Any advice would be good..

[MorningStar]

Wow. It's at the point that there's no way you could tell if he's telling the truth anymore. I would take drastic action and go for a legal separation to let him know I'm not going to be his doormat and I mean it.

Also, I read His Needs, Her Needs years ago when a friend let me borrow it. Looking back, it just sounds like a manual on how to be co-dependent, as if you are somehow responsible for his behavior. It also made a guy's needs sound quite selfish. Whatever problems you bring into a marriage, it isn't your spouse's job to fix you. I guarantee your husband had problems before he married you. Giving him all of his "needs" isn't going to fix him. He needs therapy. Lying is so damaging.

I was so repulsed by that book, I was tempted not to give it back to my friend because I felt like she was being taught to take so much mistreatment from her husband. She was a good wife and he maxed out their credit card at a strip joint. Her brother recognized his truck parked in front of the place as he drove by on that main street. Ugh. No amount of tending to his "needs" was going to prevent that one. He is an addict. You wouldn't see a book on how to cater to an alcoholic's needs. For some reason people still feel it's OK to make wives responsible for the way their husbands act out. If they cheat or look at porn, it's assumed that they wives aren't giving their husbands enough sex. It's just not true.

Please take serious action. It will be hard for your children, but they will start to catch on too that Daddy lies to Mommy and that's a pretty poor example for them. So sorry you're going through this.

[ryanh]

Alicia - you have to respond to the email the system sent you when you first registered so that your account is active? Then you can send PM's.

To put it in a nutshell - he's the kind of guy that will act first, think later, speak first, then think (or regret) later. He's even said to me that he will say things, nasty things, just to upset me, that he KNOWS is nasty and will hurt me - and even at the time he will think to himself 'why the heck am I doing this'... he said that he doesn't know how to stop that - even though he is saying things that are not true. Just an example, after I found out about this girl and it all came out in the open and she had forwarded all his emails etc, he got REALLY angry. He said to me: "I will never forgive you for this, she's a really nice girl and you completely ruined it for me". That stunned me to my core and is when I wondered where I had gone wrong.... I was so shocked. HE WAS MARRIED!! Anyway, he did say to me not too long ago that when he said that, he was just in a bad space, knew it would hurt me.... but couldn't stop himself.

Have you two ever explored the possibility that he has ADHD? What you have written well describes some of the issues that those with ADHD can struggle with. I just read a few passages in ADD and Romance this morning that dealt with the impulsive 'foot in mouth' moments like you describe. Obviously, there could be many other things going on, but it may be worth your time to consider if a disability is underlying the issues you are facing.

[Tarnished]

Ok, let me give you my 2 cents, from one who has been there. And when I say that, I mean I have been on his side of the fence, not yours. A good way of getting a better idea of what happened in my marriage would be to read the entire thread by my husband http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/17111-blindsided-dumbstruck.html It was his first thread on these boards and it was on needing advice about finding out that his wife had an affair.

In our situation I wanted to change, I wanted to repent and I wanted to make things better between my husband and I. I went to the bishop and confessed, I agreed to make certain changes, I agreed to have no further contact with the other man, I agreed to really make an effort to change. This is a place your husband needs to be at if he is to start along the road to repentance. He needs to be willing to give up his tendencies to look lustfully after other women.

I say read the thread because in it my husband lays out the requirements he asked of me for our marriage to continue. I think this is important because when something like an affair happens it means that trust has been broken. And for the marriage to continue that trust has to be regained, and that is not an easy thing. It requires extreme work to regain trust lost.

In my opinion, as someone who has been on the sinner's side of the fence, he really needs to prove to you that he is willing to change and willing to work on fixing the marriage with you. If he is not willing to do that then you may want to look at separation or possibly divorce. I say this because if he is not willing to give up the sin then he will continue to put you through the pain of his unfaithfulness, and no one deserves that.

If you would like to private message me I would be happy to talk more with you on this matter.

[alecia]

Please take serious action. It will be hard for your children, but they will start to catch on too that Daddy lies to Mommy and that's a pretty poor example for them. So sorry you're going through this.

