Allah or God by any other name

[Sean1427]

The first article of the LDS faith begins: “We believe in Allah, the Eternal Father, . . .” Before any fellow Mormons stone me for heresy or blasphemy, let me point out that, with one small change, I am correct. The change would be that all the other words in this sentence should also be in Arabic. I’ve simply used the English since very few in the audience would know what I’m referring to if I didn’t use the English to show the context. (Source: the Arabic translation of the Doctrine & Covenants)

Not only is Allah used in the first article of faith, but the Arabic translations of LDS scriptures, as well as all Arabic translations of the Bible, use Allah as the Arabic equivalent of the English word God. This would mean that were there an Arabic speaking ward within the LDS Church, in say NYC or LA, the sacrament prayers would also begin by invoking the name of Allah.

Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Spanish speakers refer to God as “Dios,” French speakers as “Dieu,” and Germans speakers as “Gott.” For native speakers of Arabic--whether Jew, Muslim, Christian or other--Allah is the name for God.

This being so, I have a question. Why is it that the American media fails to translate the name Allah into English? (This might be the same in other English speaking countries, but as an American, I’m more familiar with American media does.) The American masses follow the media’s lead and refer to God of Islam as Allah. I can’t fault them too much in this since most Americans aren’t very good at foreign languages. But those in the media—journalists, reporters, anchors, editors, and even authors—who write or speak about Muslims and Islam have to know what’s going on. If they do not, they are certainly failing to both do their homework and accurately inform the public.

Granted, we can lay part of the blame, perhaps, at the feet of some Muslims, who in English conversations will use the Arabic Allah out of respect for the name of God. (Muslims believe Arabic is the literal language of God; hence, there are Muslims who would use Allah out of reverence even when speaking another language for same reasons religious Jews won’t spell out the name of God in writing and all English speakers capitalize the first letter of His name in writing, the latter being something you can't do when writing Arabic since Arabic has no upper-case letters.) But the American media certainly is not using Allah out of respect to Islam or Muslims or God. English newspapers published in Muslim Middle Eastern lands always translate Allah to the English God for their English readers, but the US media does not do this. If a journalist interviewed someone in Spanish and media translated that interview into English, Dios would, of course, be translated along with every other word in that interview. But this does not happen when the topic involves Islam.

I suspect that one reason for this failure is rooted in simple ignorance. Most reporters don't get to the Middle East and most probably aren't any better at foreign languages than most of their audience. But for any reporter actually reporting from the Middle East, or even those working with Muslims in the West, this should not be an excuse as they have a duty to either know their subject or get out of the business. A second reason deals with money—the media is a business, and profits are the goal of any business. Hence, the media simply gives the audience what the audience and their advertisers what both of the latter want to read and hear. There may be other reasons.

But my question again is this: why do those in the American media fail to translate the Arabic name for God into English?

Edited August 3, 2010 by Sean1427

[ozzy]

Are you asking why the American media uses the name 'Allah' instead of just saying 'God' when referring to the Islamic faith? My guess is because at present there is enough animosity between radical muslims and radical christians that they are afraid of the potential uproar. Besides this, I think it is also similar to how most christians view mormons and our belief in Christ. Many in the Christian world believe that we believe in a different Jesus Christ. We don't of course, but they believe we do simply because of the immense difference between us and most christians. I am certain that this principle applies just as well to how christians view muslim worship. They probably don't view that similarity the same way that you and I do because of the extreme differences of religion.

Does that answer your question? It is totally opinion, but I can't think of any factual information on this topic.

