Is this the future of Health Care?

[tubaloth]

So my work has been trying to re-do some of the Health Care (not sure how much is to cut costs or how much is because of the government).

Being single I honestly didn't think I would see that much effect me. Last year when I tried to sign up in open enrollment something happen with the computer and it never got me in. Back then if we didn't use our Flex dollars we would get 20% them on our pay check and it would be taxed. Thats what they did.

This year, I knew I would loose the $26 each pay check, but I thought in the end I would have more money. (less expense)

Boy was I wrong.

Our work gives 250 flex dollars. The problem I guess is they have always been calculating out The Companies Cost wrong. Now if I want Health Insurance with a $3,000 deductible 1 Person costs me $65 a month. I have to pay that. I guess now the Company is saying it Costs THEM $315 a month for me to have Health Insurance. They take the $250 of my flex dollars and I have to pay the extra $65.

This is way different then it was before. I'm just shocked. From "making" $52 pre taxes a month, I'm now going to have to pay $65 after taxes each month. If I add Dental (which I haven't had for 2 years) its $17 on top of that.

Even more if I wanted to do the 20% again they don't do that any more!

Is everybody else seeing this, or is my companies just really dumb!

This is me being single, my co-worker is paying $276 a month for a family of 4. (Do the math for a year)

I guess I'm not getting married any time soon. (Unless she is rich).

In the end paying $65 is still cheaper 82 with dental, but I thought having Health Insurance was part of a Bonuses your employer gave you. I guess it isn't that way any more. I was already trying to figure out how often they give raises, Now I can see I want it even more.

[Just_A_Guy]

Is this the future of health care?

No.

Right now, you know you're getting worked over--but you can quantify it into a dollar figure.

In the future, you'll know you're getting worked over, but there'll be no way to measure just how much.

[john doe]

In the end paying $65 is still cheaper 82 with dental, but I thought having Health Insurance was part of a Bonuses your employer gave you. I guess it isn't that way any more. I was already trying to figure out how often they give raises, Now I can see I want it even more.

Not sure what rock you have been living under, but welcome to The Real World. Health insurance IS a perk of the job. How much of the copay they cover and what they choose to offer, however, is up to the employer. Ultimately, somebody has to pony up the funds to pay for rising medical costs. Health insurance isn't one of those endless get-as-much-as-you-can gambles. Someone has to pay, and just like casinos, it's not going to be the insurance company holding the bag. If your company ends up using more than they pay, eventually their premiums will go up to cover the losses, and those premiums will inevitably be passed on to the employees.

$65 a month for a single person working for a company is not bad. I consider it cheap. Currently, my company charges single employees over $107 per month, and that's with a $1,000 deductible. Families pay over $500 per month. Employees do have the option of enrolling in a comprehensive wellness plan, which does cut the premiums down to $47 for single and $417 for families. Dental insurance costs over $11 for a single person, and over $35 for families.

Be happy that 1) your company subsidizes so much of your coverage, and 2) you and your co-workers remain healthy enough to keep healthcare costs so low. It could be a lot worse.

[HoosierGuy]

And this is why we want universal healthcare. So you will not have to worry about paying for it. So you will not worry about losing your home and car to pay for your healthcare.

Wouldn't you rather worry about finding your future "eternal companion" than worry about paying the extremely high cost of healthcare? Wouldn't you rather play with your kids and help them with homework than worry about losing your home to pay healthcare bills?

Universal healthcare is not only right but it's also Christian.

[Just_A_Guy]

And this is why we want universal healthcare. So you will not have to worry about paying for it. So you will not worry about losing your home and car to pay for your healthcare.

Wouldn't you rather worry about finding your future "eternal companion" than worry about paying the extremely high cost of healthcare? Wouldn't you rather play with your kids and help them with homework than worry about losing your home to pay healthcare bills?

Yeah, but I could also get all that by robbing a bank.

[john doe]

And this is why we want universal healthcare. So you will not have to worry about paying for it. So you will not worry about losing your home and car to pay for your healthcare.

Wouldn't you rather worry about finding your future "eternal companion" than worry about paying the extremely high cost of healthcare? Wouldn't you rather play with your kids and help them with homework than worry about losing your home to pay healthcare bills?

Universal healthcare is not only right but it's also Christian.

