Section 89 Question about Conspiring Men

[Guest mormonmusic]

I was wondering if anyone knows what the "conspiring" men portion of this section of D&C means, along with the prescription that all wine be made by our own hands.....taken from D&C 89:

4. Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

{i realize we don't drink wine anymore, not even when we assemble together, I'm more interested in the question I posed above}

[pam]

Marlin K. Jensen

In 1997 Elder W. Eugene Hansen and I were asked to host the Honorable Michael Moore, attorney general of Mississippi, during a brief visit he made to Utah and Church headquarters. In a wide-ranging conversation with Mr. Moore, Elder Hansen and I raise questions about the lawsuit he had filed against the large American tobacco companies on behalf of the state of Mississippi. We knew Mississippi had recovered a sizable judgment and that other states, including Utah, were then undertaking similar action. We asked him specifically upon what legal theory the state of Mississippi’s claim had been based.

Much to our surprise, Mr. Moore informed us that the state’s cause of action had been based on a theory of “conspiracy,” which the evidence eventually conclusively showed existed among the tobacco companies and even among their lawyers. As Mr. Moore talked of his conspiracy theory and the efforts made by the tobacco companies to hide from the public the addictive and harmful effects of tobacco, my mind almost instinctively turned to section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants. A copy of that book of scripture was quickly located, and after briefly explaining the background and import of section 89, I asked Mr. Moore to read verse 4.

We listed attentively as he slowly and deliberately read that verse out loud in his appealing southern accent: “Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation” (italics added).

The scriptural reference to “conspiring men” was not lost on Mr. Moore. As he finished reading verse 4, a broad smile came across his face, and with a twinkle in his eyes he said, “I never dreamed in visiting Utah I might find 10 million people who would agree with my conspiracy theories!”

My heart burned within me that day and has many times since as I have thought about Joseph Smith’s gifts as a prophet and seer. (Out of Obscurity, The LDS Church in the Twentieth Century, [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 2000], p. 9)

[Suzie]

The conspiring men are those who used any means to try to kill Joseph Smith, in one occasion they poisoned him so badly that caused his jaw to be almost completely dislocated. The church started using water in sacrament long before the word of wisdom was given because of this conspiring men, it makes sense if you think about it, it's easier to try to disguise poison in wine than in water.

[pam]

Another quote by Heber J. Grant concerning this:

Evil and designs! Men hired to certify that cigarettes do not injure them and never have done, and I have been told that when you challenge some of them regarding these things they say, “Of course they never hurt me, because I have never used any of them.”

In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days

Don't you think it is evil and conspiring to publish pictures of beautiful women, using cigarettes, knowing as they do that it destroys the very purpose of life? We have been warned against these things. A billion is beyond my comprehension, and yet, if I am not mistaken, on an average of 117,000,000,000 cigarettes per year were used over a period of many years in the United States. (Conference Report, October 1935, 8.)

[Guest mormonmusic]

The conspiring men are those who used any means to try to kill Joseph Smith, in one occasion they poisoned him so badly that caused his jaw to be almost completely dislocated. The church started using water in sacrament long before the word of wisdom was given because of this conspiring men, it makes sense if you think about it, it's easier to try to disguise poison in wine than in water.

I used that interpretation in a class lately, and was refuted by a long standing member who disagreed violently with that interpretation -- sounds perfectly fine to me, though....

[Suzie]

I used that interpretation in a class lately, and was refuted by a long standing member who disagreed violently with that interpretation -- sounds perfectly fine to me, though....

Why he/she disagree?

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW, the Church kept using wine in its sacrament meetings at least through the 1890s. The founders of St. George and surrounding communities visualized the region as a producer of (among other things) winegrapes.

[bert10]

A Good example of Conspiring men that ...are the TOBACCO CEOs Who swore in court that Cigarettes were not harmful to our health.

Others are the CEO of Multi nationals Corporation who exploit the Earth and Sea without regard to the damage they do to the environment. Other example....Hitler, Emperor of Japan [counselors] Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin etc

bert10

I was wondering if anyone knows what the "conspiring" men portion of this section of D&C means, along with the prescription that all wine be made by our own hands.....taken from D&C 89:

4. Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

{i realize we don't drink wine anymore, not even when we assemble together, I'm more interested in the question I posed above}

[Guest mormonmusic]

Why he/she disagree?

I don't know. I asked him to share what was on his mind. I always respond to expressions of passion in body language from the class and he was violently shaking his head after I said I thought one reason might be to prevent the congregation from getting sick due to tainted wine -- but he deflected my invitation, pointing to someone else who had a comment to make. Therefore, I can only speculate:

a) Perhaps too deep for Gospel Essentials? (I usually just react to what's happening to the class on impulse, so if this was a faux pas, oh well...)

b) Not consistent with his study/understanding of history?

c) Personal beliefs yet unshared?

Also, do you have a source on the poisoning attempt on Joseph Smith's life? Anyone? I don't have the History of the Church or even know where to look for such stuff -- I don't remember seeing it in Truth Restored ages ago, and don't even have a copy of that book any more. I'm certainly not questioning it, but would like to read about it.

Edited December 21, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Wingnut]

Big tobacco sounds like "conspiring men" to me.

[MarginOfError]

The conspiring men are those who used any means to try to kill Joseph Smith, in one occasion they poisoned him so badly that caused his jaw to be almost completely dislocated. The church started using water in sacrament long before the word of wisdom was given because of this conspiring men, it makes sense if you think about it, it's easier to try to disguise poison in wine than in water.

I used that interpretation in a class lately, and was refuted by a long standing member who disagreed violently with that interpretation -- sounds perfectly fine to me, though....

Why he/she disagree?

I think it's quite easy for both interpretations to be correct. There's a great clause in there about "that do and will exist." This is one of those great verses that can mean different things to different people in different generations. There's really no need to lock ourselves into a single interpretation.

Ergo, it means that the Word of Wisdom was given to protect us from those who deliberately want to do us harm, as well as protect us from those who would prey on our weaknesses to make a profit.