[Sean1427]

In part I very much agree with you, Ozzy, that it's likely because of animosity and is certainly something that public would not allow. However, this has been happening for decades, long before 9/11. Ironically, English newspapers in the Middle East have also been translating God's name into English for decades. I also agree with the second point you made. While many Christians do not view Mormons as Christian and think that we believe in a different god, the reality is that this is true for numerous Christian denominations, where all have different notions as to who or what God really is. All the different religions represented in my family certainly have very different views of God. (I sometimes think that in this sense, Christianity has a lot in common with Hinduism!) But again, what I find amazing is that this has gone on since Islam's been a topic of discussion in the West, which actually goes back to the Middle Ages. Nothing's changed. I'll share something with you that very much fits what you've written--one of the biggest problems Mormons have in the Middle East are not the Muslims, but rather Christians from other denominations. Wherever we go, we just carry our baggage with us. Thanks very much for your comments and your thoughts.

[Sean1427]

I appreciate the thoughts shared by Ozzy and Changed, but I think I need to shed a little light on my background, especially since I haven't really created a profile. I'm LDS, as you can guess from my first post, but I am one of the few Americans who actually lives and works in the Middle East. I have been there since several years before 9/11, and I'm probably more familiar with Islam, the Middle East, and Arabic than the vast majority of Americans are, both because of experience and research. Hence, a lot of my comments, and this thread in particular, are based on my experiences both there and in the US.

I'd like to touch on one of Ozzy's thoughts on why the US media will not translate the Arabic name for God into English. He wrote: "because at present there is enough animosity between radical muslims and radical christians that they are afraid of the potential uproar." I agree that this is part of the reason. However, I also believe that it's simply one more blatant example of how the vaunted US media is doingn a great disservice to everyone, including its audience. Because of their fear of an uproar, those in the media leave everyone uninformed as to the truth, something which is easily verified. Hence, we end up with all those in the middle in the dark. My experience has shown me that the vast majority of American Mormons are as much in the dark as are the majority of non-Mormon Americans on this particular point. While understanding this point is not something one needs to go to the ME to learn and understand, it does require some study and good thinking outside the box by those who live in the US, something that very few seem to do. For me to mention something like this in my ward in the US is still very difficult because many American members get upset and I'm viewed as a trouble maker of sorts.

But let me clarify my question. Those in the media can't all be blind to what is happening. Hence, at some level, someone has to be making a decision not to translate from Arabic to English. So I'm curious about who are making this decision and how the decision is made. Is it an example of self-censorship by journalists and reporters, or is there some kind of official policy that states that Allah will never be translated into English, or . . . ? I suspect that the only ones who can really answer this kind of specific question are journalists, reporters or editors who deal directly with this kind of issue. But it remains something I've always been curious about.

By the way, Changed, thanks for what you shared. I agree with you that God speaks to all His children. The First Presidency has certainly made that clear as have the scriptures. Interestingly, Muslims believe the same thing. As for the tree of life you quickly touched on, ask The Traveler about the story he shared with and reminded me of regarding how Muslim Arabs in the area of the Arabian Peninsula view the Tree of Life as applied to Lehi's dream. It's a good story, one you'll really appreciate.

[ozzy]

I agree that this is an example of media doing disservice. Personally I think they do disservices to many things.

I would guess, though I can't be sure, that it is self-censorship. I am unaware of any policy except perhaps an unspoken one that dates back to the crusades or something. That said, me being unaware of it certainly isn't saying much. :)

[UrbanFool]

This is also the first time (in modern history) that the dispute has been a religious one (Arguably. A lot of people believe it's only about oil.) By using the term Allah, the subject one is talking about is clear --such as when we use the term Nazis. But Nazi doesn't have anything to do with God or infidels. Allah clearly denotes a line separating "us" from "them".

[Moksha]

It was my understanding that God prefers Jacobean English, even though some insist French was spoken on Kolob.

It is not known as to which words are used on Obliblish and Enish-go-on-Dosh.

[UrbanFool]

How come Muslim people don't translate Allah into God when they're speaking? They say Allah when they're speaking in English.

[Hemidakota]

It was my understanding that God prefers Jacobean English, even though some insist French was spoken on Kolob.

It is not known as to which words are used on Obliblish and Enish-go-on-Dosh.

