Please tell me your thoughts...

[dmhw]

I have been married for 17 years and we have 4 children between 8-16 yrs old. My marriage has been my biggest trial of my life. My husband claims to love me with all his heart but he has hurt me deeply. I know now that I did not love my husband when we got married. I basically was in need of beingd so much that I logically decided that I "should" love this person and that noone else would love me the way he does. So we married. Right before we did I almost changed my mind. I had doubts and oh how I wish I had listened to them! Sex has been difficult from day 1. He wanted it badly and all the time, I didn't want it at all and it was emotionally painful for me. Why wouldn't it be? I didn't love him! I have forced myself to have sex with him for the last 17 years though not near as much as he would have liked. I have felt extreme guilt for not loving him, for not being what he needs/wants for a very long time.

Pornography has been a problem of his since he was a teenager, and continued throughout our marriage. I'd find it, he would lie, then admit, apologize, do it again... you know the drill. He has done some horrible things to me. He took pictures/recorded me on 4 or more ocassions under the sheets without my permission. He would take pictures of me while I was in the shower, through the doorhole (the knob was missing for a while), from outside the window. The worst of it for me, is that one night when I had taken some Xanax (to see what effect it would have on my mood, ability to relax and be happy (NOT Sexually!) he did things to me that I would never have allowed had I not been "under the influence". He has cheated on me with 4-5 women. Oral sex with 3 of them.

I have not been perfect, I myself have been unfaithful to him with 4 men, however the extent of what we did was MUCH MUCH less... but it was in no doubt sexual. Trust me, it was much less. He is now totally repentant and sorry and doing everything he can to be perfect father/husband. He is making me feel horrible about not wanting to do this anymore!

I want to leave, I want to give myself the opportunity to be happy, to be able to love someone who will love me and not hurt me. I CANNOT have sex with him again! It disgusts me. I have cried too many times over the last 17 years trying to, I have to disconnect from the whole thing, look away... anything to not be there. I will not ever have sex with someone that I am not completely in love with and willing to give myself to.

While I think there is plenty of "justification" to leave, I can't feel good about it! Logically, I think things will be fine and my kids will be fine, and I will be happy eventually, but how can anyone say that Heavenly Father would ever be ok with me breaking up the sealing of my family?! I feel so selfish! Does Heavenly Father really want me to be miserable forever?!? I cannot be happy with this man?

How many people, knowing the situation of what I have had to put up with would seriously recommend that I stay and endure these feelings any longer... even if he never does it again?! Do I have to be miserable so my children can simply have an intact family? I want to be happy.

[Gwen]

how can anyone say that Heavenly Father would ever be ok with me breaking up the sealing of my family?!

to be blunt...... by the sounds of it the two of you have already done a good job of breaking up the sealing of your family. do you really think the way you are treating each other will earn you any reward in the hereafter?

[Wingnut]

to be blunt...... by the sounds of it the two of you have already done a good job of breaking up the sealing of your family. do you really think the way you are treating each other will earn you any reward in the hereafter?

I was going to be at least as blunt. Neither husband nor wife in this marriage have kept the covenants they made at their sealing. They can repent, but based on history, it doesn't sound like either one is very repentant.

[Tarnished]

I am sorry but I have to be rather blunt about this. You entered your marriage expecting one thing and not really being completely truthful about your feelings. Now you are in your marriage and you feel like you have been cheated, but you were the one who entered into it in the first place.

There are many marriages out there that are arranged or where the couple has not known or has known each other for a very short time and many of those marriages work out. The couple ends up falling in love with each other. From what I am reading from your post it sounds like you never gave that a chance. It sounds like you got into your marriage decided that you didn’t love your husband and stuck to that decision throughout 17 long years. Have you tried to fall in love with him? Have you given that an option?

It sounds like both you and your husband have had problems in your marriage, it sounds like both of you could use to change the way you interact in your marriage. But change requires desire. Currently your focus is entirely on yourself. Your last paragraph is filled with “I want” statements. You want happiness, you want love, you want some perfect dream you have come up with. But I have to ask if you have looked for what you want in your marriage.

You mentioned that he has repented for what he did, did you repent for what you did? Does he know about what you did? Has he forgiven you? Have you forgiven him? It sounds like you are struggling with yourself and that usually means that you know you should do one thing but you want to do another. Ask yourself why this is. Usually there is a good reason.

