Does Heavenly Father know what we are going to do before we do it?

[ColoradoGuy]

Not without my Delorean and the Flux Capcitor! Now if I can just get up to 88 miles per hour.

[jayanna]

lol, good luck with a lightning strike!

Edited August 19, 2010 by jayanna
oops!

[ryanh]

So if I set my sights at the Celestial kingdom and always try to improve myself (along with my choices) with that goal in mind I can achieve it someday......right?

Not only that, but you couldn't get to the CK without going though that very process! We have to learn how to become like the Savior (and thereby the Father) (be ye therefore even as I). That isn't simply given to us once we die. We need to go through this life process to learn to think as God thinks. We need to practice the process, not simply hear about it. And that is why God being omniscient and knowing the future does not change anything. We still have to pass through all the things graciously allotted to us (even what we feel is "bad").

[Hemidakota]

om·nis·cient

–adjective

1. having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

I would say yes.

Then you have your answer.

[Hemidakota]

okay, so this means you will drive safely?

lol

Who watch over you? Is it always GOD or an ministering spirit (angel so would call them)?

[jayanna]

Well, no matter who is Watching, it is a good idea to drive safely. Even Jesus wouldn't jump off the top of the temple just to see if angels would catch him! :)

Lets see if He's watching now (sharp left) Lets see if He's watching now (sharp right) He might just watch you run into a tree! lol

[Hemidakota]

The reason why I stated this, GOD is omnipresent but most of the time, we are in the hands of others who are HIS servants and may not be aware of it.

[Javajot]

"Does Heavenly Father know what we are going to do before we do it? "

Yes he does.

2 Ne. 9: 20

20 O how great the holiness of our God! For he knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it.

If he didn't know what we were going to do he wouldn't know all things would he? And that would make this scripture a lie. That would make our Father in Heaven a liar.

[jayanna]

And sometimes WE are the hands and often aren't aware of it. :)

[Javajot]

To the OP. I found the reference you are looking for straight from the mouth of Elder James E. Talmage and quoted in the following article from the Liahona: (Your wife was right and you owe her dinner)

“The Fullness of the Gospel: Agency,” Liahona, Mar 2006, 8–9

A continuing series examining basic beliefs of the restored gospel, doctrines unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

A basic tenet of Christianity is that God has given His children free will, the ability and privilege to choose. But the concept of agency, taught in the Book of Mormon and by latter-day prophets and apostles in concert with other gospel truths, is a doctrine rich in power and eternal in its implications.

An Eternal Principle

Agency is essential to Heavenly Father’s plan for His children, for without it we cannot become as He is. Agency is an eternal attribute of all intelligent beings. It did not begin with mortal birth. We possessed agency in our premortal existence. As the Lord revealed:

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

“All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

“Behold, here is the agency of man” (D&C 93:29–31).

We do not believe in a deterministic God—that is, one who determines in advance the eventual fate of His children. Rather, we believe in a God who has perfect foreknowledge of the choices His children will make. He may use this foreknowledge to guide us or even to warn us, but He does not use it to preempt our agency. He allows us to become what we truly desire to become. As Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote: “[God] knows what each will do under given conditions, and sees the end from the beginning. His foreknowledge is based on intelligence and reason. He foresees the future as a state which naturally and surely will be; not as one which must be because He has arbitrarily willed that it shall be.” 1

Most Christian churches believe God created His children ex nihilo—out of nothing. If this were true, then God might be held accountable for any evil we would do because He created us with flaws and weaknesses. But we know our Heavenly Father did not create us out of nothing, and He is not responsible for our weaknesses or sins. He merely places us, His spirit children, in spheres where we can learn and grow by exercising our agency, if we employ it correctly.

Conditions Required for Agency

Elder Bruce R. McConkie (1915–85) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles taught that agency requires four conditions:

1. Laws ordained by an omnipotent power must exist, laws we can either obey or disobey.

2. There must be opposites—good and evil, right and wrong.

3. We must have knowledge of good and evil; we must know the difference between the opposites.

4. We must possess an unfettered power of choice. 2

We must also be accountable for our choices if we are to enjoy agency fully. The laws that exist must bring consequences—and not just the natural consequences resulting from our actions, such as losing people’s respect if we lie and cheat. The laws must also bring blessings from God if we obey them and punishments if we do not.

Satan’s Attack on Agency

Of the premortal existence, the Lord says, “Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man” (Moses 4:3). For his rebellion Lucifer was cast out of heaven, but here on earth he continues to undermine our agency. He does this in many ways, two of which are:

Disobedience. “Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light. … And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men” (D&C 93:31, 39). Disobedience damages our agency in two ways. First, when we lose light and truth, we become blind to many opportunities to do good; and second, some forms of disobedience are addictive—we become entrapped in behaviors that are extremely difficult to forsake. We may even hurt others and damage their agency.

