3 hours. Raising small children is a 168 hour a week job, no holidays (well thats not true I just demanded a week off lol), no lunch hour, I get to eat usually punctuated with Mum can I have, I have to be really, really sick to get sick days etc, and when I do let him take over for a weekend or a week, I end up with a gigantic amount of housework because he never truly takes over lol

[Intrigued]

Once the kids in school a womans 'level of responsibility' (at least around the house) drops tremendously. It's much more manageable. There's a great solution though. Don't have so many kids and work a full time job

[Elgama]

Once the kids in school a womans 'level of responsibility' (at least around the house) drops tremendously. It's much more manageable. There's a great solution though. Don't have so many kids and work a full time job

first who says kids have to go to school? And secondly I personally think its more important for a teenaged child to have a Mum at home than a preschooler, just knowing a parent is there can make a huge difference to a child. And if you are putting your effort into being a Mother surely that time can be used better for your children? and increasing your own knowledge and learning etc

[Intrigued]

first who says kids have to go to school? And secondly I personally think its more important for a teenaged child to have a Mum at home than a preschooler, just knowing a parent is there can make a huge difference to a child. And if you are putting your effort into being a Mother surely that time can be used better for your children? and increasing your own knowledge and learning etc

The law says that children have to go to school. Mom can be at home for her teenage child even while working a full time job. My mom did it and it seems pretty common. Dad drops the kids off at school, they both go to work, mom picks the kids up, etc.

[dizzysmiles]

As a woman who worked in a daycare, I would never ever put my kids in that situation IF I can help it. I know there are people out there who have to, aka single mom's. I loved those daycare kids so much, but when they started calling me mommy and crying when their real mom came I saw that no one should ever TRY to take that place of a mother. My husband is a real man, HE works his butt off so I can stay home. HE works three jobs if he has too, and guess what He does it because he loves not only me, but our children. I plan on being a SAHM until my kids leave for college. I didn't have kids so others could raise them. It is a FULL time job, and harder than any 9-5 job you will ever clock in and out of.

[Bini]

My mum was a stay at home mum.

She was also on the PTA and was with us kids at school—a lot!

But that was nice too sometimes :] I can never say my mum wasn't "involved" in my life growing up. She was always there.

[Tarnished]

The law says that children have to go to school. Mom can be at home for her teenage child even while working a full time job. My mom did it and it seems pretty common. Dad drops the kids off at school, they both go to work, mom picks the kids up, etc.

Homeschooling takes care of the school requirement. You don't HAVE to send them to school. It is true that a mother can work and still be there for their teen, however it does cause Mom to have divided attentions. To tell the truth the only time when the kids in my family started to get into trouble was when my mom went back to work. In some circumstances it is needed, but if you don't absolutely have to have a job then I would say stay home and raise your kids. The benefits your kids will receive from having a mother at home will vastly outweigh the benefits you might gain from a job.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I have to say if my husband wrote this he's be out the door, .

Kicking a spouse out the door shows you don't understand the model of love in marriage put forward by Willard Harley Jr at Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice. You're truly blessed that either he has a low need for domestic support, or that you naturally pitch in enough around the house to meet that need; therefore, he's not complaining. Otherwise, you'd have marital issues over this.

Kickign someone out the door because they share the fact a spouse is not meeting their needs in marriage is disrespectful to their own set of emotional needs.

I said elsehwere that service in marriage involves learning what needs your spouse has, and trying to meet them.

My wife once complained I don't talk enough to her. It became a really big issue. I had to learn to drop everything when she wants to talk to me, often, realizing this was a relationship issue. I now book off time to talk to her proactively so she doesn't feel she has to demand this on her own time schedule. In short, I had to change my behavior patterns to meet her needs because I loved her -- not dismiss her request for more need-meeting by kicking her out the door.