Thank you for your words, I appreciate it and I think that you are probably right. It's been really hard times and I have particularly found that while he still remains in this home, I can't forget about everything. I even find I bring the subject up (everything that's happened) even though I want to stop talking about it - let alone thinking about it!

In my eyes, I think he doesn't realise that I am seriously over this. For example, the other day he just said to me "oh we both know that I'm going to stay when I move, you don't want to lose me". I mean, after all he has said and done... he still thinks I want him?!!! That's insane!

The other thing is that he will always bring this other girl's name up and make light of something about what happened e.g how I found out, or how she was forwarding me his texts while he was texting her and me at the same time... and he'll actually think it's funny. He honestly doesn't seem to realise the hurt he has put on me.

So yes, today I have said to him the moment i'm out of here, and in the new place, he is going to have to find somewhere to stay and that I want a legal separation. He just said "one thing at a time ok".

I don't think i'm going to be able to 'move on' myself until he has moved out. I think I need that space.

Thank you for sharing your opinion on that book, I appreciate it :)

[alecia]

Have you two ever explored the possibility that he has ADHD? What you have written well describes some of the issues that those with ADHD can struggle with. I just read a few passages in ADD and Romance this morning that dealt with the impulsive 'foot in mouth' moments like you describe. Obviously, there could be many other things going on, but it may be worth your time to consider if a disability is underlying the issues you are facing.

Thank you for the thought.... it's an interesting scenario. I'm not sure if it would be or not, might be worth looking into though. I personally think a lot of his problem is PRIDE, EGO and just generally SELFISH. I think that covers a lot of his actions and words.

It has also been mentioned by a close friend who knows the situation that he could be bipolar. Again, I don't know about this. I still seem to think it comes under the above 3 problems - PRIDE, EGO and SELFISHNESS.

But I could be wrong...

[alecia]

I say read the thread because in it my husband lays out the requirements he asked of me for our marriage to continue. I think this is important because when something like an affair happens it means that trust has been broken. And for the marriage to continue that trust has to be regained, and that is not an easy thing. It requires extreme work to regain trust lost.

In my opinion, as someone who has been on the sinner's side of the fence, he really needs to prove to you that he is willing to change and willing to work on fixing the marriage with you. If he is not willing to do that then you may want to look at separation or possibly divorce. I say this because if he is not willing to give up the sin then he will continue to put you through the pain of his unfaithfulness, and no one deserves that.

If you would like to private message me I would be happy to talk more with you on this matter.

Thank you so much for sharing.... I will definitely read that right now. I am interested to see the requirements he asked of you. The hard thing with my marriage is that, i can see part of him wants to go to church, keep the family together etc, but I can see the rebellious part that wants nothing to do with the church.

The way I see it, is, if we can both get back to church with the goal of going back to the Temple, then this could possibly work..... but if none of that happens ... and we don't return to church as a family, then I doubt very much this will work.

One thing he said to me last night that greatly bothered me - and maybe someone can clarify this for me:

when he asked me what I would do if we separated, I said that either way I am going back to church, and if this didn't work with us then I would one day (long in the future!) find a guy that has the morals and values that I have, that is a good strong member of the church. He then said to me that will never happen. I asked well why not.

His reply was "for you to meet any guy in the church, he would have to be either a young missionary or a old man who's wife has died"....!! So he said i'm pretty much destined for a life with no-one if this ends and I choose the church path (which I'm going to anyway - even if I am alone). But yeah... just wondered if that actually is the case. (I'm not old by the way! lol I'm 35... )

[Tarnished]

There are plenty of guys out there who are good guys who are still looking for a wife or have gone through similar circumstances as you. I know of at least two guys who are in their 30s and are good men in the church and are single and looking. There are definitely guys out there that you could hook up with.

[MorningStar]

Disorder or no disorder - he needs a wake-up call. He is responsible for seeking help for his disorder because you are under no obligation to put up with that nonsense. Be strong! He thinks you are too vulnerable to leave. By his insensitive comments, he's testing the waters to see just how much you will take. He's acting like he gets to decide when you go too, which is weird.

I had a friend who refused to get help for her anxiety. Sad she has anxiety, yes, but she expected everyone to cater to her anxiety and live in her crazy world. She was constantly disrupting my peace with back to back phone calls instead of seeking treatment. If your husband is bipolar or has ADD, he needs to be asked what he's going to do about it.

