Should we be worried -- do not knock list

[Choseph]

Check this out:

NY Town Considering 'Do Not Knock' List - The Consumerist

My concern is that door to door proselytizing will become illegal. What?!?! A quote:

"Do not knock lists have begun to spurt up in communities across the country...."

If it becomes illegal to go door to door, what will our reaction be? Still do it in the name of sharing the faith? What can we do now to prevent this crazyness? I mean, I understand that someone doesn't have to open the door, listen to the missionary, or even invite them in but to say knocking on their door is prohibited? I can't believe it. I imagine a crazy lawsuit where someone knocks on a neighbor's door to ask for two cups of flour and gets sued.

Choseph

[applepansy]

There are constitutional issues on both sides of this. A do not knock list will affect business and not just missionary work. I would imagine Warren Buffet would have a few things to say about it. He owns the Kirby company and Kirby's are only sold door-to-door. There are people who get upset but as long as there is a licence the police are not concerned.

The do not knock lists are to help people feel safe. They just want to know who is in the neighborhood. The can be and is currently being addressed through business and prosletyzing (sp?) licensing in communities who have laws against soliciting.

[Guest Alana]

I had someone knock on my door today. I guess saying "I'm totally not interested at all" and "I totally don't agree" and "there's no way I'm signing anything for you" weren't clear enough for her... she just kept going on about how urgent it all was. It was lame.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Alana

[UrbanFool]

Alana, what'd she want?

[Moksha]

The name Green River Ordinance is given to a common United States city ordinance prohibiting door-to-door solicitation. Under such an ordinance, it is illegal for any business to sell their items door-to-door without express permission from the household beforehand. Some versions prohibit all organizations, including non-profit charitable, political, and religious groups, from soliciting or canvassing any household that makes it clear, in writing, that it does not want such solicitations (generally with a "No Trespassing" or "No Solicitations" sign posted.)

I remember seeing signs posted about the Green River Ordinance being in effect since I was a kid. Think it killed off the Fuller Brush business.

BTW, doesn't the ATF have a don't knock policy?

Edited July 30, 2010 by Moksha

[Matthew0059]

If the door-to-door sales industry would be more honest, I wonder if this law would even be considered. I worked for a few months last summer trying to sell security systems- no one (not my boss, trainer, or sales partners) cared if there was a "No Soliciting" sign at all. If they thought it was a good prospect, they'd bullrush on up (they also walked across people's lawns and got annoyed at me when I refused to).

I don't think this would make a huge dent in the Church's proselyting efforts, though. As I understand it, door-to-door proselytizing is one of the least effective methods. The best is to have a member get someone interested and set a meeting up for their friends.

We, as members of the Church, just need to get out there more!

[Guest Alana]

Alana, what'd she want?

If I tell you, you'll say I hate the environment:P

Ok, I'll tell, it was about the ban of Styrofoam and plastic bags in California. Basically she said that the plastic bags are killing sea turtles and that we need to force companies to stop using these bags. She said it would only force the larger chain stores since they could absorb the cost and that the unions were in favor of it.

I told her that I'd look into it but right now I'm almost sure to favor business over forcing any sort of ban and that unions being for it really meant nothing to me.

[Mahone]

We've had these rules in effect across several parts of England for some time now. It's not just about the annoyance of having salespeople knocking on the door at the worst possible moment, but also about security - many known scams involve distracting the person at the front door in some way. It helps if the residents of the area know it's 100% banned.

As for the annoyance part, I find the telephone cold calls far more annoying. At work they are partly responsible for me still having a tonne of work to do at the end of each day. That said, we rarely get sales people knocking on our door in these parts (maybe one every two years or so). Not sure why that is, must just be a bad area for sales.

I don't think missionaries are really affected too much by it. Instead they will just stop people in the street as opposed to coming to their houses.

[UrbanFool]

Alana, I don't think you hate the environment :) I always snip the handles on plastic bags, but then I worked in wildlife rescue for 12 years. I try to make sure Larry takes cloth bags, but he often uses more than we have. I guess I should buy a few more.

