Older Kids Interacting With Younger Kids

[Bini]

This question branches off from this thread after noticing members having different opinions regarding older kids interacting with younger kids. I don't have kids but I'm still interested in knowing your reasons why you believe what you do (yay or nay). So here are just some of my thoughts and scenarios I want to bring up. Each of these are in consideration of significant age differences.

• When is the age gap between children too big for them to interact with each other?

• Does gender make a difference? Would it be better if interaction were same gender or opposite gender?

• Are there exceptions when the children are siblings and not neighbour/school friends?

• Does developmental abilities play a factor? Is a seemingly "normal" child a more ideal playmate than a child with a "disability", such as, Autism or Downs?

• Are older kids nearing legal adulthood safer to entrust little ones when it comes to babysitting or other such responsibilities? Are they at that point less of a potential threat or danger than they were at 12-years of age?

Thanks.

[Elgama]

Because my children are home educated I am used to the groups they go on trips with ranging from 0-18 and so are they we live in a small branch and the children from baby upwards play together the Youth and Primary have always played together the YSA often join in, we have had all manner of children with varying learning difficulties and some find being with younger children easier. My bestfriend at church and I formed our friendship when I was her Primary President, although she was never 11 lol by 13/14 she would play amazingly with my young child and could keep her totally entranced making up games and stories for several hours, my daughter found playing with older children easier, she was at a different level to the children of her own age and would get bored with them after half an hour.

I listen to my instincts with everyone my children mix with age doesn't matter, its because I didn't listen hard enough my daughter was abused by an adult, I had listened enough to not let the adult babysit my children but hadn't kept a close enough watch when my child went to the toilet alone at church (we have a very small building).

Every child develops differently, like my friend at 11 could relate to a 27 year old woman as easily as someone her own age. My kids in primary were amazing I only had 4 they ranged from 18 months to 11 and I promised they wouldn't get separated I knew my 8 year old had spent most of her primary life on her own, so the other three took it in turns to care for the child in the corner, someone helped the 8 year old with her scriptures and we managed. They were amazing with the baby, remember one day, I was very pregnant he wouldn't stop crying I was about to get his Mum and the other 3 grabbed the foam bricks and pelted him, he was giggling in two minutes.

I think schools condition us to believe socialisation has to be with people of the same age, however my daughter socialises and chats away to old people on buses, she has a group of teens she likes she mixes with on the bus and all enrich her life as a result she knos all about how to work the odds out on the gee gees and how to get that perfect shot in golf, she got a fabulous home storage recipe for a cake one day

Edited May 28, 2010 by Elgama

[NeuroTypical]

Good topic. My opinion on the matter springs from a few facts:

* The maturity centers of the young teenage brain are not done cooking yet, and won't be until their early-mid 20's.

* Male hormones are in full swing from the age of puberty onward.

* Most children who are abused, know or are related to their attackers. A hefty percentage of child abusers are 14-21 yr old males.

* Children with mental disabilities are at higher risk of being abused than those without.

Now, none of this means every older kid is an abuser. That's foolish. What it does mean, is that there are categories of risk, and your kid is at a higher risk of being abused by a 14-18 yr old older male kid, than they are with kids of their own age, or female kids of any age.

LM

[Elgama]

Good topic. My opinion on the matter springs from a few facts:

* The maturity centers of the young teenage brain are not done cooking yet, and won't be until their early-mid 20's.

* Male hormones are in full swing from the age of puberty onward.

* Most children who are abused, know or are related to their attackers. A hefty percentage of child abusers are 14-21 yr old males.

* Children with mental disabilities are at higher risk of being abused than those without.

Now, none of this means every older kid is an abuser. That's foolish. What it does mean, is that there are categories of risk, and your kid is at a higher risk of being abused by a 14-18 yr old older male kid, than they are with kids of their own age, or female kids of any age.

LM

mine was fine with the teenage males she mixes with they enriched her life in many ways it was a 50 year old and a 20 year old women that abused her

[not_ashamed]

I would have to agree with much of what loudmouth has said. I have 2 daughters and 1 son. I use my instincts much of the time and keep a close eye on what all my kids are doing and who they are playing with. That being said I will tell you, that I would be much more uncomfortable with my son spending time alone with an older boy than I would my daughters playing with older girls. I keep a close eye on all men who interact with my son. From his coaches in various activities to his teachers at school.

[ryanh]

LM, I fully agree with the factors you point out as matters for consideration. And they relate well to the thread being referred.

However, I think we can all agree that the suspicion factor is much higher when we see a 20 or 30 something that shows undue interest in a young child than a 12 year old. Probability and suspicions are not going to be equal.