Who do you think would end up paying for universal healthcare? Is there some magic healthcare god who just pulls money out of his backside to pay for everyone's medical bills? Where does government get the money to pay for all this 'free' healthcare you want to give away? And what makes you so sure the government is the right entity to control costs? Remember, this is the same government that pays $2500 for toilet seats, and $400 for hammers. And you think they're going to reduce costs once choice is removed? You can't really be that naive, can you? Eventually the Chinese are going to want a return on their investments, and someone is going to get stuck with the bill. If you think the little guy won't be paying a good portion of it, There's a big shiny bridge in San Francisco I can sell you cheap.

As for your last point, I would like to see a reference to back that up. Sure, Jesus healed the sick for free and even raised the dead without monetary charge, but I don't remember reading where He insisted that the Roman government should foot the bill to heal everyone.

[NeuroTypical]

And this is why we want universal healthcare. So you will not have to worry about paying for it. So you will not worry about losing your home and car to pay for your healthcare.

Yeah, because we never worry about how we're going to pay for all the spending the government does in our behalf. Once they take something over, it's as good as free. Right?

Oy.

Universal healthcare is not only right but it's also Christian.

No it isn't, and no it isn't. Rights are about things we're able to do, and things other people are not able to do to us. Rights are not about things other people have to do for us. And mandating or forcing people to do things is not Christian.

LM

[HoosierGuy]

Who do you think would end up paying for universal healthcare? Is there some magic healthcare god who just pulls money out of his backside to pay for everyone's medical bills? Where does government get the money to pay for all this 'free' healthcare you want to give away? And what makes you so sure the government is the right entity to control costs? Remember, this is the same government that pays $2500 for toilet seats, and $400 for hammers.

The cost of toilet seats was for the space shuttle. I would hope they have the best toilet seats considering how dangerous going up in a big rocket full of explosives is.

Of course all of us will pay for the universal healthcare. And why is the government the right entity? Look where we are at now! Sure, there are Canadians and British who say their healthcare system has problems and it's not perfect, but they would not give it up for the U.S. system.

[HoosierGuy]

No it isn't, and no it isn't. Rights are about things we're able to do, and things other people are not able to do to us. Rights are not about things other people have to do for us. And mandating or forcing people to do things is not Christian.

LM

Tell that to tubaloth. Tell that to the 50 million uninsured Americans.

[Just_A_Guy]

That fifty-million number is an out-and-out lie. We've had this discussion before. The real number may be somewhere around 30 million, and given that Medicare/Medicaid pick up the truly poor (up to 150% of poverty level, IIRC)--most of those thirty million are people who could afford coverage, but don't need it at this point in their lives.

To the people who conceived, wrote, and understand the legislation, Obamacare was never about giving medical care to people who weren't getting it. It was about trying to financially stabilize the health programs we already had (Medicaid, Medicare, county health clinics, etc) by forcing people who generally don't need health care at this point in their lives to pay into the system anyways.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[Vegemighty]

Universal Healthcare could work, but it would need cost controls to go with it. Japan has a huge book stating exactly how much they can charge per procedure, and it is cheap. Otherwise the doctors will just charge the insurance companies more and more. I like what John Stossel said about health care best however.

[NeuroTypical]

Tell that to tubaloth. Tell that to the 50 million uninsured Americans.

Well, I thought I communicated this notion rather effectively in the last election, but don't worry, I intend to send another message in 2012 as well. But ok, if you want to see it in print, here you go: Hey all uninsured Americans: Health insurance is not a right. And forcing people to give it to you isn't Christian.

Tell me HoosierGuy, what the point of this exercise is supposed to be?

LM

[mnn727]

$65 a month is cheap! consider yourself lucky. I pay $330 for my wife and I.

[Dravin]

Sure, there are Canadians and British who say their healthcare system has problems and it's not perfect, but they would not give it up for the U.S. system.

Nobody is asking them too. I've seen many arguments in the health care debate. I have seen people argue that the Canadian or British systems have flaws and shouldn't be emulated. I've seen people argue that the Canadian or British systems have flaws and should be emulated. I've even seen a few argue those systems are nigh on perfect or horribly broken. I've seen moral arguments pro and con. I've seen economic arguments pro and con.

What I have not seen* is people arguing (at least in the context of US healthcare debate) that the Canadians or British should or must give up the their systems for the U.S. System.

* I'm sure someone somewhere has made that argument but it hasn't been part of the debate.

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

Health insurance is not a right. And forcing people to give it to you isn't Christian.

LM

once there is universal healthcare, everyone will be entitled to it. Semantics.