[Intrigued]

Homeschooling takes care of the school requirement. You don't HAVE to send them to school. It is true that a mother can work and still be there for their teen, however it does cause Mom to have divided attentions. To tell the truth the only time when the kids in my family started to get into trouble was when my mom went back to work. In some circumstances it is needed, but if you don't absolutely have to have a job then I would say stay home and raise your kids. The benefits your kids will receive from having a mother at home will vastly outweigh the benefits you might gain from a job.

The home school vs public/private school issue is an entirely different topic and debate. I'm not promoting working with pre-school children. But once they get into elementary school or so.. it's probably time to find at least a part time job imo.

Bills are mostly paid online now, grocery shopping isn't usually an issue, and it should only take a few minutes to clean house. What else would a woman be doing while her kid is at school and husband at work?

Working also satisfies social needs too.

[ADoyle90815]

My mom was a middle school teacher, so she would get home right around the time my brother and I did, or shortly after we did, unless there was something like band practice for me after school. My dad worked maybe about 10 minutes away, so he was home in the evenings as well. Both of my parents were involved with the parent booster club for the band, and the PTA. My mom only began teaching when my brother and I were both in school, as she was home before then. One of the reasons why she became a teacher was that she would get home not too long after we were done with school.

My SIL was laid off from her teaching position because of budget cuts, but that suits her just fine as she gets to stay home with my niece. She does work as a tutor in the evenings and Saturdays when my brother is home. He's not "babysitting," he's being a father. I'm sorry, but I hate when people say that the father is "babysitting" when they are doing their job as a parent.

[Guest mirancs8]

Has somebody been reading Fascinating Womanhood? Oh my.

Love that book! Have the book and the work book with it. Read it about 5 years ago.

[Guest mirancs8]

What else would a woman be doing while her kid is at school and husband at work?

Are you kidding me with this statement. There is much a wife/mother can fill her day with even if her kids are older.

Call me old fashioned... maybe it's just the way I was brought up in but I loved those few years I got to be a stay at home mom/wife. I loved it. It was so rewarding. I never once complained about my role and the responsibilities that went with it. To be able to cook a home cooked meal each and every night, do homework after school with the kids, and the kids actually having some free play time before the sun went down. Being able to do the housework while the kids were in school. Volunteering for something that made a difference in someones life. Always having the home cleaned up and being able to keep up with everything. Having the ability to run errands, take the kids to doctor appointments, running the kids to their activities after school, volunteering at their school, and other such thing.

There was nothing more fulfilling to me then to be a stay at home mom/wife. I loved it.

[Elgama]

The law says that children have to go to school. Mom can be at home for her teenage child even while working a full time job. My mom did it and it seems pretty common. Dad drops the kids off at school, they both go to work, mom picks the kids up, etc.

WWhich Law? as far as I am aware most of the world requires an education to be given to your children. Education does not = school, Some countries like Germany

its not the same my Mum was home, knowing if I was in trouble at school she was there was amazing. When I was bullied at school quite badly one day, I was able to step over the wall and walk home, knowing my Mum would be there to do something about the situation, if she had been at work miles away in town I couldn't have done that. Fact is my husband and I work together the children are OUR JOB, and the very best for them is Mum at home until they leave.

[Elgama]

Kicking a spouse out the door shows you don't understand the model of love in marriage put forward by Willard Harley Jr at

I have a contented happy marriage, we are good together make compromises and work together to bring our family up along the lines laid out in church handbooks I don't need to understand anyone elses model as long as my marriage is working with the three most important members of it, God, myself and my husband. It was ment as a joky expression only semi serious, if my husband had spoken the way you did on this board I would never have married him in the first place, it would make me feel like a slave and unloved:) I would find it disrespectful that my husband found housework beneath him and showed lack of appreciation for just how difficult child chasing is.

But then he would be dismayed if I wanted money more than him at home, for me a happy household is about the people in it not the finances, once we have food in our belly, clothes on our body and roof over our head. Its great that it works for you, but personally I cannot understand a marriage where money and housework takes priority over each other and time together,

[Elgama]

The home school vs public/private school issue is an entirely different topic and debate. I'm not promoting working with pre-school children. But once they get into elementary school or so.. it's probably time to find at least a part time job imo.