And, the issue of molestation is clearly a concern to be considered in regards to females also. Females are perpetrators too, and some studies of the reported disparity indicate that underreporting of female abusers is likely driving some misperceptions, but does not necessarily represent reality.

[Tarnished]

I really think it would depend on the situation. I have known examples where a older child (or person) and a younger child do just fine together. And I have also known examples where an older child (or person) and a younger child leads to abuse or bullying. I think what really needs to be considered is how they are interacting with each other. If a parent does not feel comfortable then I see no reason why they shouldn't stop contact immediately. Better safe than sorry.

[addicthelp]

Time for a strong opinion :) You may not agree and yes, a mothers (and even father's) instinct can be a very good measure as already stated.

The general rule to stay safe is to keep kids fairly closely age specific. 2 years difference tops is a general age rule many psychologists recommend. I agree. Most importantly is that parents do not leave things to chance. it is vital that parents know when, where, and with whom their children are playing.

Here are some stats:

*In 1990 statistics proved about 1 in 4 adults admitted being sexually abused in some form as children.

*60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today.

*The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most do not report the offense.

*About 95% of victims know their perpetrators.

*About 60% of the male survivors sampled report at least one of their perpetrators to be female.

In other words...be vigilant as parents and aware. If you are in doubt, do not chance it :)

[Bini]

Time for a strong opinion :) You may not agree and yes, a mothers (and even father's) instinct can be a very good measure as already stated.

The general rule to stay safe is to keep kids fairly closely age specific. 2 years difference tops is a general age rule many psychologists recommend. I agree. Most importantly is that parents do not leave things to chance. it is vital that parents know when, where, and with whom their children are playing.

Here are some stats:

*In 1990 statistics proved about 1 in 4 adults admitted being sexually abused in some form as children.

*60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today.

*The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most do not report the offense.

*About 95% of victims know their perpetrators.

*About 60% of the male survivors sampled report at least one of their perpetrators to be female.

In other words...be vigilant as parents and aware. If you are in doubt, do not chance it :)

I agree and will assume that these statistics are accurate.

I will also say, however, that I would bet arm and leg that these incidents happened without parental supervision.

[addicthelp]

I agree and will assume that these statistics are accurate.

I will also say, however, that I would bet arm and leg that these incidents happened without parental supervision.

Unfortunately, I beleive most incidents do happen without parental supervision. If a child has been sexually abused...it is vital that they get help as early as possible to process those things.

Here is the link to those stats:

Child Abuse Research and Statistics

[Elgama]

I find it incredibly sad that our first assumption is a teenage male is going to rape a child that is sad. sad,sad, I know teenage males that love working with children, and make exceptional baby sitters. NO wonder so many American Men are scumbags right from a tiny child that is what you are taught you are, that you are incapable of being trusted round a small child.

Tell a dog it oinks often enough ti believes its a pig. What disturbs me is the number of men that say this - would you honestly have molested and raped a child just because you were a teenager? I'm sorry but most men of all ages in my life are better than that they have the ability of self control even as a teens. They can remain chaste if they want etc

[Bini]

Elgama, I understand what you're saying and agree.

That's like telling your kids that they'll never succeed in the world because they're black, people are out to get them and the whole world is against them. So don't even try because they won't make it. You do see that kind of mindset in certain areas of the country here in the US and those children grow up without hopes or dreams to make something of themselves. All because no one believed in them to begin with and set them up for failure by imprinting unfair and negative notions in their heads.

I think people need to be careful of what kinds of "stigmas" they put onto their children. Fear breeds. If you fear something and continue to pass that fear onto your children, it will continue onto their children. It's an unfortunate situation. It reminds me of how in the good ole days, grandpas and grandmas could coo over other people's children out in public but anymore, you'd better watch out because you might be conceived as a pedophile! I see this all too often with young mothers in stores that are quick to shoot a disapproving look to grandpa or grandma simply smiling or waving at their kids.

[NeuroTypical]

*The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most do not report the offense.

I'm thinking this figure might have been overtaken by 22 years of newer research. We know much more about child sex offenders today than we knew about them in 1988.

So many kids who were abused, repeat the behaviors as they enter their teen years. Seems like a pretty unrealistic burden to heap onto someone: "You got abused as a kid, now you repeated the behavior? Well, odds are - you'll find 116 more kids before you're even considered 'average'! Might as well get to it!" I don't think it's that bad.