On a side note: schools, police etc are provided for you and everyone via the govt. Would you like to choose which corporation's armed forced you would like to hire to defend your borders?

Healthcare is a similarly basic, universal requirement for any society. Leaving people out in the cold is not christian.

The reason the american people have been indoctrinated to believe that serve-yourself healthcare is better than a system of solidarity is to generate corporate profits. Have you ever seen the movie Sicko? Really, its an eye-opener.

[Guest]

The reason the american people have been indoctrinated to believe that serve-yourself healthcare is better than a system of solidarity is to generate corporate profits.

And I thank the Lord for that. Because my nice paycheck that is currently paying for my healthcare out of my own sweat comes from a piece of that corporate profit.

Wake up. That's how you pay for healthcare. Help the corporation make a buck so you can demand a nice paycheck from them.

[Dravin]

Healthcare is a similarly basic, universal requirement for any society.

Interesting, someone better inform the history books then as peoples who don't seem to be meeting the requirements are being called societies. I honestly wasn't aware the that the Netherlands/Holland was not a society until very recently. Thanks for the heads up.

[NeuroTypical]

Health insurance is not a right. And forcing people to give it to you isn't Christian.

once there is universal healthcare, everyone will be entitled to it. Semantics.

While we're discussing semantics, I'd like to point out a very important bit of semantics. Consider for a moment, the difference between two things:

Healthcare

Health Insurance

If you had to pick one and only one, which would you choose? No really - think about it for a minute - if you could have healthcare but no insurance, would that be a better or worse choice than having health insurance but no healthcare?

LM

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

And I thank the Lord for that. Because my nice paycheck that is currently paying for my healthcare out of my own sweat comes from a piece of that corporate profit.

Wake up. That's how you pay for healthcare. Help the corporation make a buck so you can demand a nice paycheck from them.

Okay so working for the healthcare insurance companies pays a lot of people's bills, true. Paychecks also derive from many other industries. The problem as i understand it is that the price of care is kept artificially high by generating a shortage of care, thus increasing demand. The extortionate gains -at the expense of the insured- are mostly paid out as dividend to shareholders (who could be anyone in the world), and only partly return to the American economy through wages and taxes.

Dravin, im not entirely understanding what you are saying?

I realise a lot of people feel that self-reliance is a great good and people need motivation to participate in the economic process. I can agree to that much, but im appalled that Doctors Without Borders have to send medical teams to the USA to treat people (with jobs)that cant get the care they need under the current system.

[Dravin]

Dravin, im not entirely understanding what you are saying?

If universal health care is a requirement for a society then without said requirement something isn't a society. Taking that to its conclusion the history books are littered with groups of people who were not, according to your requirement, societies. Likewise as universal healthcare is a relatively recent development in the Netherlands (in comparison to the history of the Netherlands) than the Netherlands were not, until recently a society as they did not meet your requirement for being such.

[MorningStar]

I pay $500 a month just for me. My husband was covered 100% by his company, but we couldn't afford to put our kids on our plan, so they're on state insurance. Would love to say this will be their last year on it, but probably not. Hardly anyone takes the medical coupons. Only reason their pediatrician accepted it was because they were existing patients.

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

Dravin,

requirement for society - requirement of society. to me it's semantics (i put it wrong, i agree).

Bottom line, countries with blanket healthcare are generally healthier (wiki life-expectancy per country), and the insured are better off fincancially too. Im not scared of paying someone elses bill today, while im young and healthy. In the long run, everyone will have their day with the doc, and someone else will pay the doc when im sick.

Anyway i think ive said my piece here. I dont think either of us will convince the other. Can we agree to disagree?

[Dravin]

Dravin,

requirement for society - requirement of society. to me it's semantics (i put it wrong, i agree).

Except plenty of societies don't require it. If they did we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's without even going into historical societies. It's not a requirement of a society, it's something that you feel all societies should be required to provide. It's less semantics and more making sure you are making the point you are trying to.

[HoosierGuy]

Anyway i think ive said my piece here. I dont think either of us will convince the other. Can we agree to disagree?

Unfortunately you are correct. And it's the same all through the U.S.

[mnn727]

The insured are already paying for the uninsured through higher rates due to the hospitals trying to make up for the non-payers.

Right now people without insurance use the ER's because by law they can not be turned away. Get Universal single payer healthcare and these people can go to a doctors office rather than tying up the much more expensive ER's with hang nails or a bad cough.