a need to vent

[funkenheimer]

This may not be the best place to post this, but there are many relationships involved her (my ex and I, my girls and I, my girls and their mom, etc.)

I have been divorced for just over a year now and my ex and I were separated for 7 months before that. There were many reasons for the divorce, but the primary reason was due to her addiction to prescription drugs and her unwillingness to get treatment. I have full custody of our 2 daughters. The other reasons (lying, reckless finances, etc.) were primarily the result of the addiction.

This post is pretty much just to vent some of my frustrations. My wages have been garnished heavily for the past several months to pay for medical bills that, until recently, I didn't know about. These medical bills were generated while my ex wife and i were still married and since the insurance was in my name, so are the bills. My ex has paid a total of $110 in the last year. Her child support obligation is $163/month. I pay $250/month each month for "spousal support" (alimony) faithfully.

My ex came to pick up my girls for their weekly Thursday night visit. She had new hair extensions, new designer jeans, and a new leather jacket. I was furious. Here I am barely making ends meet, most of my savings exhausted, still paying for her addiction more than a year later, and she spends money without consideration of her financial obligation to her daughters. In retrospect the above statement is not entirely true. I am not making ends meet. I have had to borrow money from my mom and dad just to stay current on my bills.

I didn't say anything at the time because the girls were there. But the next day after I knew the girls would be in school and she would be getting ready for work I called her. I told her of my frustrations and she got very defensive and hung up. I tried calling her back but she would not answer. Later I sent her a text and threatened to file a motion for contempt of court for not payment of child support. 15 minutes later I got a call from her mom and this where the fun really began. I realize I had absolutely no obligation to talk to her but I was already in a foul mood so I why not. She unloaded on me about how I shouldn't expect her to pay that I make more money than her and it's stupid to expect the mother to pay child support to the father. She ended by saying I should just let it go and forget about it.

So this actually got me thinking. Even though i am legally entitled to the money, and she does have a job now, is it wrong for me to expect her to pay?

[applepansy]

No its not wrong. I'm on your side on this one. It doesn't matter ...mother or father... both should be treated equally when it comes to taking care of their children. The non-custodial parent should be paying child support. Your ex-MIL is just plain wrong. It isn't a matter of who makes more money. Its isn't a matter of "a mother shouldn't have to pay child support." Its an issue of responsibility.

Its not likely that your ex or her mother will change their views on this, so don't argue with them. But I would bring the action about the child support. You need the money to support your girls.

My VENT: Our legal system in regards to child support is very lopsided and unfair. We've focused on dead-beat dads for so long that dead-beat moms are getting away with a lot. Its really more than unfair, its wrong and biased in my very-outspoken opinion.

Currently, a mother can apply for welfare, which results in the State ordering a parternity test, paid for by the State. Then the State can go after a father's wages without a court order. Child support is assessed and wages are garnished without a hearing. However, If the mother doesn't have custody then there has to be a hearing, that she shows up to. On top of that the father then has to apply for welfare. If he makes too much money the State then refuses to collect child support. Even in cases where the mother doesn't qualify for welfare the State will step in and collect child support, but they won't do that when the shoe is on the other foot. To me that is a biased system that needs to be corrected. Dead-beat parents are NOT gender specific.

[rameumptom]

This isn't the 1960s when most mothers were stay at home moms without a job.

Your ex caused the divorce by her choices. She wants access to the daughters AND you are paying alimony. For your own benefit and that of the girls, you need to take her back to court. We have a lot of dead beat Dads who are in prison for non-payment of child support. I see no reason to keep a woman out for the same reason. She has a responsibility for those children. The ex-MIL should not be defending her daughter, but helping the children.

And if she isn't helping you, get the court agreement changed, so that you are not having to pay her alimony. And if she goes to jail, well at least she'll be less of a pain for a while, and perhaps can stop her addiction.

[Gwen]

this confuses me a little.... Her child support obligation is $163/month. I pay $250/month each month for "spousal support" (alimony)... lol sorry sometimes i confuse easily. so you pay her 250 to have her supposedly turn around and pay you 163? why not just pay her the difference?

my other thought is yes she should be paying child support. i would tell her you do expect it to be paid. if she does not you will take it to court and she can pay the back support as well as what she owes currently. might be able to work out a deal with her where you do an exchange, you won't demand child support but she doesn't get alimony, you retain that to help care for the kids. i doubt a court would go for it if you requested it but you might be able to get her to agree and the two of you work it out and submit it to the courts as your agreement.

the hard part is finding a way that you get it automatically, you can't depend on her to actually pay it. i agree with apple there is a huge issue in our system of coming down on dead beat dads and not dead beat moms but the issues and struggles are the same.

[Suzanne627]

it's stupid to expect the mother to pay child support to the father.

Umm.. what? It is stupid to expect the person who is NOT caring for the children to help support them? I don't see what gender has to do with responsibility.

Also, while you may make more money, you also have greater financial obligation. They have no valid agruments.

Don't harbor anger. You have your girls and I am so happy that you do. In the big scheme, that is what is really important and they will one day realize all that you have done and sacraficed to keep them in a safe, loving home.

Keep record of all payments she has missed.

[ryanh]

Funken, I feel your pain! I understand! It is sooooo frustrating to be tight on money or struggling, and watching the ex be loose with money that was hard earned by you!!!