LM

[Elgama]

this thread has oddly had a huge impact on me, coupled with a similar conversation in a chatroom. I am a Mother of 2 boys and I am struggling with the idea they will be seen as sex mad maniacs unable to control themselves simply because they enter their teen years. The branch I live in has some exceptional young men, not one would I doubt my children with. They have played with my children and taught them so much. And I would be delighted and relieved if my daughter ended up with anyone of them as a boyfriend if she was old enough

There was a quote at the end of Criminal Minds that went something along the lines of by teaching children suspicion of strangers we inoculate children against 3% of crime against young children and perpetuate 97% of crime because the children have an inbuilt suspicion of people that actually they should be talking too.

In my country the rate of child abuse and non familial child kidnap whilst more publicized is actually not much different to 30 years ago

[Dravin]

I find it incredibly sad that our first assumption is a teenage male is going to rape a child that is sad. sad,sad, I know teenage males that love working with children, and make exceptional baby sitters. NO wonder so many American Men are scumbags right from a tiny child that is what you are taught you are, that you are incapable of being trusted round a small child.

It hasn't turned me into a scumbag but what the suspicion has done has made me fear getting close to any child who is not my flesh and blood or close friend's. How might that manifest? If I see your child looking lost and confused in the mall (or even on the street) I will not go up to them, ask them if they've lost their Mommy or Daddy, and escort them to the nearest mall cop/proper authority; it means I give them a wide birth and go on my way, possibly inform one of the aforementioned authority figures.

A couple real life examples is several times smaller kids have needed help reaching the faucet or the soap dispensers or paper towel in a public restroom, I resisted the urge to help them (similar situation with public drinking fountains, turning the nob/pushing the button and being able to drink at the same time) from fear that some crazy parent is going to cry child molester. Actually just yesterday we were parked at a gas station to turn in some Red Box DVDs and I was waiting in the car and some 3 year old wondered past the car and started heading out into the flow of gas station traffic without a parent in sight. I just stayed in the car wondering where the parent was, feeling like I should probably take the kid into the store or something for his own safety but also scared to actually interact with the child. Luckily the kid's Mom noticed and called to the kid before he became a speed bump.

Kinda sad that kids and parents treat me (though not a teenager I'm an unmarried male) as if I have the plague and as a result I feel like I must treat their child the same way and assume they (the parents) will level one of the worst (if not the worst, nothing shuts down critical thinking like the cry of, "think of the children!") accusation possible in this society. I don't know how common my paranoia/concern is amongst others though.

P.S. Sorry, I've mentioned this before I probably come across as whining.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Dravin

[Elgama]

No your not whining Dravin it disturbs me this suspicion that everyone is a pedophile and the ridiculous panic involved is ruining society, I am lucky I still live in a good area, where the older people love it when my daughter sits next to them on the bus and chats to them or will help me onto the bus, offer to hold the baby for me, when I am stuck when out I have had a lady help take my daughter to the loo etc, but I know my own generation because of this step back won't help, many won't even open a door for me. I think our grandchildren and if I lived somewhere else my children would miss out on an awful lot, I watch their lives being enriched by the old man on the bus that started carrying fishing flies to show my daughter, the old lady that gives my daughter recipes to try with me when we get home etc, have to say teenagers are better than middle aged people, one lovely girl about 18 happily entertained my daughter for me and just grinned when my daughter chose to sit in between her and her boyfriend lol

I have had criticism at church because I have let people with learning difficulties hold my children, or play with them, but I know I could hand my colicky baby over to one of the lady's and my daughter would settle down and stop crying, no one else could do that. My daughter clearly felt the calming spirit. NOt one of them would do my children any deliberate harm, they are loved by so many people

In age when families live so far apart from each other we need to build new villages to raise our children in and this attitude prevents it. I think its great that my sons can have good responsible teenage males around them it gives them something to aspire too.

Dravin I completely agree with you, keep saying it someone might start listening and society may become a better place again. Plus if children are allowed to interact with people maybe they are less likely to be hurt, because you are taught then to be street wise and trust your instincts, I know it has served me well and it was something I was taught.

As I will keep saying my daughter was abused by 2 grown women, very well educated and very plausible it was my gut that told me to keep her away and whilst I am annoyed I didn't take it more seriously imagine what had happened if I ignored it completely and allowed her to babysit?

I was just blessed that when my neighbours, decided to use graffiti to brand me as a pedophile which resulted in all sorts happening one of the guys who knocked on my door from the local gang, During my teenage years, I had babysat as a child he knew not only had I been the most loving stable influence in his life, I had stood between him and his very drunk Father when he came in, in a temper, and sent him to bed to sober up, then stayed the night, as a result I have had no bother relating to it since, because he also knows I wouldn't stand for my husband harming a child

Edited May 31, 2010 by Elgama

[hordak]

I don't like older kids generally playing with mine (and it depends on the age difference on other circumstances) not based on the fear that everyone is a potential molester but based on the power differential. I never had young siblings but i can't tell you how many times we got one of my friends younger siblings (or a younger kid who wished to hang out) to do something dumb because we, with our vast knowledge at the age of 10 or what ever, "knew" little billy should eat dirt, or would "be cool"if he put the toilet plunger on his head.