I don't get the idea of a "no knock" law. It's yet one more layer of bureaucracy. Just put up a "no solicitation" sign. Simple and does the trick.

[UrbanFool]

Somehow, our phone number got connected with the girl who used to live in this house, so we get bunches of credit calls for her. Plus calls for some guy we've never heard of. I've tried calling their 800 number to get off their list, but it's so confusing I end up hanging up on the machine.

[Wingnut]

Just put up a "no solicitation" sign. Simple and does the trick.

It doesn't. As missionaries, we'd ignore those signs, because technically we weren't selling anything. Other people just don't care, as it's typically not actually back by law enforcement. Not-for-profit groups often don't fall under solicitation, either. It's the wording of this law that will be telling: how will they define "soliciting?" Will the no-knock list include political canvassing during election years (which has been shown to be very effective)? Will it include religious groups? High school students raising money for band? Girls Scouts selling cookies? Boy Scouts selling popcorn? Or will it just include traditional door-to-door salesmen types?

To answer the OP (who, based on his posting history, I still do not believe is LDS, thus rendering the "we" part of the question invalid), door-to-door tracting is almost the least effective method of finding people to teach. It's usually a waste of time and energy. The missionary efforts of the Church would be far more effective if missionaries were no longer allowed to tract. So would this law adversely affect us? Only in that missionaries in Rye, NY will have a tough adjustment period as they struggle to fill their days with more meaningful finding and teaching activities.

(Side note: It is the missionaries' job to teach investigators. It is the members' job to find them.)

[Gwen]

depending on the state you could post a no trespassing sign (could add soliciting, etc to it as well) it is all you need and it is very enforceable by law enforcement. however, a one time event where the person respectfully leaves after being told no (not the pushy stuff) then the law would probably do little. that would have to be a civil lawsuit i guess.

[Dravin]

It doesn't. As missionaries, we'd ignore those signs, because technically we weren't selling anything.

Some (possibly many or most) missionaries ignore those signs. I never received instruction to ignore them from my Mission leadership (and honestly even if I had I still would have honored them). Technically we aren't selling anything but in my experience the vast majority of people who put up such signs feel it includes us. So while we can wrangle with the language to justify ignoring the sign in the end they put up the sign as a way of telling me to leave them alone.

I never felt that ignoring someone's attempts to tell me they don't want to talk to me was the best first impression. Of course I had a couple hard sale tactic companions and I constantly had to resist the urge to slap them upside the head for their boorish behavior. If you couldn't tell I hate hard sale tactics. I always felt they crossed the line from boldness to overbearance and I never felt they went along with this scripture (the one on my Missionary plaque incidentally):

41 And let your preaching be the warning voice, every man to his neighbor, in mildness and in meekness.

I know folks opinions are gonna differ, and I'm coming on fairly strong. This is just a pet peeve of mine.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Dravin

[Moksha]

I know folks opinions are gonna differ, and I'm coming on fairly strong. This is just a pet peeve of mine.

It was a wonderful pet peeve, since by refusing to be a salesman for the Church, you became an ambassador instead.

[ADoyle90815]

One thing I've noticed is that the LDS missionaries don't seem to tract as much anymore as they seem to go from member referrals now. The Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand, still seem to rely on going door to door.

[Wingnut]

One thing I've noticed is that the LDS missionaries don't seem to tract as much anymore as they seem to go from member referrals now. The Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand, still seem to rely on going door to door.

I've been tracted by the JWs five times in probably four months on my street. They really need to start keeping an area book.

[Jenamarie]

I've been tracted by the JWs five times in probably four months on my street. They really need to start keeping an area book.

Are you taking their literature? They put you down for a follow-up visit if you do.

[Wingnut]

Are you taking their literature? They put you down for a follow-up visit if you do.

I usually hide upstairs or in the basement and wait until they're gone before even showing up on the main floor where the doors are.