What Can I do for Him

[DesertGoddess]

I'll try to make this short.

I've been married to my husband for a little over 4 years. We were both married before. Me for just under a year (my ex became abusive). He was married for 5 years and has a child with his ex wife. His child lives in Europe, and his ex wife pretty much uses their child as emotional black mail. I lived over in Europe with him for 2 years before we moved to the U.S. together. (I'm American).

He is a member, and was a strong one. He was Elder's Quorum president before we moved to the states 3 years ago. We NEVER FOUGHT. He was very sweet, and mindful of my feelings. We were best friends, and he adored me.

When we moved to the states, he had to leave his child behind. We thought things would sort themselves out, that he could fly his ex wife and their child out for visits, and all would be well. But he hasn't seen his child since we moved 3 years ago. His ex wife has severe emotional problems, including bipolar disorder, and she is crazy (seen and heard it with my own eyes, it's not just hearsay.) It seems like he's been going down hill ever since we moved to the U.S.

He just changed. A lot. Like he's bitter and angry, he swears constantly. He has a horrible job where he works long hours on a commission only basis. He just finished a masters degree. He is right now as we speak out with friends on a sunday watching a foot ball game at a local restaurant.

I don't even know what to do. We have two young children. He isn't interested in me anymore. He says nothing excites him. He said that he hates church members, and the only reason he's a member of the church is because he knows it's true (He converted at the age of 18).

We had a huge fight a few weeks ago. He kicked our bedroom door in. I had put my older child (2.5 years old) to play in another bedroom with a fan on, so they didn't hear anything, because I could tell an argument was going to escalate. My younger one was asleep and is 3 months old. Things got bad. I told him that I couldn't stand it anymore. He's been making excuses to me for 3 years that he will be nicer and happier once he finishes school. Now he's still just as angry now that he's done, and he says if he gets a good job that he can like himself for, that he will be happy.

But it seems like he now makes up his own rules as far as following the commandments is concerned. He's just so bitter and angry. I find myself so drained because he's never here (he's always working), but when he is home, I'm more upset and annoyed because he so negative, and he isn't interested in nourishing our relationship at all. He just sits on the computer and surfs or watches movies. If I ask him to spend time with me, he either says no or he makes it out like it's a big deal. He still wants me to be all spicy in the bedroom, but because he is never flirtatious with me, or seems excited or interested in me any other time, I just straight up don't want to be intimate with him in that way. Like, I feel like it's only for him, and helping me nourish my spirit everyday and feel loved in other ways is not important.

I want a good LDS home, one where my kids don't see parents on two very different spiritual pages, and feel conflict. I'm just so heart broken, because I do love him, and I'm so frustrated because I know what he was like in our first two years of courting/marriage, and he pretty much has given up on everything.

Anyway, this is turning into a book. But the day he kicked the door in, I told him I just can't do this anymore. He said he will leave, and never come back, and he won't ever see me or the kids again, because he just can't deal with the heart break of losing his family again, and it's easier for him to just disappear. I don't get it. We ended up working things out, but I still feel completely unfulfilled. All I do is pray for him, keep his name in the temple, and try to lead by example. I decided to start finding happiness in being a mother and stop looking for it in my marriage right now. I still have hope in the back of my mind that he will change back into the man I married. But he's overwhelmed with unhappiness because of his job.

Has anyone been through this and made it through and gotten their loving spouse back? Has anyone been the spouse in despair, and had their spouse help them through it?

There's so much more to the story, so much more I could say, but it would take all day for me to type it.

He won't go to counseling with me. My bishop knows everything, and is supporting me the best he can, but he can't do much else other than listen to me, because my husband won't confide in anyone else

I should probably add that moving back to Europe isn't an option, he wants to stay in the states. I know he feels guilt every day over the lack of relationship with his son. Also the custody laws are very different where his son lives, it always favors the mother, and we cannot afford a lawyer to get more custody with his son. Internationally the custody issue is just a night mare.

Edited December 20, 2010 by DesertGoddess

[slamjet]

All I do is pray for him, keep his name in the temple, and try to lead by example. I decided to start finding happiness in being a mother and stop looking for it in my marriage right now. I still have hope in the back of my mind that he will change back into the man I married. But he's overwhelmed with unhappiness because of his job.