[MorningStar]

Thank you so much for sharing.... I will definitely read that right now. I am interested to see the requirements he asked of you. The hard thing with my marriage is that, i can see part of him wants to go to church, keep the family together etc, but I can see the rebellious part that wants nothing to do with the church.

The way I see it, is, if we can both get back to church with the goal of going back to the Temple, then this could possibly work..... but if none of that happens ... and we don't return to church as a family, then I doubt very much this will work.

One thing he said to me last night that greatly bothered me - and maybe someone can clarify this for me:

when he asked me what I would do if we separated, I said that either way I am going back to church, and if this didn't work with us then I would one day (long in the future!) find a guy that has the morals and values that I have, that is a good strong member of the church. He then said to me that will never happen. I asked well why not.

His reply was "for you to meet any guy in the church, he would have to be either a young missionary or a old man who's wife has died"....!! So he said i'm pretty much destined for a life with no-one if this ends and I choose the church path (which I'm going to anyway - even if I am alone). But yeah... just wondered if that actually is the case. (I'm not old by the way! lol I'm 35... )

No, he's trying to scare you and make you feel like you're trapped. He doesn't want to change, but he doesn't want you to leave him either. I have met many, many women who happily remarried even at the ripe old age of *gulp* 35! I'm 35, by the way.

Better to be alone anyway than to have a man in your home/bed driving your crazy with his lying.

[rameumptom]

I agree with Morningstar. It is a control issue. Regardless of whether it is caused by bipolarism, ADHD, pride, or the man in the moon; it is HIS issue. There is nothing wrong with you helping him to overcome it, but he first must fully admit he has the problem, and then (like Tarnished) make a full committment to change, and then stay on the path to changing.

Until he moves along that path for a while, where you can see actual and permanent change occurring, he will only use you. As the story goes, why buy the cow when the milk is free? As long as you put up with this and he can successfully put his problems on your back, he has no reason to go all in and change.

I hope for your family's sake that he does change. But unless and until he does, you need to protect yourself and kids from his controlling nature. What if he next time brings home HIV and gives it to you? Protect yourself now, make that separation, and then give him 6 months to make some real changes in his life. By his fruits, ye shall know him. You will tell by his behaviors if he has truly changed. If he is attending Church every week, saying prayers, reading scriptures, showing you real courtesy and love, demonstrating true repentance for his sins (instead of joking about it), etc., THEN you will know that he is sincere in his changing.

[ryanh]

One thing he said to me last night that greatly bothered me - and maybe someone can clarify this for me:

when he asked me what I would do if we separated, I said that either way I am going back to church, and if this didn't work with us then I would one day (long in the future!) find a guy that has the morals and values that I have, that is a good strong member of the church. He then said to me that will never happen. I asked well why not.

His reply was "for you to meet any guy in the church, he would have to be either a young missionary or a old man who's wife has died"....!! So he said i'm pretty much destined for a life with no-one if this ends and I choose the church path (which I'm going to anyway - even if I am alone). But yeah... just wondered if that actually is the case. (I'm not old by the way! lol I'm 35... )

Yep, just a power play. A desperate attempt to keep you from leaving. A try to steal back power over you when he knows that he is the one in the desperate situation, and who is not in control. He's trying to gain control. What basis does he have to make that statement? What knowledge of the situation does he have of the real situation? Sounds like another one of those speak-before-thinking hurtful statements.

Alicia, there are worse things than being single. (being in a bad marriage is one that quickly comes to mind!)

[alecia]

There is nothing wrong with you helping him to overcome it, but he first must fully admit he has the problem, and then (like Tarnished) make a full committment to change, and then stay on the path to changing.

He did say to me that he "wants my help to fix this" (meaning our marriage), I guess, I'm just not inspired to while he continues to play these.... what I can only call, games.

Until he moves along that path for a while, where you can see actual and permanent change occurring, he will only use you.

