General Question about Bible or Book of Mormon study

[Lilac]

I was up late, late last night thinking and praying about joing the LDS. I've been an investigator now for over a year. We go to church almost every Sunday and my kids are doing all the kids activities (Boys Scouts etc). My kids love the LDS.

Just for some background since we can't remember all the details of all the posters here. I am a Christian who was raised fundamentalist Baptist, then was conservative Lutheran for a while and then floundered around because we couldn't find a church and we have landed up with the LDS for a while now. God is the most important thing to me and I believe with all my heart that Jesus is the Savior.

I am impressed with the LDS as a group and I really like you guys. I'm still working on the testimony of the BoM and Joseph Smith.

Anyway, while I was up thinking and praying last night, some new thoughts crossed my mind. In the year I've been with the LDS, I've noticed something. Where is the actual Bible study?

In the Sacrament Meeting, people are assigned to give a talk on a particular topic. They do a good job. They quote some Bible verses and quote some church elders or the President (past or present) and tie it in to the topic. I don't notice anyone reading along in their Bible or Book of Mormon. I don't see anyone taking notes.

I go to the Gospel Lessons class and I learn about the LDS. My teacher is very good and I've learned a lot about the LDS and we do read from the Bible/Book of Mormon, D&C etc. Briefly, but we do it.

Then I go to Relief Society Meeting. Someone is assigned a topic and chosen to speak on that topic. The women take turns reading various verses and then talking about the meanings and how it relates to the chosen topic and how we can apply these things to our lives. No one takes notes. No one verse or chapter is discussed in depth.

I have met with the missionaries, weekly or biweekly for a year. We have discussed the LDS and mostly baptism. In fact, the last missionary session got a little heated because one missionary was really really pushing baptism kinda hard and I started to feel almost attacked over the issue. I know he meant well and we did work it out (no hard feelings and he apologized the next day for being a bit heavy handed). But no one has every really TAUGHT me any Book of Mormon stories. I have been instructed to read the Book of Mormon and pray. Ya know, the Book of Mormon is not an easy read, at least not for me anyway. I need some guidance...a study guide or something? I know that I wouldn't send a new Christian right into the Bible in the Old Testament...they'd conk out around Leviticus. In the churches I've been in, a new Christian is placed in a Bible study so they can study the Bible, in a group, with someone who is (hopefully) a good Bible teacher and the new person can learn all the amazing information that God has given us.

So, in the midst of my thinking and praying, it occurred to me that I have never sat through an actual study where someone takes a chapter and teaches from that chapter. I have not learned any stories from the Book of Mormon. I have not heard anyone say "let's open to John 3 and discuss what Jesus is saying in these verses" Or "let's see what 2 Nephi chapter 5 teaches us"

Like I said, I come from a hard core Baptist background and I'm used to having a notebook with me and everyone taking notes, highlighting in their Bibles etc. I would come out of church and said "I learned about John 3 today". I was cleaning out some old boxes of stuff and I found quite a few notebooks of all my notes from church. Bible studies, verses, info., how to apply it etc. It hit me kinda hard.

When I was Lutheran, we had three Bible readings during the service and the minister would preach for about 30 minutes on one of those Bible readings. I took some notes and felt that I learned about that particular chapter of the Bible.

Now, I know that I can take notes during Sacrament Meeting or RS but the talks are not really geared like a teaching class which I'm accustomed to.

My opinion is that the LDS seem to know their Bible and Book of Mormon facts. Now where do you learn this?

I assume the men learn from their missionary training and seminary? My kids are learning a lot in primary.

But every Sunday I haven't really felt that I've come home with some good, deep study of Scripture.

If I were a complete newcomer to the Christian faith, where and when do you teach the stories about Jesus, His life, His teachings? The Epistles? The Old Testament Stories?

Or, for me, the Book of Mormon stories? I'd love for someone to get up and say "everyone turn to Nephi 10 and we are diving in folks, get ready!" I have not heard one story preached out fo the Book of Mormon. Why is that?

My husband is a complete convert to the Christian faith and let me tell you, those Bapstists got a hold of him and they had him bombarded with Bible stories, Scripture memorization, lessons etc. He knows his Bible backwards and forwards. But if he knew zero and then joined the LDS, where would he have learned these Bible things? And being a potential convert now to the LDS, where does he get to learn the Book of Mormon, backwards and forwards?