Speaking as the guy who was like your husband, I'm not sure of there is anything else you can do. It seems like he's suffering from depression and insecurity. It also sounds like he's trying to get control of something in a life that he perceives as out of his control. He needs to see a counselor, period. Absolutely nothing is going to make him happy. And if he keeps going down this path, it's going to need to turn into you thinking about your children and your welfare over his. Just don't take anything he decides to do as your fault. The choices he makes are his and his alone. And if you don't want to be intimate, then don't. It's your body and not his. But if he ever threatens or harms you, get out that same hour.

If he's adamant that he will not seek counseling then try to get him to speak to your Bishop or Stake President. He needs to speak to someone and start to learn how to live in his own skin. But I will recommend that you speak to your Bishop. But please look out for yourself and your children.

[Suzanne627]

I have nothing to add other than that I am sorry for your suffering and despair.

There is a book out called something like "365 days- no excuses". It is about a couple that was on the verge of divorce and were completely miserable. They made a pact to have sex every day regardless of how much they hated eachother or what stress they were under. You said that your husband still wants you to be "spicy in the bedroom", I see that as a good sign. Some may disagree with me, but maybe just provide for him daily and hope that he comes around? Mayve it will start to drag him out of his hole of misery? Men sometimes need that chemical rush. Just a thought that you could try.

[mightynancy]

It sounds like depression to me, too. I'm a big believer in medication. If he won't see a counselor, will he see his physician? If he has trouble sleeping (sleeps too much or can't sleep - common in depression), maybe his doctor will see through it and get him on some medication. If you know the doctor, you may be able to talk to the doc ahead of time and give him a heads-up.

[Gwen]

my opinion, based on some personal observances of something similar, the issue is how he defines himself as a father and how he defines his family. the church is very hard on men that don't step up as dad's, divorce is looked down upon. he probably feels like a failure for the divorce, having his child from that marriage there makes him feel like his family is complete. now that's gone, he's a failure on several fronts now. your family without that child isn't enough. yall are not complete. until he learns to see himself differently. see that he's not a failure (unless he lets yall down too) that you are a family and complete without the other child (that does not mean he doesn't love his first child) nothing will change. you can't decide how he will see himself. he needs a wake up call, whatever you feel that needs to be.

[sweetiepie]

My husband went through a similar phase for 3 years off and on. The worst was during our last pregnancy (baby is now 1). Some guys get so stressed over jobs, another child coming, having to provide, having no time for themselves, sometimes they just check out. For a little while, it is ok, even understandable, but not 3 years.

I know how hard it is, how unworthy you feel, how it makes you feel like he doesn't love you anymore and that you are dragging him through life. And its not fair. It got to the breaking point like yours and I said that he needs to go stay at his mom's until he decides to get some help. I was tired of him being unhappy, snappy, yelling at the kids, acting like he has to do his duty. And you don't have to have sex with him if you aren't emotionally connected. How can we feel sexy when they act like we aren't worth anything anymore. I know they don't mean to, but its how it makes us feel. And for heaven's sake, you just had a baby 3 months ago! It takes time for a woman to get things spicy back in the bedroom after a baby, especially if you are nursing.

Anyways, long story short, he was only gone one night. However, during that night I was crying in bed, and asked the Lord to take away my hurt, pain, resentment, bad feelings. The next morning my heart was healed. I have never had that happen. I saw my husband in a new light, as a struggling son of HF.

He also had something happen to him as well, because he got an appt with a psych and got on some antidepressants.

That was a miracle for us, he is back to his sweet, kind, loving, patient self. I had to let go of my hurt, and he made his way out of his black cloud and saw his wife through it again. Our love life is getting back on track (really good actually :), and he has gotten a raise and promotion at work.

So, in all, I am saying I understand how you feel and that this hurts so much. You can set your ultimatum with him, whatever you think you can handle, and heal yourself. That is all you can do. Your husband needs to fix himself, you can't. If he isn't willing, then yes, maybe he does need to leave for a while, so you can heal and take care of your babies. But don't have him leave during a fight, just as a wife who needs her husband to find himself again, but can't take living with a stranger who isn't willing to get help. Let him know that you love him and will be home waiting for him when he gets back (physically and emotionally)

[rameumptom]

I suggest you sit down with him and have a calm talk. Explain to him that when you married him, you both had expectations of one another. You expected him to remain faithful to his covenants and to treat you wonderfully, regardless of his inner turmoils, etc. You also need to hear what his initial expectations were back then (not now, if they've changed).

If one or both people in a contract suddenly choose to ignore or not follow parts or all of a contract, it creates huge issues. The contract is in place to ensure that all parties know what to expect from one another.