Exactly, i think I need to see that he is first truly willing to change.... like Morningstar said - he needs a serious wake up call. I said to him last night that I am serious about a legal separation and he needs to find somewhere else to stay when we move ... his reply: he just chuckled. He honestly thinks that I still want him.... sheesh, makes me think that for the past 10 years I have been tooooo devoted! He is so absolutely secure, that he thinks I can't live without him and that all of this can be swept under the carpet!

What if he next time brings home HIV and gives it to you?

The only credit I will give him is that he never 'physically' cheated - as in, he didn't have sex with her. Yes he kissed her and that (argh!) and cuddled... but I know for a fact he didn't sleep with her. I think this is why he makes light of it - he even went so far the other day as to say that he didn't cheat on me. Sorry, but kissing and cuddling another woman is not what I consider loyalty!!!!!!! I also found out that while he was out playing one night last year (he was in a band), he stayed behind one night and snogged one of the bar girls!!!!!! I was pretty devastated to hear that. He said she asked him to go home with her, but obviously he declined and came home to me. He says I should be glad that he didn't take her up on that offer - and that every time he played a gig he had 'options' cos lots of girls hit on him... but he never took any of them up on it (oh, until the one earlier this year). Oh gee, he deserves a medal doesn't he! *sarcasm*

By his fruits, ye shall know him. You will tell by his behaviors if he has truly changed. If he is attending Church every week, saying prayers, reading scriptures, showing you real courtesy and love, demonstrating true repentance for his sins (instead of joking about it), etc., THEN you will know that he is sincere in his changing.

Ah yes, "by his fruits, ye shall know him". That is exactly true. I need to see changes, cos I'm tired and drained of hearing that he WILL change.... time I saw it I think. My friend said to me yesterday "he's just a great actor - he really should enter that industry, he'd do well". I tend to think that may be true. It saddens me to think that I got it so completely wrong with this guy.... I swear to you that I thought the last thing I EVER had to worry about with my husband was loyalty....

[alecia]

Yep, just a power play. A desperate attempt to keep you from leaving. A try to steal back power over you when he knows that he is the one in the desperate situation, and who is not in control. He's trying to gain control. What basis does he have to make that statement? What knowledge of the situation does he have of the real situation? Sounds like another one of those speak-before-thinking hurtful statements.

Alicia, there are worse things than being single. (being in a bad marriage is one that quickly comes to mind!)

Hi Ryan, I'm not scared to be single. I guess, like many others, when I married this guy and then when we got sealed in the Temple, it was forever. I never expected anything like this ever to happen.... it has totally thrown me... totally. When all this first came to light earlier in the year, it was hell for me. To be honest, it was so unexpected, that there were times I thought I wouldn't even survive. It's only due to one of my very best friends that I got through it. But now... it's 6 months later, I found out 3 weeks ago that he's still been chasing her - even though she is most definitely not interested - and I'm just over it. Mostly I am over the lies and deceit. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He seems to just play games with me.... and I don't buy into it anymore. I have never seen any serious regret. In fact, he's never shed a tear over this whole situation. Until I see that he understands exactly what he put me through, then I need to shut the door on this - not lock it, just shut it. He needs to sort himself out without me being there to do it for him. I guess my point is, after all of this drama, I'd rather be on my own. Well, I would LOVE him to sort himself out and make the changes he needs to. But I can see he won't do that with me.... so I need to get out of this. But yeah, there's only so much I can take. I think I held it together for so long and was trying to be forgiving because our sealing means the world to me. But... it obviously doesn't to him.

But yes, as for what he said bout not finding anyone in the church - well, the way he thinks is that if any guy is single in the church, they are either a missionary who has just come back, or an older guy who's wife has passed on. So I think that's why he thinks like that. Maybe he was just trying to scare me.... but what he doesn't realise, is that after all that he has put me through... my focus is solely on doing the right thing and getting back to church. A new male is the LAST thing on my mind. I guess it's not the nicest thought to have though that for the rest of my days I would be single! lol

[MorningStar]

Oh brother! He is really trying to minimize what he's done. How happy would he be if you were snuggling with other men? A guy I know runs an addiction group and is a recovering alcoholic. He said he would justify his behavior by pointing at others and saying, "That guy drinks AND he does drugs! At least I don't do drugs!" That's how he allowed himself to continue down that road. You husband is engaging in typical addict talk. Blech. He thinks you're bluffing.