Heavenly Father does not want you to be miserable, but it sounds like you have decided that your situation can never go from miserable to wonderful. I would bet you that if both you and your husband tried you could find a way to make a wonderful marriage out of a miserable one. But it would require a lot of effort, and it would require a desire to change. Do you have that desire?

Finally some further questions. Do you really think that divorce would make you happy? Do you think that splitting up your family would make you happy? What if you did find another man but he wasn’t any better than your current husband? What if you never find what you think you want?

In the end it is really your choice, there is a way to find happiness in your marriage, but you will really have to work for it. There is also probably a way to find happiness outside your marriage, but you will have to destroy your family for it. Either way YOU will have to deal with the consequences, not anyone who posts a response to your post. You need to sit down with yourself and with Heavenly Father and really think hard and long and pray hard and long about what to do. What you are talking about doing is a HUGE change for you and your family and you need to consider all the repercussions involved.

[Wingnut]

In addition to what Tarnished said, the OP focuses a lot on sex. It is a myth that sex = love and love = sex. Sex and love should go together, but they are not the same thing.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Wingnut

[Guest]

Okay, I'll be blunt.

Stop being selfish. Go take care of your children. You're like a little kid who decided to steal the cookie from the cookie jar and expect to be rewarded with a cookie for it!

You are not going on the trial of your life. You are going on the CONSEQUENCE of your idiot choices for the past 17 years!

Edited September 21, 2010 by anatess

[ryanh]

Dear sister; I’m sorry you have had it so rough for the last 17 years (and probably well before that too, huh?), and that in reaching out here, you received virtual slaps in the face rather than loving help and direction as should have come from those that have covenanted to follow the Savior’s example.

If you would like to talk offline rather than expose more of yourself in front of those that cannot abide to hear of other’s difficulties and needs without expressing condemnation, feel free to send me a PM, or click on my username and send me an email.

Do you have to remain miserable? No. Absolutely not. Does happiness only reside in calling it quits on your marriage? I don’t believe that is the only route to happiness (nor do I think that calling it quits will inherently lead to happiness – you will still be you, and still have the same difficulties.)

No one but our Father in Heaven can give you the guidance you need in regards to your decision to stay or go. What you really need is to ensure you are worthy to feel promptings, and receive personalized direction in regards to your specific situation. Even given you and your husband’s improprieties and sins, no one here is qualified to recommend you stay or leave. Such life decisions are not to be made by popular opinion, but by revelation.

It is no wonder that you don’t want to be intimate with you husband with as much abuse as has happened. Never knowing when the next “violation” might come would make it very hard I’m sure. It is saddening that both of you have looked so frequently to lust as a source of self-soothing. There are better ways.

Please expound on your statement: “He is making me feel horrible about not wanting to do this anymore!” Is he actually verbally berating you? Or do you mean to say that YOU are making yourself feel miserable because he is doing all he can do to make things right, but you are no longer willing?

One of the deep secrets of life that escapes so many that search so hard for it is that happiness comes from within oneself. The greatest philosophers of the centuries have all concluded that happiness originates within oneself – not from external conditions or circumstances. And the gospel of Jesus Christ is the greatest way to find the stability and focus to emanate happiness from within, and not attempt to rely on relationships or other temporal conditions or things. You and your husband have both sought happiness in the arms of others. Did it work? Are you ready to try something different this time?

So, I would tell you that whether or not you can be happy and remain in the relationship is up to you. In fact, even if you terminate the marriage, finding happiness still will remain with you. Yes, I realize that a huge source of hurt would be removed from your life if you were to separate from your husband, but that won’t necessarily bring happiness. You can heal from all of this, and if you two are truly committed, you can have a happy relationship. But, it depends on you to a large degree.

What do you want? Do you want to be happy? Are you willing to focus on yourself and change yourself to achieve it? It won’t come from changing just your circumstances. You must focus on changing yourself.

[Gwen]

read this article this morning and thought about this thread. the argument to stay seems to be about the "damage" that's done from "ripping apart" your family. so as you weigh the pro's and con's of all the various choices keep in mind the damage that's done with the life you are currently giving them.

The Impact of Adult Infidelity on Children : TwoOfUs.org

[LadyZephyr]

Please seek counsel from you Bishop.

God loves you and wants you to be happy.