Since it was written in Egyptian tongue and not French or English, Oliblish - Enish go on dosh, and Kaii ven rash, are the three grand central powers that govern all the other creations, which have been sought out by the most aged of all the fathers, since the beginning of the creation, by means of the Urim and Thummim (written by Joseph Smith Jr.) :

The names of the other twelve of the fixed stars are:

1. Kolob,

2. Limdi,

3. Zip,

4. Vusel,

5. Venisti,

6. Waine,

7. Wayoh=ox=oan,

8. Oansli,

9. Shible,

10. Shineflis,

11. Flis,

12. Os.

[Sean1427]

UrbanFool, the answer to your question might be in my initial post where I pointed out that some Muslims are partly to blame in that for them the Arabic language is truly sacred since it's viewed as the literal language of God. It's similar to our capitalizing "God" in English when we write or the Jewish practice of not saying the name of God or omitting the vowels in writing such as The Traveler does. So you're correct that many do use the Allah when speaking English. It's done out of respect and reverance for the name of God. (Of course, that makes me think of another thread I might start that involves taking the name of God in vain, but perhaps later on that one. I don't want to veer off track on my own thread!) Believing that Arabic is the language of God is a view hard for many of us to understand. But for Muslims this means that the language, as I've said, is sacred. This is why no Muslim would do to the Qur'an what most of us do to the Bible, BOM, or D&C--they would never mark it up, highlight it, or place it on a booshelf with other books. This is also why most Muslims read and recite the Qur'an in Arabic even if they do not understand Arabic very well. There is a belief that saying the words themselves is important, even empowering. Believe or not, one of the problems foreign teachers have in Saudi is that many students believe cheating is OK as long as it's not done in Arabic. This, to me, is similar to Christians who believe it's OK to lie to get a visa into a Muslim country or break the laws you've agreed to obey since they are Muslim, not Christian. (I've even read that this was one of America's justifications for breaking every treaty we ever made with the Indian nations.) So while many of us might laugh at what Muslims are doing, we need to realize that we probably have things we do or think that other's might laugh at as well. BYU Arabic language and Islamic studies professor Daniel Peterson has a great article at Meridanmagazine.com that discusses how intelligent people everywhere have certain beliefs that might make others wonder how an intelligent person could actually believe such. If you're interested in reading the article, let me know and I'll get you the URL.

However, not all Muslims say Allah when speaking English, German or some other non-Arabic language. Most of the ones I speak with in the US, Europe and the ME do like anyone else would do who's speaking in a foreign language--they use the name for God in the language they are using at the time. This is certainly true of their media in the ME when the targeted audience are English speakers. My question, however, is why our media won't do so. We certainly have editors and journalists who have a decent background in Arabic and the ME and know what's going on. If they don't have the background, they could easily find out. But it seems to be the rule that the US media--whatever the reasons might be (ignorance, fear of angering the audience, propaganda, or whatever)--will not translate the word.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Sean1427

[SanctitasDeo]

I found it interesting that in Russia, Christians and Muslims alike say Allah, but in Russian (though honestly it sounds the same in Arabic and in Russian), rather than just the word God. Same tendency there as well, and I think it is quite an old one.

I suppose it is possible (in Russia, anyway) that the Muslims who lived there wanted to differentiate themselves and their religion from the Christians surrounding them. While we tend to think of both Allah and God as the same person, there are those to whom it is advantageous to keep them separate, whether that is because they want to stir up hate against one side or the other or due to a quest for theological purity (after all, the Muslims see the mainstream-Christian, trinitarian God as a perversion of the truth and might not want to conflate the two concepts--perhaps this has changed for those with ecumenical goals, yet stayed the same for others, such as those in Russia).

Edited August 8, 2010 by SanctitasDeo
had a thought

[Moksha]

The names of the other twelve of the fixed stars are:

1. Kolob,

2. Limdi,

3. Zip,

4. Vusel,

5. Venisti,

6. Waine,

7. Wayoh=ox=oan,

8. Oansli,

9. Shible,

10. Shineflis,

11. Flis,

12. Os.

Wonder if the inhabitants of Os are ever tempted to say, "Oh, Zip!"?