No accountability. Satan whispers in our ears, telling us, “Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; … and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God” (2 Ne. 28:8). Some mistakenly believe that once we have “confessed Christ” and have been “saved by grace,” it doesn’t matter what we do—we are saved. This doctrine is a subtle manifestation of Satan’s ongoing deception that we are not accountable for our sins and that there are no consequences for them.

Blessings of Agency

When we use our agency to choose righteousness, God not only blesses us, but our agency is strengthened and enhanced. When our Heavenly Father sees that He can trust us to make correct decisions, He does as any loving parent would do: He blesses us with new opportunities and more responsibility. Thus, if we use our agency wisely, the possibilities for doing good and blessing others become infinite. Obedience always leads to greater agency and increasing possibilities. It is sin that shrinks our options

[bytor2112]

I think Heavenly Father knows us all very well and knows what we are likely to do in a given circumstance, but, I don't think HE knows for certain what we will ultimately choose.

[Javajot]

I think Heavenly Father knows us all very well and knows what we are likely to do in a given circumstance, but, I don't think HE knows for certain what we will ultimately choose.

Read the first sentence in red that I posted above.

[Vanhin]

Yeppers.

We do not believe in a deterministic God—that is, one who determines in advance the eventual fate of His children. Rather, we believe in a God who has perfect foreknowledge of the choices His children will make. He may use this foreknowledge to guide us or even to warn us, but He does not use it to preempt our agency. He allows us to become what we truly desire to become. As Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote: “[God] knows what each will do under given conditions, and sees the end from the beginning. His foreknowledge is based on intelligence and reason. He foresees the future as a state which naturally and surely will be; not as one which must be because He has arbitrarily willed that it shall be.” 1

Vanhin

[Guest]

I think Heavenly Father knows us all very well and knows what we are likely to do in a given circumstance, but, I don't think HE knows for certain what we will ultimately choose.

I'm pretty sure He does.

I look at it this way:

Say you are a 2-dimensional being. You can see what's infront of you and what's behind you and you can go forward or backward or sideways. But, you can't see over the wall infront of you because you can't move yourself upward or downward.

Say a 3-dimensional being watches you. You are pondering whether you should open the door on that wall and walk through. Well, you can't see beyond the wall, so you don't know what's lying in wait on the other side. Well, the 3-dimensional being can see you from above. So, he can see that on the other side of that wall is a cliff so that when you open the door, you'll fall right into the cliff.

So the 3-dimensional being knows with absolute certainty that you are going to fall off that cliff if you open that door which would be quite a magical skill for the 2-D guy.

Well, imagine there is a 4-D being watching over us. Not only can he move forward, backward, sideways, upward or downward, he can also move to the end of time and back to yesterday. So, although we might not know what our choices are gonna be, the 4-D guy knows exactly what choices we are going to make because he can see all throughout the tomorrows.

But, that doesn't mean that our choices are limited. It means - yeah, we make that choice and it leads us somewhere.

God is probably like infinity-D or something. Or maybe just 100-D if He is still eternally progressing. He's probably headed towards 101-D or something. Anyway, so yeah, He knows the end-game of our mortality. He knows where we are headed.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I'm pretty sure He does.

I look at it this way:

Say you are a 2-dimensional being. You can see what's infront of you and what's behind you and you can go forward or backward or sideways. But, you can't see over the wall infront of you because you can't move yourself upward or downward.

Say a 3-dimensional being watches you. You are pondering whether you should open the door on that wall and walk through. Well, you can't see beyond the wall, so you don't know what's lying in wait on the other side. Well, the 3-dimensional being can see you from above. So, he can see that on the other side of that wall is a cliff so that when you open the door, you'll fall right into the cliff.

So the 3-dimensional being knows with absolute certainty that you are going to fall off that cliff if you open that door which would be quite a magical skill for the 2-D guy.

Well, imagine there is a 4-D being watching over us. Not only can he move forward, backward, sideways, upward or downward, he can also move to the end of time and back to yesterday. So, although we might not know what our choices are gonna be, the 4-D guy knows exactly what choices we are going to make because he can see all throughout the tomorrows.

But, that doesn't mean that our choices are limited. It means - yeah, we make that choice and it leads us somewhere.

God is probably like infinity-D or something. Or maybe just 100-D if He is still eternally progressing. He's probably headed towards 101-D or something. Anyway, so yeah, He knows the end-game of our mortality. He knows where we are headed.

If God could move back and forth in time like you suggest then there is no need for foreknowledge as Elder Talmage claims. God would simply be an observer, very little knowledge is required for that.