That said, you need to do a couple things.

1. Renegotiate the initial contract. Let him know what your minimum expectations are, and for him to share what his are. If both can agree upon this, then you can establish a new contract. Get this one in writing, so there is not arguing later over what should be in it. Do not create a Mosaic Law contract. Keep it simple and based upon loving principles.

2. Have him seek help for his anger. It should not have continued for such a long time. He needs an outlet and a way to release it, and that should not be at your expense. A stress therapist may work wonders in teaching him to handle stress and relax.

3. Both of you write down your deepest desires regarding each aspect of life: religion, social, economic, place to live, education, etc. Then share with each other. Try to accomplish what is possible for one another on the lists, so your lives feel more accomplished and fulfilling.

If he is willing to do these things, you will be able to fix many of the issues going on and redevelop a wonderful marriage and life. Allow him to be frank about his feelings, but not to BS you with symptoms, rather than the real things bothering him. Why does he really hate the Church right now? Are people really being annoying to him, or is something out of balance in his life that he's choosing to blame on the gospel, instead?

Many times our lives are terrible when we want things our own way, rather than turning towards the Lord.

A naval story goes as follows:

A battleship is traveling in the fog. It spots a light in the distance. The captain gets on the radio and tells the other vessel to move 15 degrees to the left to avoid a collision.

The radio crackles for a moment, then a man's voice responds, telling the captain he cannot do so, and tells the captain to turn 15 degrees to the right.

Enraged, the captain says, "I am the captain of a United States battleship! Turn 15 degrees to the left, or be prepared to be destroyed!"

The response quickly returned, "I am a lighthouse. Turn 15 degrees to the right, or you will ground yourself on the rocks."

It may be that your husband is trying to be a captain of his own ship, but unwilling to turn it gently one direction or the other in order to adapt peacefully and happily. We do not want to see him end up wrecking his ship (life) by going aground.

[DesertGoddess]

Thanks Everyone. I will clarify a few things.

We don't have family around. At all. His family lives in Europe. Mine live 10 hours away, and it's not an ideal situation where I could go stay with my parents for a while.

He will not get medication. He will not see a counselor. He will not talk to our bishop.

He doesn't hate the church. He just says he hates church members. He says his job has shown him that people are pretty much worth nothing, and he has no desire to make friends, or even be involved socially with the church. He works most sundays, so he says that since he can't keep the sabbath day anyways, and sundays pretty much don't apply. I confronted him this morning about going, out, and he told me to stop micromanaging him and trying to control his every move. He called me "Holier than thou."

I have talked to him. Many times. So much that I think it's starting to push him away from me. I don't blame myself for his distancing, but I think that I'm not helping his self esteem right now.

I think he needs medication for sure. 200 percent. I've told him several times that he seems like he suffers from anxiety. He doesn't sleep well. He tosses and turns.

I have tried being intimate with him more often. All it does is leave me feeling empty, and he is right back to his moodiness the next day. He says he fought for his first marriage for so many years, and he has no fight in him, he will not fight for our relationship. He also does not agree with separation, he says if he goes, he goes, because he's already been through this before.

I know I probably sound like a broken record. But I don't know whether to ignore his short comings as far as the commandments goes, and his spiritual weaknesses. He told me today that it's a process. I told him it frustrates me because he obviously is aware of his behavior and choices, and he said he is, but he pretty much just doesn't feel like changing right now.

I feel so lost. I was so hopeful that when he finished school he would be nicer. But he's still just as miserable, or finds anything to be upset and angry with. I can't even stand to drive in the car with him because all he does is nit pick every person on the road. Or in public he says something bad about every person he sees.

I don't live my life that way. I try to focus on what I can control, and not what I can't and I put all my energy into my family and the people who matter. That's why it is breaking my heart that my husband is so unhappy no matter how hard I try. All I do is because of righteous desires. I don't want to be holier than thou, as he put it. I just want a righteous latter day saint home. I don't believe in picking and choosing what commandments or guidelines we follow. Neither does he. He's an all or nothing kind of guy, he always has been, and since he works most sundays, I just seem to see the nothing part, as far as the gospel is concerned.

[virtue]

Only he can save himself, you can pray and miracles do happen. I have been where you are. My now Ex was in the bishopbric, stake presidency, and was the Stake Mission Pres when he left me for a co worker. You need to prepare for the worst and protect yourself and children. You are with an emotionally retarded man at his time, meds may not neccessarily help either.