Bills are mostly paid online now, grocery shopping isn't usually an issue, and it should only take a few minutes to clean house. What else would a woman be doing while her kid is at school and husband at work?

Working also satisfies social needs too.

yeah well my kids are homeschooled and so are an increasing number of children. And actually that is my number one reason for remaining a SAHM for my kids. If a child is going through a rough time at school, I am not compelled to leave them there,

PMum's at home have more time to produce food for their family allowing them to eat healthier, more time to produce better FHE, when my kids are sick if they were at school fetching them home would be no effort, appointments are no concern. If my husband is sick he gets looked after better, basically if your family is your job you can be engaged in making your family better and more cohesive etc.

[mynewlife]

. My husband is a real man, HE works his butt off so I can stay home. HE works three jobs if he has too, and guess what He does it because he loves not only me, but our children. I plan on being a SAHM until my kids leave for college. I didn't have kids so others could raise them. It is a FULL time job, and harder than any 9-5 job you will ever clock in and out of.

My husband is a real man, too. He has always had one job and it's a Mon - Fri day shift. I've always had one job and it's a Mon - Wed swing shift and weekend graves. I'm not saying that this is what is implied, but I certainly don't think a husband is less of a man if his wife works instead of being a full time mom. Of course, I also think it's wonderful for families if the mom stays home. And, yes, there is more to achieving my eternal salvation than just having babies and keeping the house clean.

Since our two daughters were born, my husband and I have always shared every aspect of parenting and housework. I don't know what our little world looks like to those looking in, nor does it matter, but we have an incredible balance in our lives and we're a happy family. I spend as much time with the girls before school as any full time mom does. I drop them off at school, and do whatever housework or cooking needs to get done before they come home (I even sneak in a nap once a week). School activities are usually Thursdays so I don't miss out. I've managed to make their Halloween costume since they were two. I've had the opportunity to go to their school and volunteer in class, see their choir recitals, take their lunch to school when they've forgotten it, be at home when they were sick, go to school on field day, taken them to doctor's appointments, and anything else a stay at home mom would do.

My husband is a wonderful man who has never complained about spending time with our daughters. Even as babies and toddlers, he would often take them out to stores or restaurants, by himself. As they got older, he would take them camping or fishing with other family members. When my husband is at home with the girls in the evening, he also does whatever housework or cooking needs to be done (supper, snacks, playtime, homework). And not only is he an excellent cook, he's quiet the handyman. My husband and I work well together. (Yeah, I'm not saying we're perfect, but we're happy.) As a family, we enjoy plenty of fun time together. Even though we've made our daughters the priority and any activity we do includes them we don't feel we're missing out on anything.

My daughters have a great relationship with both of us (we're all very close) and they want to share their life with their dad as much as they do with me. They know we love to hear about their experiences. Those experiences are not trivial just because they are children or because they happened in school. They have a strong bond with both of us, and I pray that they continue to feel this way well into their teenage years (they're 10 & 12) when life can be so unpredictable. I hope that the closeness they feel with us now, the bond we've established since they were born, and the love for the gospel that we've shared with them will keep all of us strong when the world challenges us to persevere.

Individually, I think we're all accountable for our actions, our faithfulness, our words, thoughts, and so on. As a married couple, my husband and I need each other not only as a parental partnership or to keep the house from falling apart, but also to support each other spiritually and emotionally. Our love for each other helps us to be respectful towards one another. As a mom, I feel accountable for raising daughters of our Heavenly Father. They are kind, respectful, happy, intelligent, and have a strong testimony of the gospel.

When I look at them and spend time with my family, I know I haven't failed even though I haven't been a stay-at-home-mom or because one load of laundry didn't get done yesterday. A nice set of window treatments and a polished floor isn't gonna cut it.