I hope this doesn't sound accusatory or critical. I realize it could come off like that but I hope you know my heart, that I wrote this with honest intentions.

I realize too that different denominations have different styles also but this just jumped out at me last night.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[pam]

Are you going to the Gospel Doctrine class or the Gospel Principles class? In the Gospel Doctrine class we are learning about the Old Testament this year. Each year is dedicated to another one of our standard works.

[beefche]

Seminary (for the teens--during the week in the school year) and Gospel Doctrine (for the adults on Sunday) focuses on one book of scripture a year. This year in Gospel Doctrine we are studying the Old Testament. Next year we will study the New Testament.

Our church emphasizes learning on our own and not relying on church to be the primary source of learning. So, while we do study the scriptures at church, the majority of learning of the members is done as an individual (or family).

[Maya]

HI Lilac great to hear that you are progressing in your investigation.

Yes for a newcomer adult it may seem a bit weird the way things are. I think many LDS forget that the newcomer probably dont knwo any of the stories... soem dont know them fron the OT or NT either. You know thare is the thing called seminary for those 14-18 in this seminary they go through all 4 scriptures... one each year. Then for the young adults there is an Institutt where they go trought them again and often there is an Institutt for the grown ups too. Try to find out if there is an adult Institutt close enough for you to attend.

Many of us ... like me (who also was a lutheran) learn the stories by reading the stories to my kids from a Scripture Stoory Book that had the stories written for kids, or by working in primary or the youth sundayschool.

I agree with you a new convert is a bit at loss because he/she dont know the stories... but you learn them by reading.

I also was/am missing the small studygroups. But there are the Istituts... if ther is one close enough. Otherways one can buy the Institutt book and have a selfstudy which you can also take free from BYU on internett. And there is LDS.net!

Otherways it could be nice for you to ask missionaries over once a week to tell you a new story every time. I think members have so much to do, that to have one more group study in the week would be too much... depending how colse you live to one an other... like her the distances can be like 10 miles.

I think Institutt is the closest to what you are asking about... but that too is all too full of things to teach so there is not much time for discusition. Study of scriptures is left quite a bit for every family to do how ever they like to do it, but it is said everyone should read a bit every day together and by yourself.

I understand well how you feel... I felt like that too when they put me to Primary to teach the next Sunday after my babtizement... 25 years in Primary has tought me well the stories though...

Dont worry... you will eventually learn them all... easiest is to read childrens books or see DVDs. When you get the gift of the Holy Ghost the scriptures will eventually open to you in a way you never dreamed of. Institutt books are very good to have. You can get them from the church or Deseret Books.

Acts 8:28-38

I just add this from Deliahs thread it was about a story in the Meridian magazine... link is in that thread in my post: As I red that story during week... when I came EXCACTLY to that place... I just felt that someone out there needs to know this.

An other good one is Acts 8 28-38.

Yes we dont need the perfect knowledge we just need to 1. Acknowledge Jesus Christ and His atonement for us 2. repend, and we are good to get wet! All the rest will be taught to us bit by bit by the Holy Spirit (as we have the gift as members). Basics have to be strong to build big!:) Happy building!

Edited November 28, 2010 by Maya

[tubaloth]

Congrats on studying the Book of Mormon!

Anyway, while I was up thinking and praying last night, some new thoughts crossed my mind. In the year I've been with the LDS, I've noticed something. Where is the actual Bible study?

One thing you well see is that we see the scriptures for the most part all equal. What I mean by that is most LDS don't count how many times we quote something from the Book of Mormon or from the Pearl of Great price. We think of it as God's word, no matter where it comes from. The difference is we have more to choose from. Most cases we throw in what Latter-Day Prophets says and for most members its not any different. This the way of thinking in a church with Revelation.

With that said, and what others were saying is about Sunday School. Church has three "blocks." Relief Society/Priesthood, Sunday School And Sacrament meeting. It is kind of different now days because in RS and Priesthood we are using the new Gospel Principles manual. There is also a class for new members called the Gospel Principles class, they use the same book.