Didn't the song Walk Like an Egyptian contain the line 'Way-oh-ox-oan'?

[Sean1427]

Good point, SanctitasDeo, regarding the Muslim view of the Christian Trinity. While Muslims consider Christians as People of the Book (which does not mean the Qur'an, by the way) and therefore one of the three great monotheistic/Abrahamic faiths, they do consider the concept of the Trinity as a form of polytheism, a view which is actually shared by religious Jews. Of course, Christians will say it isn't.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Sean1427

[PrinceofLight2000]

Muslims are an Abrahamic religion, just like us. The Koran starts out just like the Bible, with Adam/Eve, the garden, the tree etc. etc. all the way up to the twins - Esau/Jacob. The Muslims claim that Esau was given the brithright, and the Koran follows Esau's fam, while the Bible follows Jacob.

So, whoever get Israel wins - because that's who was really given the birthright

I never knew that little tidbit, thanks a bunch.

[UrbanFool]

Wonder if the inhabitants of Os are ever tempted to say, "Oh, Zip!"?

Didn't the song Walk Like an Egyptian contain the line 'Way-oh-ox-oan'?

I think not. It was Way-oh, way-oh.

[Moksha]

I think not. It was Way-oh, way-oh.

Well Shible and Shineflis me timbers, Matey!

Wonder how they regard Allah on Os and Zip?

[Traveler]

Good point, SanctitasDeo, regarding the Muslim view of the Christian Trinity. While Muslims consider Christians as People of the Book (which does not mean the Qur'an, by the way) and therefore one of the three great monotheistic/Abrahamic faiths, they do consider the concept of the Trinity as a form of polytheism, a view which is actually shared by religious Jews. Of course, Christians will say it isn't.

In essence, my friend you have opened a can of worms with this thread. The work G-d as used in English has Latin and Greek roots. From the ancient scriptures we can see that in English we take most of our clues from the Greek versions of the ancient scriptures rather than the Jewish versions. But there are several terms that have been lost in the translation. One of great interest to me is “Cherub”. Scholars have no good English translation for this term and since Paul used the Greek term in his writing the Greek term is given with no translation or explanation. Most students of the Bible (including LDS) believe the term “Cherub” to reference a classification of angel despite the fact that there is no scripture to indicate that understanding.

In addition there are many terms that have the title of G-d imbedded inside but not recognized in English translations. Some examples are “Hosanna” and “Amen”. There is one Christian faith that is very concerned about the terms used as the name of G-d but then they turn around and follow the standard scholarly understanding not relying on revelation (perhaps because they do not have access to current revelation). Anyway – I see no concern if a translation uses Allah or G-d. It is most likely that neither Allah nor G-d is the correct terminology used anciently but rather a term more unique to our time.

I would not be surprised that when Christ (Messiah) returns that he will give us a name we are currently unfamiliar with – which I find most interesting because many say they are Christians to indicate they are taking upon them the name of the Messiah – but again Christ is a Greek term. What then is the real true name of G-d? Does it matter? Should we be concerned with his real name?

The Traveler

[SanctitasDeo]

That was a really interesting post and an interesting idea: what would the Messiah have us call him? Will we continue to use the (almost jury-rigged, dragged-through-three-languages) names that have been handed down and have become a part of our culture? Or will he give us something that somehow uses who we are to draw us closer to him.

Oh, and that makes me laugh--some people make a big deal about calling God Allah here in the U.S. because it is the Muslim God--all the terms are pulled from other languages and other cultures with different religious values and doctrines.

[UrbanFool]

Well Shible and Shineflis me timbers, Matey!

Wonder how they regard Allah on Os and Zip?

I don't know, I'm just embarrassed that I remember the words to that song!