Let's see how funny he thinks it is when you throw him out on his can.

[alecia]

He thinks you're bluffing.

YES!!! He so does. Which to be honest, it upsets me, because how could he possibly think that I want any of this right now? ... I wish he would take me seriously... it's almost insulting!

Let's see how funny he thinks it is when you throw him out on his can.

I'm not sure how to actually achieve this.... I don't know how to make him see that I am serious and want him out. Oh well, we make the big move next weekend.... and have told him that he needs to find somewhere else to stay from then. And that I want a legal separation. I wish he could just respect me enough to respect my wishes. Maybe that's the problem.... he has no respect for my thoughts or feelings.

Thank you all for helping me through this.... coming here each day to read messages from you guys and being able to reply, it's such a massive help and my burden feels slightly lifted.

xxoo

[Seanette]

The only credit I will give him is that he never 'physically' cheated - as in, he didn't have sex with her. Yes he kissed her and that (argh!) and cuddled... but I know for a fact he didn't sleep with her. I think this is why he makes light of it - he even went so far the other day as to say that he didn't cheat on me. Sorry, but kissing and cuddling another woman is not what I consider loyalty!!!!!!! I also found out that while he was out playing one night last year (he was in a band), he stayed behind one night and snogged one of the bar girls!!!!!! I was pretty devastated to hear that. He said she asked him to go home with her, but obviously he declined and came home to me. He says I should be glad that he didn't take her up on that offer - and that every time he played a gig he had 'options' cos lots of girls hit on him... but he never took any of them up on it (oh, until the one earlier this year). Oh gee, he deserves a medal doesn't he! *sarcasm*

No insult intended to YOU, but HOW can you be sure what he is or isn't doing when you're not there to see, given his track record of deceitful behavior? This may be a situation where he thinks if he confesses to a "less serious" offense, you'll think he's coming clean.

Please check in with your doctor. Your kids need ONE dependable parent. Two would of course be better, but apparently not happening until your husband grows up and faces the reality of his actions. Christ Himself said that to lust in one's heart is equivalent to committing the physical act (see Matthew 5:28, 3 Nephi 12:28, D&C 63:16), and based on the number of times He said it, it's important to know and accept that fact.

[beefche]

Thank you, Seannette. It seems alecia is taking his word as gospel that he didn't have sex with anyone. Sounds to me that he really can't be trusted right now, so better to get yourself checked out rather than rely on him to tell you you are safe.

[Seanette]

I know if my DH admitted to ANY contact more intimate than a fully clothed hug with any woman other than me, I'd think it quite likely that he'd done more than he was admitting and would rush to the doctor to make sure he didn't transmit anything to me (considering there's sexually transmitted stuff around that will KILL, I would NOT take any risks in that direction, especially not if I had young children who still needed Mommy).

[rameumptom]

Alecia, I suggest you also see a lawyer to draw up legal separation papers. These are different than divorce papers. In them, you can specifically note things like visitation of children, what he can/cannot do near you, etc. It will also help protect you financially, in case he has a problem with debt/credit cards, etc. Such papers will force him into reality of the severity of the situation. I'm thinking he's planning on moving into the new house, whether you want him to, or not. And he'll force himself in unless you have legal documents to keep him out.

The other option is to have the bishop advise him on this situation, but most bishops are not equipped with being able to deal well with such issues, and so probably would not want to get that involved.

It is a sad thing to have to do this, but a necessary one, IMO.

[baellison]