Edited May 5, 2010 by mynewlife

[dizzysmiles]

The home school vs public/private school issue is an entirely different topic and debate. I'm not promoting working with pre-school children. But once they get into elementary school or so.. it's probably time to find at least a part time job imo.

QUOTE]

I say this with the most upmost respect- You have no idea, and I feel sorry for your future wife.

If I went back to work, then came home to do the duties I do now, guesswho would be the one on the backburner? yeah you guessed it... my relationship with my husband. I know he would rather me take care of my kids. Infact it's me who likes to clean, but he said he would rather me PLAY with my kids all day and do fun things with them. HE would rather come home to a woman ready to be his woman, than a warn out working mom ready to go to bed. He told me when I said I might goback to school after the kids are gone, that if I want to I can, but I won'tever have to work and he said that he would rather I didn't have to work my whole life, so that way when he takes vacation we can travel. when my kids are older, I can enjoy my grandchildren. There are such things at stayathome wives as well. There is plenty to do in the home including helping a spouse with a buisness if one wants too....

Ihave people telling me " You're so lucky you get to stayhome" no, It was a choice I made. We have been through hell and back but to me it's worth it. (I am not disin anyone who wants to or has to work, this is just MY op. I think if you WANT to then fine, but if a husband is MAKING you.... or thinks less of you for not... he needs a day in your shoes)

My husband is a real man, too. He has always had one job and it's a Mon - Fri day shift. I've always had one job and it's a Mon - Wed swing shift and weekend graves. I'm not saying that this is what is implied, but I certainly don't think a husband is less of a man if his wife works instead of being a full time mom. Of course, I also think it's wonderful for families if the mom stays home. And, yes, there is more to achieving my eternal salvation than just having babies and keeping the house clean.

.

To each their own, sounds like you work in the med field. My sister also is a nurse and works one day a week, do I think less of her no. THere are men out there however like my other sister whose husband isn't a real man, and expects her do work, do everything around the house, and raise the children while he spends all the money and gets themselves into a ton of debt. I hear it all the time on the radio and the person on the other end always says " A real man would...." so yes real men come in all different shapes and sizes. It'all a matter of choice. I honestly think my other sister needs to stand up, because if she doesn't he will always walk all over her. It's half her fault.

Edited May 5, 2010 by dizzysmiles

[dizzysmiles]

If I went back to work, then came home to do the duties I do now, guesswho would be the one on the backburner? yeah you guessed it... my relationship with my husband. I know he would rather me take care of my kids. Infact it's me who likes to clean, but he said he would rather me PLAY with my kids all day and do fun things with them. HE would rather come home to a woman ready to be his woman, than a warn out working mom ready to go to bed. He told me when I said I might goback to school after the kids are gone, that if I want to I can, but I won'tever have to work and he said that he would rather I didn't have to work my whole life, so that way when he takes vacation we can travel. when my kids are older, I can enjoy my grandchildren. There are such things at stayathome wives as well. There is plenty to do in the home including helping a spouse with a buisness if one wants too

[dizzysmiles]

My husband is a real man, too. He has always had one job and it's a Mon - Fri day shift. I've always had one job and it's a Mon - Wed swing shift and weekend graves. I'm not saying that this is what is implied, but I certainly don't think a husband is less of a man if his wife works instead of being a full time mom. Of course, I also think it's wonderful for families if the mom stays home. And, yes, there is more to achieving my eternal salvation than just having babies and keeping the house clean.

.

To each their own, sounds like you work in the med field. My sister also is a nurse and works one day a week, do I think less of her no. THere are men out there however like my other sister whose husband isn't a real man, and expects her do work, do everything around the house, and raise the children while he spends all the money and gets themselves into a ton of debt. I hear it all the time on the radio and the person on the other end always says " A real man would...." so yes real men come in all different shapes and sizes. It'all a matter of choice. I honestly think my sister needs to stand up, because if she doesn't he wil always walk all over her. It's half her fault.