Bullies come in all ages but it's much easier for a child to stand up to a peer then an "elder".

[Guest]

As proven by Montessori, an important part of learning is the ability to lead and teach. That is why, in Montessori schools, all the classes are mix aged. The younger kids start their learning by observation, the older kids enhance their learning by practice/doing, the oldest kids learn by teaching.

You can train your kids to protect themselves from child molesters. And in addition, you can control the environment to lower the risk. But, in my house, what I did to control the environment is to buy a house in a good neighborhood where crime is lower then get to know all the people that my family is in contact with. Then I teach the kids to make good choices, be aware, and know how to protect themselves.

Then they can have fun. They interact with friends from the ward from 0 to 99 yrs old. We hold monthly ward parties in my house (combined family home evening event) as part of our ward fellowship commitment. They invite their school friends and their older/younger brothers for play days. They run around with the neighborhood kids. Their babysitter is a 16-year-old Aaronic priest in our ward and sometimes his 14-year-old brother. They wrestle and play soccer and ride bikes and play pirates and sword fights and build forts. I prefer that than the girl who won't do anything but sit them infront of the TV.

They know what good touch/bad touch is, they know not to run off on their own, not even to go to the bathroom. They know to ask for permission before going past the established "boundaries" in our neighborhood or going with anybody, even friends. They take mixed martial arts. And we talk about everything and anything... a lot. They come to me when they have problems or just have some worry or not-too-good feelings. We talk it out and find a solution.

If they get molested, it's not because we let an older kid play with them. They get molested because some idiot targetted my kids and planned it very carefully. If somebody wants to molest your kid that bad, putting your kid inside a glass case is not going to prevent the molester from getting to your kid.

You only live once. Instead of living our lives in a constant state of fear, we opt to educate and prepare ourselves then live our lives to the fullest.

Edited June 2, 2010 by anatess

[Guest]

It hasn't turned me into a scumbag but what the suspicion has done has made me fear getting close to any child who is not my flesh and blood or close friend's. How might that manifest? If I see your child looking lost and confused in the mall (or even on the street) I will not go up to them, ask them if they've lost their Mommy or Daddy, and escort them to the nearest mall cop/proper authority; it means I give them a wide birth and go on my way, possibly inform one of the aforementioned authority figures.

A couple real life examples is several times smaller kids have needed help reaching the faucet or the soap dispensers or paper towel in a public restroom, I resisted the urge to help them (similar situation with public drinking fountains, turning the nob/pushing the button and being able to drink at the same time) from fear that some crazy parent is going to cry child molester. Actually just yesterday we were parked at a gas station to turn in some Red Box DVDs and I was waiting in the car and some 3 year old wondered past the car and started heading out into the flow of gas station traffic without a parent in sight. I just stayed in the car wondering where the parent was, feeling like I should probably take the kid into the store or something for his own safety but also scared to actually interact with the child. Luckily the kid's Mom noticed and called to the kid before he became a speed bump.

Kinda sad that kids and parents treat me (though not a teenager I'm an unmarried male) as if I have the plague and as a result I feel like I must treat their child the same way and assume they (the parents) will level one of the worst (if not the worst, nothing shuts down critical thinking like the cry of, "think of the children!") accusation possible in this society. I don't know how common my paranoia/concern is amongst others though.

P.S. Sorry, I've mentioned this before I probably come across as whining.

I have a different perspective, Dravin.

I interact with all the kids in my sphere of influence. I help them, I talk to them, I give them hugs if they need it. Somebody wants to call me a child molester, they are welcome to try. It won't stop me from doing what I feel is right.

I see this as the same thing as Peter being asked if he knew Jesus. Peter denied the Christ 3 times before he realized fear has led him away from doing what is right.

[Dravin]

I see it more like the Church does when it gives counsel to missionaries. Best to avoid situations that lead to lawsuits, damaging accusations and ruined lives. Especially when it concerns the children of a society who's parents have collectively, by their attitude, told me to keep away from their kid for any and all reasons.