For others that aren't new members they go to Gospel Doctrine Class during Sunday school. This class studies each book of Scripture that we in the LDS church has. Right now we are studying the Old Testament. When the year changes we well move over to the New Testament, then the Book of Mormon, then the Doctrine and Covenants.

If you have been going to the Gospel Principles class for a while, I would suggest checking out the Gospel Doctrine Class. I would have a talk with Missionaries where they feel is is best for you now.

But no one has every really TAUGHT me any Book of Mormon stories.

I know how much you probably want to "get it" all right now. Probably with your Bible knowledge, you want your Book of Mormon Knowledge to grow quickly. From the Church's point of view we want you to grown and really not run faster then you can. In the church we believe spiritual knowledge comes line upon line. I think Nephi taught about that. Part of this is probably because you have been studying for long.

Most Investigators take around 6-10 weeks. There are some that take longer thing this, but the church's system really isn't set up that way. For new members that haven't joined the church, the real goal is to get them to read the Book of Mormon. To study it themselves at there own pace. It would be hard to teach a class on the book of mormon for all the different levels new members are. The hope is as they study, and as Sunday School class comes around then they are ready (fimilar) with the Book of Mormon enough.

As you know the Book of Mormon is about a Journey. I think the Book of Mormon was written that way so each person could go on that Journey themselves. Its what each of us has to do.

Again I would talk with Missionaries and the Bishop.

You can find all Gospel Doctrine Manuals online

LDS.org - Sunday School

During Collage Young Adults can take an Institute class.

There manuals are found here

Institute of Religion Courses

You can buy any of this at LDS.org too.

The Sunday School manuals might work out more here, but those manuals really for teachers teaching the class. The Institute manuals are used more for personal study, but you have to be careful that you don't end up studying the manual more then the Scriptures yourself.

We do have the classes you are looking for. But learning all of this is going to take talk. I hope you don't try to make the process of Joining the church, or even more finding the Truth, more complicated. Both investigator and member do the same thing. We want all the answers before we seek an answer. We do have to walk by Faith sometimes.

Is the Book of Mormon True? Good Luck!

Edited November 28, 2010 by tubaloth

[Dravin]

Anyway, while I was up thinking and praying last night, some new thoughts crossed my mind. In the year I've been with the LDS, I've noticed something. Where is the actual Bible study?

As mentioned that takes place in Gospel Doctrine class. It isn't exactly hard core scripture study though. They go over the lessons and princples that can be applied from the sections being studied that week. Keep in mind you are suppose to read the lesson material on your own prior to class as well, so the stuff they will go over in Gospel Doctrine is a highlights situation.

The short answer is the Bible (and scripture study in general) will mostly be taking place inside of your home. Keep in mind instead of professional pastors or people who have vulnteered to teach a class on a Standard Work because of their deep knowledge and understanding of it the teachers are called. You will run into the situation (if you stick around long enough) where you have a deeper knowledge and understanding of the scriptures being discussed than your teacher. In which case pipe up.

I have not learned any stories from the Book of Mormon. I have not heard anyone say "let's open to John 3 and discuss what Jesus is saying in these verses" Or "let's see what 2 Nephi chapter 5 teaches us"

In Gospel Doctrine you will see particular chapters being gone over in decent depth (such as the beatitudes) but trying to go over the entire New Testament, Old Testament, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants in a year each means you tend to hurry right along.

With your desire to learn I recommend you get your hands on the Lesson Manuals (I see someone provided a link) and start going over things yourself. It would be a wonderful thing to do as Family Home Evening, to hold your own Gospel Doctrine lesson that focuses specifically on what you want. One should also be studying alone and as a family, which allows you to once again focus on what you want. And if you want to take a month to go over a single chapter, go for it.

You may find these BYU Television shows to be of interest. I haven't really watched them myself though so I don't know if they are quite what you are seeking:

BYUtv - Discussions on the Old Testament

BYUtv - The Acts to Revelation: Discussions on the New Testament

BYUtv - Discussions on the Book of Mormon

BYUtv - Discussions on the Doctrine and Covenants

My opinion is that the LDS seem to know their Bible and Book of Mormon facts. Now where do you learn this?

As mentioned at seminary while teens, at Institute of Religion during young adulthood, during Gospel Doctrine, and lots of personal study.

[Lilac]

Thanks for your gracious answers. I was relieved that you did not feel attacked.