Hey, I'm new on here and current investigator. I would love to chat with you on this subject. I may or may not have goiod advice but I find myself in my current turbulent marriage chatting with a girlfriend and feeling so much better afterwards. Im then able to not express myself to him sideways and come to him on another level or be able to give the space needed that I wouldnt have been able to do without venting first. Sadly this stuff will consume you if you allow it to. And I'm so sorry you are going through this. What I can say is only you know what type of connection is left for the two of you when you are together. ask yourself this" what are you sacrificing to be with him" "what do you like about him, not love but like" and then ultimately I would suggest you both sit down and agree to give it x amount of time and do your best and I mean day in and day out. figure out why you like eachother all over again, find the friend you lost, if you can manage to do this you are on a road to a possibly once again happy marriage. Also ask yourself this " can you forgive him, truly forgive him? I would spend some time alone to ask yourself this question. Then maybe think about things you can do to better yourslef and then do better for him. remember we will never change anyone, but you can better yourself and no better time than now. if it works and you commit to working on you, he will have one desirable wife all over again he will never want to look at another woman and if you dont work things out, you will be one confident and stong woman getting out there again. somethimes we have to train ourselves to love all over again, my personal experience, and i feel that it's ok to do this, but is he? I did find myself beeging my husband to talk or hold me things like that and these things made it worst. it made me feel horrible because its not like me, but after being with someone for this long and truly believing in us being soulmates, for a while I couldnt grasp on to why this man became the way he had. So now is the test of time for myself to get back on my "a"game and never beg or depend on any man again 110% my confidence since has grown and i am fully desirable to him. the more i would cry and let him know i needed him he tended to not care even more, well thats what he showed but that wasnt the truth. he now is commited to really really working on us and in the end we can say we gave it one last honest go round. you owe it to the relationship. best of luck

brooke

[alecia]

Hi Brooke, thank you for your advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it :)

I can tell you now we certainly have the love and friendship there if I want to "sweep this under the carpet" and forget about it. What I mean is, I could let this go, forget about it and we could have a great marriage... but for how long? His idea is to just 'move on'. Make this move to this new city in a couple of weeks, be closer to family and move on from this situation.

But for me, it's not as easy as that. I want to see changes, and you're right, I can't (and won't) force him to change. He needs to do that on his own. He needs to make the decision for himself to get his life on the right path or carry on down this self destructive path that he's on. He says he wants to make changes, but needs my help. But i feel that he's putting a burden on my shoulders and relying on ME to help him change... and that's something that no-one else can do for a person. He needs to do it on his own. But for me, I cannot carry on in a marriage where there have been so many lies and so much deceit - especially when he can still 'make light of what he's done' and when he's not truly regretful or repentant. When I see that he's like that, it makes it a lot harder to even try and forgive him, and shows me that he's not really wanting to change at all. As someone said above "by his fruits, ye shall know him".

I truly believe we were meant for each other. I have no doubt in my mind there. We had a great marriage, I supported and loved him 150%. Oh for sure, I wasn't perfect, no-one is, but even he has told me that he wouldn't change a thing about me, that as a wife and Mum, he couldn't have asked for better. I appreciate him telling me that too... it means he does realise how much I have done for him. Look, maybe I did too much, maybe he was too secure, I'm not sure. All I know is that when all this happened he said to me that he was in such a bad space, such a dark place and just didn't care about life at all. I guess that was the start of the destructive path.... He hid those feelings so well too, although, I thought he was suffering from depression - so much so that because he wouldn't go see a Dr, I bought him some natural antidepressants. I honestly thought that was the problem. little did i know it was the guilt and the wanting someone else!! Grrr... makes me mad to even think about it. But yeah, I finally know that he didn't do all this because of what I did/didn't do/say ... and because I have been a good wife, that's the reason for the guilt and the shame and the moods... it's almost like he hated me for a while there. But as my friend pointed out - it's not me he hates, it's himself. And I tend to agree with that. At the end of the day, I have done my absolute best for this marriage.... I kept it together for the past year - and that's when the lies started. Maybe i should have walked out then. But I have given him chance after chance. So that is why I believe that the best thing I can do for him now is to walk away. He needs to make the choice himself of whether he is going to change or not.

At first, when all this came out, I was an emotional wreck and did similar things as to what you mentioned above... I would cry, beg, it was horrible. I hated the desperate way I was acting... but acknowledged it was because my heart had broken. But now... I'm nothing like that. I'm far stronger, I know what I need to do if this is to ever have a chance - and that is to let him go. He doesn't want to, he wants to fix this - but he's making no effort to do so.... as you can see from my previous posts. I am in a far better emotional place now.... my business is just starting to do soooo well, and I believe that is a huge blessing in these circumstances. I know that Heavenly Father is looking over me :) i will be okay, it won't be easy, but i know i will get through just fine xox