I understand though that's just your view, which is fine. The risks and rewards of our differing takes are our own to bear.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Dravin

[Elgama]

I don't like older kids generally playing with mine (and it depends on the age difference on other circumstances) not based on the fear that everyone is a potential molester but based on the power differential. I never had young siblings but i can't tell you how many times we got one of my friends younger siblings (or a younger kid who wished to hang out) to do something dumb because we, with our vast knowledge at the age of 10 or what ever, "knew" little billy should eat dirt, or would "be cool"if he put the toilet plunger on his head.

Bullies come in all ages but it's much easier for a child to stand up to a peer then an "elder".

not everyone is a bully I wouldn't have dreamt of treating a younger child like that too scared of my Mother's reaction

[Guest]

I see it more like the Church does when it gives council to missionaries. Best to avoid situations that lead to lawsuits, damaging accusations and ruined lives. Especially when it concerns the children of a society who's parents have collectively, by their attitude, told me to keep away from their kid for any and all reasons.

I understand though that's just your view, which is fine. The risks and rewards of our differing takes are our own to bear.

I do pray though, that if my child ever heads toward trouble and you are there to steer him clear of it, that you would not hesitate to take him by the hand and lead him back to me.

[justaname]

Im glad this topic is getting some further discussion. It is sad that our society has given us reason to question a relationship between two people with significant age disparity. In regards to Elgama's posts, I dont think that there is any generalization here that every teenage boy is a sex offender. Yes, teenage boys are hormonally raging at that time in their lives, but I dont think anyone here instantly assumes that they are all molesters.

What originally started this topic, as Bini referenced, was an issue I have with my neighbors. They have a son (12) that constantly comes to our home wanting to play with my 4 year old boy. We allow our son to go outside and play, but keep a close eye on what is going on. With summer approaching and school getting out, I fear that this will become an every day thing. The question to me is WHY is a 12 year old wanting to play with a 4 year old? I remember being 12 and having lots of games in our neighborhood that involved a wide range of ages. Hide and seek, capture the flag, etc. Sometimes there would be a 15 year old, and maybe even down to a 7 year old playing. We had lots of fun and nothing strange ever happened. In that setting, it was much more fun having lots of people involved. However, when I was that age, I NEVER recalled even thinking going to someones home asking if their 4 year old could play. I cant help but assume that most 12 year olds, or young teenage boys have no interest in playing with a child that young. Now, is this kid molesting our son? I doubt it. We watch closely. But WHY isnt this kid seeking friendship with his peers?

I dont know if there is a rule of thumb that tells you when too old is too old, but to me this is too old. Id say within 3-4 years would be fine. Anything else would make me proceed with caution. But all that depends on the ages involved too. A 15 year old wanting to play with a 12 year old. Fine. An 8 year old wanting to play with a five year old. Weird, but Id be ok with it. A 21 year old boy coming over to see my 17 year old girl? Only if he wants to die.

[Guest]

Im glad this topic is getting some further discussion. It is sad that our society has given us reason to question a relationship between two people with significant age disparity. In regards to Elgama's posts, I dont think that there is any generalization here that every teenage boy is a sex offender. Yes, teenage boys are hormonally raging at that time in their lives, but I dont think anyone here instantly assumes that they are all molesters.

What originally started this topic, as Bini referenced, was an issue I have with my neighbors. They have a son (12) that constantly comes to our home wanting to play with my 4 year old boy. We allow our son to go outside and play, but keep a close eye on what is going on. With summer approaching and school getting out, I fear that this will become an every day thing. The question to me is WHY is a 12 year old wanting to play with a 4 year old? I remember being 12 and having lots of games in our neighborhood that involved a wide range of ages. Hide and seek, capture the flag, etc. Sometimes there would be a 15 year old, and maybe even down to a 7 year old playing. We had lots of fun and nothing strange ever happened. In that setting, it was much more fun having lots of people involved. However, when I was that age, I NEVER recalled even thinking going to someones home asking if their 4 year old could play. I cant help but assume that most 12 year olds, or young teenage boys have no interest in playing with a child that young. Now, is this kid molesting our son? I doubt it. We watch closely. But WHY isnt this kid seeking friendship with his peers?

I dont know if there is a rule of thumb that tells you when too old is too old, but to me this is too old. Id say within 3-4 years would be fine. Anything else would make me proceed with caution. But all that depends on the ages involved too. A 15 year old wanting to play with a 12 year old. Fine. An 8 year old wanting to play with a five year old. Weird, but Id be ok with it. A 21 year old boy coming over to see my 17 year old girl? Only if he wants to die.

Is it a case of either playing with your 4-year-old or playing with nobody?

[justaname]

Is it a case of either playing with your 4-year-old or playing with nobody?

No, he is actually a twin so he should have someone to play with all the time. We live in a nice neighborhood with several other young men his own age. Both boys (the twins) seem like they are socially behind though.