Although you don't have the money, it may pay off to borrow money so you can get the counsel of an attorney. See if you can net the two payments and send her only $87 per month. See if, because her wages apparently increased, it is time to adjust child support (I think in UT it is a 25% difference threshold where the bump can be applied for). See what to do about back amounts owed. And, see if the divorce decree made any sort of bifurcation of debts incurred so that you can tell the medical billers to go after her, and that you have a legal shield from obligation.

[applepansy]

this confuses me a little.... Her child support obligation is $163/month. I pay $250/month each month for "spousal support" (alimony)... lol sorry sometimes i confuse easily. so you pay her 250 to have her supposedly turn around and pay you 163? why not just pay her the difference?

Gwen, this is common. In my sons case he's paying 350.00 a month in back child support and she is suppose to pay ... I think its about $120.00 a month. The state wouldn't apply her child support to his rears. And they won't collect her child support either.

Addition: My son's attorney said this was common with the courts even in alimoney. He said it is because the courts do not want to become debt collectors.

Edited November 8, 2010 by applepansy

[Just_A_Guy]

this confuses me a little.... Her child support obligation is $163/month. I pay $250/month each month for "spousal support" (alimony)... lol sorry sometimes i confuse easily. so you pay her 250 to have her supposedly turn around and pay you 163? why not just pay her the difference?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

NO!

Sorry--I don't mean to be rude, but I recently defended a dad who did precisely this. Wife still brought a contempt motion against him for not paying the full amount of the alimony, and she darned near won. Luckily, the judge just yelled at my client instead of throwing him in jail.

[Gwen]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

NO!

Sorry--I don't mean to be rude, but I recently defended a dad who did precisely this. Wife still brought a contempt motion against him for not paying the full amount of the alimony, and she darned near won. Luckily, the judge just yelled at my client instead of throwing him in jail.

maybe i wasn't clear lol i would never suggest not paying something until it's made legal (where the courts will accept it). i deal with my husband's ex all the time, we won't make payments of any kind unless it's registered with the courts first. i know the courts are stupid. i just don't understand why the courts can't do the math and say, ok instead of passing money back and forth, especially when one party won't pay, so let's just do the difference.

definitely make it legal first.

[Wingnut]

this confuses me a little.... Her child support obligation is $163/month. I pay $250/month each month for "spousal support" (alimony)... lol sorry sometimes i confuse easily. so you pay her 250 to have her supposedly turn around and pay you 163? why not just pay her the difference?

Also, why is she getting $250 for just herself -- one person, a grown woman, capable of taking care of herself -- in alimony, while your girls -- at least two, incapable of supporting themselves -- only get a combined $163?

[Just_A_Guy]

I hear you, Gwen. My experience is that family law courts don't like to get bogged down in the numbers--judges are just overgrown lawyers, and lawyers are just a bunch of guys who were willing to do three years of postgraduate school to avoid taking a college-level calculus class. Keeping the payments separate makes contempt proceedings very easy to resolve--either Dad made his April 2010 payment in full, and he's in the clear; or he didn't, and he goes to jail.

Wingers, at least in UT alimony is generally designed to equalize the parties' living situations and is subjective (the court can make allowances for Mom having put Dad through school or dropped out of college herself--that kind of thing); whereas child support is calculated by a strict formula. It seems backwards, but that's the way they do it.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[Wingnut]

judges are just overgrown lawyers, and lawyers are just a bunch of guys who were willing to do three years of postgraduate school to avoid taking a college-level calculus class.

:lol:

[funkenheimer]

Thanks to all for the input, this is pretty much the way I was leaning.

Perhaps an update and a little more detail is in order.

First, I have consulted an attorney on this matter. There is no way I would make a decision like this without legal counsel. The attorney told me that under no circumstances should I not pay or pay a lesser amount for alimony without a signed and sealed court order. Otherwise, as was previously mentioned, I too would be in violation of a court order and in contempt.

What is likely to happen is I will file a motion with the court and there will be a hearing. She will then be ordered to pay, including the back amount owed. All necessary actions will be taken to make sure this is paid. But more importantly, this would be registered with the court and both of us would make payments to the state rather than to each other. This way the state can track exactly what has been paid and what has not been paid.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Sitamoia]

it's stupid to expect the mother to pay child support to the father. She ended by saying I should just let it go and forget about it.

And which planet is she living on? A parent, regardless of gender needs to financially support their child/ren. Being a woman does not excuse you from that responsibility.

I would keep a diary of all and any interaction you have with her as well as any non-payments. With any luck you will not have to use it once you have filed the motion with the courts but it doesn't hurt to keep a trail. As your attorney said, keep doing everything by the book and hopefully you can get this sorted quickly rather than having it drag on.

Best of luck.

[Guest mirancs8]

She unloaded on me about how I shouldn't expect her to pay that I make more money than her and it's stupid to expect the mother to pay child support to the father. She ended by saying I should just let it go and forget about it.

So this actually got me thinking. Even though i am legally entitled to the money, and she does have a job now, is it wrong for me to expect her to pay?

I feel for you. Though for me it's my ex-husband. He pays pennies a month for the kids in child support yet he has a nice chunk of money in the bank. He never offers to help with any of the childrens expenses medical or otherwise. Enough about me phew I felt a vent coming on. Anyway, you need to tell her to get some backbone and keep her overbearing nosy mother out of your business with her. You are both adults no need for mommy to come dump a load on you for something her daughter should be doing and that's paying the child support.

No don't let it go but do try to talk to her without getting angry. That just makes things worse. Don't threaten her just yet with court (really do you need that extra expense?) instead try to work her in a way to work out for you. There are ways. You were married to her so use what you know to get what you should be out of her.

I know it's annoying but hang in there it will get better in time.