[Gwen]

yes ppl have been harsh, sometimes we need harsh to wake us up.

and yes god loves her and wants her to be happy. but we have to keep his commandments to have that. she clearly hasn't done that. forget what the husband has done she has broken her covenant and then she says "but he's worse" as though that excuses it. of course she is unhappy.

quite blaming others and face your choices (let him face his), talk to the bishop and get your life right. then you can be happy. if that's with or without your husband i don't know. but as you make the decision be honest about what you do to your kids with either decision. sometimes divorce isn't the worst answer. time to start being honest with yourself and get your life right with god.

[ryanh]

yes ppl have been harsh, sometimes we need harsh to wake us up.

Oh how quickly we are all (me included) prone to forget that reproving with sharpness is to be done when moved upon by the Spirit and should be followed thereafter with greater love - love sufficient to suture and soothe the wound created in an attempt to remove the offending abscess.

[W]e need to be civil in our discourse and respectful in our interactions. This is especially true when we disagree. The Savior taught us to love even our enemies. The vast majority of our members heed this counsel. Yet there are some who feel that venting their personal anger or deeply held opinions is more important than conducting themselves as Jesus Christ lived and taught. I invite each one of us individually to recognize that how we disagree is a real measure of who we are and whether we truly follow the Savior. It is appropriate to disagree, but it is not appropriate to be disagreeable. [bold emphasis mine]

Elder Quentin L. Cook Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles - We Follow Jesus Christ - General Conference, May, 2010

[GaySaint]

I was listening to Dr. Laura yesterday (shock!) and a woman called in with a similar problem. I actually agreed with Dr. Laura’s advice, which gave the woman five options:

1. View sex like you view cleaning the toilet: something that isn’t fun but has to be done (although she admitted that while sex might start out like a chore, it usually would end up being entertaining for both parties)

2. Get your husband a subscription to porn and introduce him to his hand

3. Find him a girlfriend on the side

4. Set up a budget for hiring a girl on the weekends

5. Let him go, and move on yourself

Since 2, 3, and 4 obviously go against Christian principles, I only see 1 and 5 as an option for you.

[Guest mirancs8]

Dear dmhw, I am so sorry for what you have and are going through in your marriage. I can in a great way understand the pain as I too went through some difficulties (mainly porno, prostitutes, and threats to my life and his own).

With that said I can relate to that feeling you described when you said "While I think there is plenty of "justification" to leave, I can't feel good about it! Logically, I think things will be fine and my kids will be fine, and I will be happy eventually, but how can anyone say that Heavenly Father would ever be ok with me breaking up the sealing of my family?! I feel so selfish! Does Heavenly Father really want me to be miserable forever?!? I cannot be happy with this man?"

I had that running through my mind for several years before I divorced him. It was torture being married to him... it was very toxic. It's hard to explain to people that feeling which you described when you know there's plenty of justification yet you can't feel good about it. In some ways when we are in relationship such as this at no fault of our own we are enabling the behavior. We over extend ourselves to please our spouse and in doing that with allow our own needs to be pushed to the side rarely if ever revisited.

I can't relate to the part of you having relations outside of your marriage but I can relate to what you have went through with him in regards to his behavior. There is no excuse for him doing the things that he did without your consent. It's heart breaking to hear what you went through. If you ever need someone to talk to always know you can IM me. I understand the pain and confusion you are feeling in your life.

Keep the Lord close to your heart. You need HIM especially now.

[MorningStar]

Did some of you miss the part where she said her husband took pictures/video of her in bed and in the shower without her consent? He clearly violated her. I believe in forgiveness, but I also believe in boundaries to protect oneself. What man who respects his wife would do that to her?

dmhw, I do wonder if it's true when people say they never really loved their spouse. I think years of bad experiences can color our perceptions and memories and people sometimes don't want to believe they could be fooled by someone who would engage in such vile behavior. I honestly wonder if his true colors showed on your wedding night (men with pornography addictions can be rather emotionally disconnected during intimacy and can't really hide that fact) and that is what repulsed you so badly. I was in a couple bad relationships and when I discovered what these men were really like, I was embarrassed that I ever had any feelings for them. It was easier to tell myself that I never really had those feelings, but it's true that I did - for who I thought they were. Once they started mistreating me, it was easy to call it quits and I cringe to think what my life would be like if I had married the one who wanted to marry me.