Pray, go to the temple and receive your own revelation. However in no way can you trust him anymore, trust is earned. Whilde you have the choice to blind yourself to these deep and real dangerous propblems and dote out a false sense of trust thatonly adds to the problem. Forget talking to him at this point or communicating whatyou will do if this or that cause it is dangerous to do in is frame of mind. Find a job, get many many friends and a support system and ask your elders to do the same for him. You will need to leave and secure a plan of protection and solvency for you and your family.

Do not make excuses for him and any bad actions. move in with another woman in a room mate situation or move back home if it is safer.

Read D&C 88, be brave. For what does it profit a man to receive a gift when he rejoyces not in the gift? it profits no one.

perhaps he will awake, I'd prepare to make plans of protection and to move forward . So sorry

[LDSVALLEY]

Try reading 7 habits of highly effective families.

As others have said it sounds like severe depression. It makes a huge difference on a persons outlook, and how they view what is going on. The thinking is not rational, everything becomes a reaction to a situation, most often an over reaction. It's hard to care, it's hard to try anything because you expect to fail, you feel hopeless and unable to control your life. You can be sitting and feel anger building for no reason. You don't want to do anything that requires effort. Hence the separation from activity.

I can tell you a new job, more education, new hobbies, new diversions will not help except maybe in the short run. Your view of the world is skewed and out of focus.

Last year I could barely deal with my kids arguing, but I spent a good deal of time arguing with my wife! I was either sleeping for hours or not at all. Church was a chore, home teaching went from me being almost 100% every month to 0%, I still am only at around 50%.

This year we had to refinance our debt to avoid potential bankruptcy, the company I work for is closing its doors in 2-5 months, we've had over $7000 in unexpected expenses which drained our emergency funds. My wife and kids have told me several times they are amazed at how well I am dealing with life, I carry on with the kids, I am not worried about what's to come and am preparing every needful thing to be as ready as I can.

The difference, I finally realized I needed help. I finally decided I needed professional help. I finally decided I needed to get medication.

The amount and quality of sleep still have a direct effect on how well I deal with life. But now I can feel the difference, and with the help I have tools to deal when I start sliding.

My wife and I have found that the 7 habits book helps us remember how to communicate and to view what the other is going through so we can deal with the issues being created.

Hope it helps.

[DesertGoddess]

Pray, go to the temple and receive your own revelation. However in no way can you trust him anymore, trust is earned. Whilde you have the choice to blind yourself to these deep and real dangerous propblems and dote out a false sense of trust thatonly adds to the problem. Forget talking to him at this point or communicating whatyou will do if this or that cause it is dangerous to do in is frame of mind. Find a job, get many many friends and a support system and ask your elders to do the same for him. You will need to leave and secure a plan of protection and solvency for you and your family.

Do not make excuses for him and any bad actions. move in with another woman in a room mate situation or move back home if it is safer.

I personally don't feel that he has done anything to warrant me leaving him. He's never laid a hand on me. He's not drinking or doing pornography, I am 100 percent sure of this. He's just angry and depressed. He kicked a door in during an argument. I'm not making excuses for him. I realize that his actions are not always kind, and obviously I am frustrated or I wouldn't have posted here.

While I appreciate the advice above, and I know it was from the heart, it's not a dangerous situation. Most days he is just quiet, tired, and acts upset. He does not call me abusive names, he is never mean to our children.

I don't think anything is at the point where I need to flee. He also told me that he would hurt himself before he ever hurt me physically. Not healthy, but at least he communicated that to me.

He is depressed, I completely agree with the other posters who have been kind enough to share their personal experiences. He told me yesterday that he feels like what he's doing isn't working, and he needs a change. I talked to him about medication in a nonchalant kind of way, and he said that doesn't "fix" the problem it just masks it. I do agree, but I think medication is a great tool to use if you are willing to heal your self inwardly through therapy, reading and applying a book, or whatever you choose. Unfortunately he will not do either.

He needs a different job, full stop. A commission only basis in this economy is just not cutting it. He feels like a failure, as a man, as a provider. We don't have enough right now, and that is really beating down on him.

Do I think that he could be happy despite all of this? Absolutely. Do I think if he got a priesthood blessing and got more involved in church he would feel better? Absolutely. He hasn't paid our tithing this year, and he isn't able to attend much church because of work. That is where the change took place in him the most. Yes he seemed a bit sadder and different after he had to leave his child behind upon moving to the states, but it was never this intense. His depression definitely deepened upon losing a good job, and getting this one. He is in the process of looking for a really good job, since he now has a masters.