[Faded]

This is not an easy question in my mind. My wife is of the opinion that he does, but I'm not so sure. I do believe that Heavenly Father knows every outcome of decisions made and the chain of events that follow. But saying that he knows the choices I'm going to make before I make them seems counter to the his plan in the first place. He knows in any given situation the choices available to me and how each would play out, but does he really know the choice I'm going to make? What is the purpose of coming to this earth if he already knows the choices I'm going to make?

For instance when I'm driving home today, I can take one of 4 or 5 different routes home. I haven't made up my mind which one I'm going to take. As I'm driving I could change my mind at any point and take a different route.

I know this is deep, but if anyone has any council from any talks they've read or heard I would appreciate info on this topic.

Thoughts anyone?

It's a bit of a "thin ice" kind of question because this is exactly where Calvinism ran headlong into the false doctrine of Predestination. Calvin concluded that since God could see the end to the beginning at all times, that God knew exactly what all of us were going to do -- and therefore (and here's his mistake) those that are saved are already Pre-Determined to be saved since God already knows who they are -- and that God made the choice who was saved and who was damned. Therefore, in Calvin's view, you were either born to be saved or you were born to be damned and there wasn't anything you could do about it.

The reality is -- I believe -- one of two things. Either God has seen exactly how we end up making use of our free-agency, or God has seen and knows every possible outcome because he has seen all possible futures. The second one can boggle the mind a bit, but it should be easily done for an infinite being with infinite intelligence. The one thing we can know for certain: God let's his children exercise their free-agency and does not interfere. Our choices are our own, and ultimately we are the ones determining what becomes of us in this world and in the next.

[bytor2112]

God is probably like infinity-D or something. Or maybe just 100-D if He is still eternally progressing. He's probably headed towards 101-D or something. Anyway, so yeah, He knows the end-game of our mortality. He knows where we are headed.

Glad you put an IF......Bruce McConkie would consider that a great heresy. I don't think the Lord knows for certain if we are going to make it...I think he knows the potential we each have...but our Eternal Destinies haven't been determined.

Heresy one: There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths.

This is false-utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it. It grows out of a wholly twisted and incorrect view of the King Follett Sermon and of what is meant by eternal progression.

God progresses in the sense that his kingdoms increase and his dominions multiply-not in the sense that he learn new truths and discovers new laws. God is not a student. He is not a laboratory technician. He is not postulating new theories on the basis of past experiences. He has indeed graduated to that state of exaltation that consists of knowing all things and having all power.

He has indeed graduated to that state of exaltation that consists of knowing all things and having all power. - Elder Bruce R McConkie

Edited August 19, 2010 by bytor2112

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Interesting to me that our doctrine becomes more like the mainstream as time passes.

Sixty years ago, when I was a kid, God was a distinct person and had his limitations the same as any other person. Now He's becoming the same bundle of attributes as the more literate priests of the Roman state religion picked up from the Greek philosophers before 380.

[Guest]

If God could move back and forth in time like you suggest then there is no need for foreknowledge as Elder Talmage claims. God would simply be an observer, very little knowledge is required for that.

I said a guy who can go back-and-forth in time is probably like a 4-D... God is like infinite-D. What's the 5th dimension, 6th, 7th, 8th? You'll have to ask God. He's the only one I know who knows. Oh, Jesus and the Holy Ghost probably know as much as well.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

I said a guy who can go back-and-forth in time is probably like a 4-D... God is like infinite-D. What's the 5th dimension, 6th, 7th, 8th? You'll have to ask God. He's the only one I know who knows. Oh, Jesus and the Holy Ghost probably know as much as well.

Forgot the other stream: Mormonism according to George Lucas.

[UrbanFool]

Well why in the world does he keep letting my husband and I (separately and collectively) make bad decision after the next? I'm really getting worn out here, and am wondering at the point of living only to spend my life doing disaster control for the last bad decision we made?

[Hemidakota]

I think Heavenly Father knows us all very well and knows what we are likely to do in a given circumstance, but, I don't think HE knows for certain what we will ultimately choose.

Then, GOD cannot be all knowing. Right?

[Moksha]

Then, GOD cannot be all knowing. Right?

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[Hemidakota]

Actually, I thought it was the WAR OF THE WORLDS.

[Faded]

I said a guy who can go back-and-forth in time is probably like a 4-D... God is like infinite-D. What's the 5th dimension, 6th, 7th, 8th? You'll have to ask God. He's the only one I know who knows. Oh, Jesus and the Holy Ghost probably know as much as well.

LOL, we can mathematically prove the existence/possibility of 18 dimensions. Comprehending even the 5th dimension is impossible for us of course. You don't need an "Infinite D" to even exist. 18 is plenty.