I go to the Gospel Principles class. I guess since I haven't been baptized and officially joined, I am directed over there. I went to the Bible study once. They said "oh you are supposed to be over in the Gospel Principle class". I didn't know if I did something wrong because I'm not baptized in the LDS and I didn't ask after that. It was kind of embarrassing to be called out like that so I just stick with the Gospel Principles class. I don't want to be a crasher!

It's just weird, I guess. For almost 40 years, Bible studies and Bible studies and yet again more Bible studies. The Fundamentalist Baptist churches I have attended have Church service (about 45-60 minutes of preaching), the adult Sunday school (another hour of Bible study and preaching/teaching) and then services on Sunday night with yet again, more Bible studies with preaching/teaching. Add in a two hour Wednesday night service with more Bible teaching and preaching. And then maybe an hour a day of your own study.

That amounts to A LOT of Bible study and I truly loved every minute of it. I loved learning from those who really can teach me new things and bring me more knowledge of Christ. I also study on my own but it's fun to really get into a good group study.

I guess I feel a bit frustrated about this? I've been told to read this long book with really no formal guidance and I'm supposed to make sense of it all on my own? For people who grew up in the church, it is easy. Like I can pick up the Bible and just read it. I read the Bible every day and I read it with my kids, teach it etc. It is just part of who I am. I can't just get into the groove with the Book of Mormon. It's a lot harder than I thought to just learn something new.

I guess I have to think on this a bit. The LDS are so dedicated to their beliefs, I guess I am just surprised. I REALLY miss all the Bible study. I study on my own but it's not the same. My own study is just one dimentional. It's me, my opinions, my thoughts and my experiences. Ya know?

Well, anyway, thank you for your time and suggestions. I'll try to sort all of this out.

Have a blessed day tomorrow! :)

[Dravin]

I guess I feel a bit frustrated about this? I've been told to read this long book with really no formal guidance and I'm supposed to make sense of it all on my own? For people who grew up in the church, it is easy. Like I can pick up the Bible and just read it. I read the Bible every day and I read it with my kids, teach it etc. It is just part of who I am. I can't just get into the groove with the Book of Mormon. It's a lot harder than I thought to just learn something new.

I really recommend the manuals linked to then, it should help with some explanation.

[beefche]

You know, lilac, I'm with you about studying on your own. I enjoy the interaction of others as we study together. There is institute, but that is typically for the Young Single Adults (18-30). For us old farts, we don't get that type of a class. I have heard of some people just getting together on their own to do scripture study (or other study--there were some people in my ward who studied the Constitution this past year). I don't know if you could do something like that in your ward or not--not sure of the response you would get as people tend to get really busy in their lives.

And if you want to go to Gospel Doctrine, you can do so. To avoid the situation you had before, you might want to contact the GD teacher ahead of time to say that you'd really like to attend the class. That way, the teacher can help to counteract any "helpful" advice to move to the other class. Honestly, I'm sure the others were trying to be helpful--it's just that sometimes we let our own sense of right get in the way of tact.

[Lilac]

Oh, they were totally trying to be helpful. I just didn't know if I did something wrong or not allowed.

The people in this ward are very nice and friendly.

I guess I'll try to use the nice study guide I bought in Utah and look at some of the links you posted.

Religion really is like a language. When you grow up in a bilingual house, it's really easy. Learning a second language at an adult age is hard.

Maybe us Christians might need to rethink this a bit when dealing with converts? I know I have.

[beefche]

You should check out those links on the "Discussions of" the various books. Professor of ancient religion, texts, history sit around the table and discuss whatever book it--from a doctrinal, historical, etc. standpoint. I find them enjoyable.

[MorningStar]

Yes, Gospel Doctrine is one place, but we believe very strongly too in personal and family study. We are encouraged to read all of the scriptures cover to cover. :) Awesome to hear about your investigation of the church.

[mnn727]

I guess I feel a bit frustrated about this? I've been told to read this long book with really no formal guidance and I'm supposed to make sense of it all on my own?

Actually, yes --- however there are plenty of study guides available, and as others have said we go through a 4 year rotation on scrpture in the Gospel Doctrine class.