Time will tell. But I'm not ready to give up or leave yet. Because I know how wonderful my husband is when he isn't stressed like this. And we had 2.5 years together where we were blissfully happy and doing what was right in the gospel as a couple. If he was a depressed and abusive person at heart, it definitely would have showed when I was living on my own in a whole other country with him, alone, away from my family for 2 years.

Any suggestions or encouragement is still very appreciated. I would like to support my husband through this process of making some huge life changes, and finding happiness again. While I know ultimately he has to make the internal change..... I still know that as an eternal partner, my marriage is still save able.

Thank you.

[sweetiepie]

Thats great, DesertGoddess, you are doing exactly what you are supposed to do. I think the advice posted by virtue was meant well, but she has some emotional scars, and is very protective of herself because of what she went through. It doesn't sound like you need to be that protective at this point. But don't be afraid to need space if your husband is continually dragging you and the kids down, completely ignoring your needs, and refusing to get help. If that goes on long enough, trust me, it is more damaging...you get resentful, hurt, and your relationship falls apart.

I think in a weird way it is enabling him to continue to act that way, and not having a reason to get help. So, set your own limits. Good luck, you are being a wonderful, caring wife to your husband right now.

[MichaelCraig]

Sometimes I think when we've done all we know to do to make our spouses happy and I mean EVERYTHING... and it still doesn't work, then it is my personal feelings that maybe, just maybe, Heavenly Father is allowing this to happen to force us to focus on Him and to strive to have a close relationship with Him like we should have all along. Of course we can't have the intimate part with Him but we can have much of the other parts of a relationship with Him. Talking to Him in prayer, telling Him our problems, going to Him for guidance and just plain telling Him we are done, finished trying it on our own because nothing works and actually makes things worse sometimes. Turn it all over to Him, every bit of it, then pray. I strongly feel that until we can have a close serious relationship with Heavenly Father, we cannot have a relationship with anyone else. Not one that will last and work right any way. With Him in our heart He helps us with the understanding, compassion for the spouse without guilt, He shows us what "real" love is. I will keep you in my prayes and wish that you would do the same for me because for the past few yrs my marriage has been real hard and it has taken all I can do on several occasions to not pack my bags and walk out but I pray for strength and He provides it, I then take it one day at the time. The trick to all of our relationships lasting and being good is Him, we MUST have Him right in the center of it at all times. God bless you and keep praying.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I agree with what others have said about your husband suffering from depression. He likely feels the trials he is enduring are too much for him to bear. My present place of employment can be miserable at times and I have found myself slipping into depression in the past. It is only holding onto the LORD that has kept me going thru hard times.

Keep praying and holding onto the LORD. Obey the commandments and follow the Prophet with exactness. Ponder your present situation and seek answers to your problems in the scriptures. The Book of Mormon gives me answers. I apologize if what I have said sounds like a typical Sunday school answer.

[Elphaba]

and he said that doesn't "fix" the problem it just masks it. I do agree, but I think medication is a great tool to use if you are willing to heal your self

I just wanted to piont out that sometimes medication, I'm speaking specifically of anti-depressants, does fix the problem, and is not a mask. This is true when the brain's chemisty is imbalanced.

I have no idea if this is true of your husband, but whenever I hear someone say medication only masks the problem, that tells me s/he doesn't truly understand how debilitating chemical depression can be, and that, sometimes, it is simply a matter getting on the right meds. without further counseling or any other supportive therapy.

More often, supportive therapies are also needed, but the problem is still a chemical imbalance.

As you said, the medication can be a great tool, and I think he would benefit from seeing a psychiatrist, whether it's a chemical imbalance, or not, though how you get him to do that, I don't have a clue. But it does sound to me as if the situation is perilous for all of you.

In fact, I would suggest you seek counseling for yourself to learn how to best cope with this.

Elphaba

Edited December 30, 2010 by Elphaba

[Gramajane]

There is a GREAT free online counseling help-! It can be anonymous!

It has helped me and helped me see things differently.

You can't change others but only yourself, but MAYBE he would

check out "The Work" site- it is by Byron Katie, and when I needed help, "coincidentally" (NOT!)

there was a woman counselor I could connect to in just a few minuets! We talked on the phone.

There are four main questions and a turn around.

You can see videos of others doing "the work" and see how it helps so you get the idea.

I hope you can get him to check it out! God bless you both, Ill be praying!