I'm not going to tell you to divorce him, but to pray about it and talk to your bishop. Go to the temple if you can. If it were me and my husband did those things - I would take legal action. Just because he is married to you doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants to you. With the Internet, you never know what he'll decide to do with those photos and videos. I have heard of men posting pictures of their wives online without their knowledge.

You can't avoid divorce hurting your kids, but you have to weigh the pros and cons. I think it was Elder Oaks who said that divorce is usually worse than the marriage, but when it's not worse, those are usually pretty good grounds.

If you haven't repented of your unfaithfulness, you need to do so. That will help you make the right decisions. You need to have the Spirit with you. As horrible as he has been to you, it doesn't excuse breaking the law of chastity yourself. You make that covenant with God.

No, Heavenly Father doesn't want you to be in a miserable marriage. Is it possible to make a happy marriage with your husband? I don't know. Sounds like he needs major therapy. I think both of you would benefit from counseling and that you need to work on yourself before you make another major decision (as you did in marrying him). These men you have been with - how are they any better than your husband when they willingly got involved with a married woman? How can you be your best and prepare for someone else if that's what the Lord's will is for you? You can't find happiness in breaking the commandments.

[shebish]

Dear DMHW,

I have been where you are now. I had a husband that was abusive with me and performed sexual acts that I did not want to participate in. I tried to get help for my husband for over 16 years but he denied that he had a problem. We were married for 19 years. Things kept getting worse and I like you was on medication to help me to deal with the problems I had. Then one day he started to be physically abusive with me and I called the police. He was arrested and taken to jail. It was the most difficult and heart and soul wrenching thing for me to make the decision to divorce him at the time. At times I didn't know if I could make it. Luckily I had people to help me and were there to give me support. Now I have remarried to a wonderful man and have discovered just how bad my life had been. I am off of all of my medications. I have been going to see a counselor to help me deal with the abuse. In counseling I have learned that half of the problem I had was his problem in how he had treated me and the other half was my problem because I had not taken care of myself and I had allowed him to treat me like that for so long. Please please take care of yourself and do not allow him to do this to you anymore. You can't change him. I have learned that the Lord does not want us to be miserable. I know that you are miserable. This is of Satan. Satan is being allowed into your home and relaionship. My advice to you is to get out. You deserve to feel love and to be loved. I know that it is hard to do because it was the hardest decision I had to make in my life and it hurt and ripped into the very heart and core of my being. I have been there. I understand where you are. If you ever need to talk drop me a line.

[Guest shiz]

It saddens me, how you started the post...that you had been hurt, etc. It's time you stopped comparing who is worse...it is time you stopped justifying your behaviors. (we all do, and you have a way out now)

The worst thing we can do is adopt the victim mentality. A victim never changes because he/she is the "good guy". They are willing to put up with wrongs and hurts because it makes them feel justified that the OTHER needs to change more than they do, and they can concentrate on the other's sins while their own get ignored for the most part. A victim can always justify his behaviors, and always excuses himself for the hurts he causes others, while demonizing the "bad guy". In short, a victim can NEVER accept the Savior totally because they feel in part that they do not need Him. Sure they understand Him, because they have been through pains like him, (so they think)

Sad part is, we all play the part of victim at times, but it is something we can and should move away from quickly.

[Faded]

Oh how quickly we are all (me included) prone to forget that reproving with sharpness is to be done when moved upon by the Spirit and should be followed thereafter with greater love - love sufficient to suture and soothe the wound created in an attempt to remove the offending abscess.

Original Poster's last login was 9/22/2010 -- so right after getting absolutely blasted by some initial responses. I'm not going to say that the advice wasn't valid. It was. But anyone who can add 2+2 can easily guess how well those responses were received.

I think we've all been guilty of being overly sharp and critical a little too quickly. I'm guilty of it certainly. But it certainly doesn't help this particular poster to be blasted and then they never log in again to see any further responses. We could all use to temper our advice with a lot more compassion.

[jayanna]

I am shocked. shocked.

When a man takes advantage of you being under the influence of a drug, and does things to you without your consent, has sex with you without permission, it is rape.

Being married does not give consent. Being unfaithful does not mean she deserved it. I am a very considerate and forgiving person, but I don't think I would even consider to stay married to someone who raped me. That man should be behind bars, so he can't do it again.

I hope hope hope she went to her bishop.