Since you been going to the Gospel Principles class for about a year, you've probably been through the entire book. From what you have said about wanting to study scripture, I would say its time for you to go to Gospel Principles. This January we'll be starting a year long study of the New Testament.

I'm sure whomever said you were in the wrong class was trying to helpful, there is no rule as to which class you must be in, but it is helpful to go through the Gospel Principles manual as it really does teach you our beliefs.

God does expect scripture study to be a life long pursuit of all his children as it says in the BoM "Feast upon the words of Christ" (2 Nephi 32:3) We encourage all members to study scripture daily individually and as a family.

Has anyone introduced you to the online Church catalog? You'll find study guides and a whole bunch more there.

LDS Online Store - Welcome!_

Edited November 29, 2010 by mnn727

[applepansy]

Oh, they were totally trying to be helpful. I just didn't know if I did something wrong or not allowed.

The people in this ward are very nice and friendly.

I guess I'll try to use the nice study guide I bought in Utah and look at some of the links you posted.

Religion really is like a language. When you grow up in a bilingual house, it's really easy. Learning a second language at an adult age is hard.

Maybe us Christians might need to rethink this a bit when dealing with converts? I know I have.

You didn't do anything wrong. Gospel Principles is the class for new converts, investigators and those returning to church after being inactive for a long time. That's the only reason you were taken to that class. The reason we start with Gospel Principles is that it will give you a good start in learning what the LDS beliefs are on all topics relating to the LDS faith. There is a manual for students and teachers, they are the same. Its a good basic principles manual. Its worth studying by all.

Gospel Doctrine is a class where those who have been around longer are suppose to discuss in depth the scriptures as directed by the lesson manual. This can be a good class or not, depending on two things....the teacher (how well they are versed in scripture) and the class (how well they speak up and interact.)

Since you have a good background in the Bible, Gospel Principles is probably the best place for you. As far as indepth scripture study you could ask the Bishop if there is a study group in the ward. Some wards have informal groups. They aren't a calling or official class but a group of like-minded individuals getting together.

An adult institute class might be helpful for you also.

Best Wishes,

applepansy

[rameumptom]

The Church meetings are designed to teach the key doctrines and principles of the gospel, not the meat. In the LDS Church over 1/2 the members have joined in the last 15 years, and so there is a great need for basic and consistent teaching in the official Church setting.

Having said that, we encourage members to study the scriptures and teachings at home in a more in-depth manner. In this way, each member can study at their level. There are a variety of resources, including books, blogs, etc., which discuss the gospel on many levels. But the biggest resources are 1. the scriptures themselves, and 2. the Holy Spirit to teach us what we need to understand.

Here at LDS.net, we have forums on scripture study, such as the one on the Old Testament I've worked on all year long:

Old Testament - LDS Social Network Forums

[dahlia]

I can't just get into the groove with the Book of Mormon. It's a lot harder than I thought to just learn something new.

Hi. I am an investigator as well. I found the BOM to be hard slogging and I'm a college prof! I asked my missionaries for a children's BOM, but before they found anything, I found this: Scripture Stories on my own. It's BOM stories, chapter by chapter.

I thought what I needed was to get an overview of what was happening in the BOM, then I could go back and read the actual book. It seems to have worked, and at the very least, has let me understand the service, occasional references in church and from the missionaries better. I hope that helps. Now that I have a copy of Doctrines and Covenants, I don't find them as difficult as the BOM, so there's hope that little by little things will become more clear.

I have a friend who was Catholic and converted about 10 yrs ago. Neither one of us was brought up to read the Bible, but let me tell you, this guy can quote Scripture now! I take that as a sign that one day I, too, will know Scripture well enough to quote chapter and verse!

[Carl62]

It all depends on which class you get the most fulfillment out of. Even though I've been in the church 30+ years, RM, BYU and just about everything else, I actually chose to attend a Gospel Principles class simply because our Gospel Doctrines teacher was just plain lame and boring, went strictly by the book, and didn't know much of how to handle any "deeper" subjects. The Gopsel Principles teacher was very intelligent, had a personality about him and he would go into some VERY deep topics with us, without going over our heads though, and it made the class very interesting. Try different classes and see which ones work for you. There is no class that is off limits to you (with the exception of Priesthood of course) and don't let anyone tell you any different. Good luck.:)

Edited December 7, 2010 by Carl62