[Tarnished]

There are many reasons why a woman would get a job. And if it works best for a family to have duel income with kids then great for them. Most families make it work however it turns out for them. My husband and I have decided that when we have kids then we will try our utmost to have me at home with the kids. Currently we are DINKs (duel income no kids), but we are currently working at having kids and thus also working at getting into a situation where I don't have to work.

And for those mothers who are still stay at home when their kids go off to school, there is a lot to do. True there can be a tendancy to sit at home and do nothing, but when you look at it there is a lot to do out there. Home improvement, service of others, crafts (which can lead to home businesses), church work.

Personally I am working on getting published, writing two books, and trying to get a jewelry business started. With working full time I just do not have enough time to get everything done that I want to have done. And I am wondering if I will have enough time when I am not working. If working is what floats your boat then great! Some people though don't really care much for dealing with other people in the work force. (raises hand) I would much rather stay home and work on the things I want to get done rather than socialize with people at work. And that is fine for me, other people are going to be different and I understand that and am ok with it.

There really is no "should" when it comes to motherhood. There is doing what you can and what you must, and then after that do what you feel you need to. For everyone that is going to be different.

[dizzysmiles]

There are many reasons why a woman would get a job. And if it works best for a family to have duel income with kids then great for them. Most families make it work however it turns out for them. My husband and I have decided that when we have kids then we will try our utmost to have me at home with the kids. Currently we are DINKs (duel income no kids), but we are currently working at having kids

There really is no "should" when it comes to motherhood. There is doing what you can and what you must, and then after that do what you feel you need to. For everyone that is going to be different.

You put the words out of my mouth. Through out this whole post, I think you summed it up great. Women need to help each other regardless of what they do. That IS One of the ways to gain the ultimate blessing HELPING your fellow men and sisters in this life, regardless of status. It's easy to judge that a woman ONLY does..... fill in the blank. However, EVERYONE Has problems, no one should judge because they honestly don't know whats going on in their life. LEt God be the judge, and lets worry about our own lives before we go on worrying about everyone elses.

[Intrigued]

WWhich Law? as far as I am aware most of the world requires an education to be given to your children. Education does not = school, Some countries like Germany

its not the same my Mum was home, knowing if I was in trouble at school she was there was amazing. When I was bullied at school quite badly one day, I was able to step over the wall and walk home, knowing my Mum would be there to do something about the situation, if she had been at work miles away in town I couldn't have done that. Fact is my husband and I work together the children are OUR JOB, and the very best for them is Mum at home until they leave.

I think it is fairly clear that 'school' is just a common term for 'education'. Whether it's public school, private school, or home school.. it's all education. Home vs Public/private is a completely different subject for a completely different thread.

Times have changed also. Cell phones, webcams, texting, etc. all make it much easier to stay in constant communication with your children wherever they are and to provide support from remote locations.

I say this with the most upmost respect- You have no idea, and I feel sorry for your future wife.

Because I will expect her to work instead of doing small amounts of cleaning and watching tv when she has no other responsibilities to occupy her?

Here are a few interesting tidbits that apply to this topic..

Women average 18.22 hours of housework per week.

Men averaged 7.11 hours of housework per week.

Men accurately 'guessed' a wifes amount of housework done per week.. 18.39

Women were inaccurate and 'guessed' 5.96 hours of housework per week for husband

Women who work a paying job totaled (house + job) 47.97 hours/week of work

Men totaled (house + job) 52.44 hours/week of work.

That is a gigantic difference.. especially if the wife isn't working. Also, not factored into that is the fact that when women work men pick up an extra 3-4 hours of house work a week. I left that out because the stats were convincing enough as is. This included children, also.

Powered by Google Docs

Of course there is a great solution to this issue. They both work, they both split responsibilities with the children, they both split the responsibilities of housework. That's just my opinion, though. The idea that 'staying at home' is a full time job and then some may have been true in the past.. but not anymore.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Intrigued