Vaccines and abortion

[Celestec]

Hello everybody,

I really would like to get your comments and attitudes to the following statements:

"Mormons also refer to the bible in conjunction with the book of Mormon, so the above passages should apply to them also. As well as this, their organisation has made it clear they are against termination of pregnancy, and it is known that MMR, MR, Rubella, Varicella (Chickenpox) and other vaccines contain human diploid cells cultured from aborted foetuses.

The First Presidency, which is the governing body and highest ranking quorum in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has said, "Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day." (First Presidency (Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney), Priesthood Bulletin, Salt Lake City, Utah: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Feb. 1973, p. 1-2.

Clearly, if a Mormon then vaccinates their child with a vaccine containing aborted foetus, this constitutes a contradiction of faith. Their own founder, Joseph Smith, also stated: " Trust in God when sick, and live by faith and not by medicine or poison"

Thanks a lot!

[Celestec]

The mentioned Bible passages in the post above are:

The bible teaches that there are unclean animals and that we are not to put the unclean into our bodies (Deuteronomy 14). – Vaccines are made from blood products and tissue of animals. (Read, ‘The Sanctity of Human Blood: Vaccination $s not Immunization’ by Tim O’Shea for more on this).

Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself; (Deuteronomy 14:21) and hut flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Genesis 9:4) – i.e. you should not be putting anything from an animal or its blood into your body.

What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (I Corinthians 6:19,20) – i.e. your body is a temple which houses the Holy Spirit and so you have to look after it and not pollute it.

'"We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29) – i.e. Vaccination is an artificial invention made by man to alter immune function. The immune system, on the other hand, is a natural function given by God to protect us from disease. Trusting in manmade vaccination is like saying that we think God didn’t make us correctly and that we need artificially ‘boosting’ in order to survive.

In the Book of Wisdom of Sirach (a section of the bible cut out by King James), Chapter 38,: verse 4 " The Lord has created medicines out of the earth and a sensible man will not refuse them." - God did not give us drugs, but He did give us plants and herbs and tells us to use them if we are 'sensible.' To be 'sensible' means to use your own mind and not follow man just because you are told to. This section of the bible was probably cut out because of its reference to natural medicines.

Thanks for all of your replies!

[sweetiepie]

I had a worry over vaccines (general ones, not the flu) when I started having children, but prayed about it and felt good. Using good judgement of course, doctors are a blessing to us. Thank goodness I don't live in a time when children dying of now curable diseases was the norm.

"Lesson 24: Disease Prevention," The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A, (2000), 170

Immunizations Help Prevent Disease

We can protect ourselves and our families from some diseases by getting immunizations. For some diseases we need only one immunization, but for other diseases we may need several immunizations at certain time intervals. Polio is a disease that was once very common. Many years ago a physician-scientist discovered a way to protect people from getting this disease. He developed a polio immunization. People who get the immunization protect themselves from this disease, which once killed many people and crippled many more. In most parts of the world, people can receive immunizations from a health clinic or a physician.

[Celestec]

Thank you sweetiepie for quick response and the quote.

[pam]

Plus I think if the Church had any concern over this they would not have donated so heavily to have children vaccinated.

From money generously donated by Latter-day Saints, the Church recently donated a million dollars to a cooperative effort to immunize the children of Africa against measles. For one dollar, one child can be protected.

Do Not Fear

[Celestec]

Thank you, yes this is true, any other attitudes?

[confuzzled]

Plus if you look at the missionary physical form it asks if the missionary is up-to-date on his/her MMR. Off the top of my memory I'm not sure if it asks about varicella (chicken pox) vaccine.

I for one am extremely thankful for the advances in medicine!!!

[Dravin]

Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself; (Deuteronomy 14:21) and hut flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Genesis 9:4) – i.e. you should not be putting anything from an animal or its blood into your body.

There is no standing prohibition against eating roadkill in LDS Theology. We also eat pork, shell fish, can heat blood sausage, and wear cloth of two fibers.

What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (I Corinthians 6:19,20) – i.e. your body is a temple which houses the Holy Spirit and so you have to look after it and not pollute it.

You are begging the question with your interpretation. Which is fine as far as religious beliefs go but realize not everyone is starting from the same premises you are so if you make those premises inherent in your interpretation you can run into brick walls.

'"We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29) – i.e. Vaccination is an artificial invention made by man to alter immune function. The immune system, on the other hand, is a natural function given by God to protect us from disease. Trusting in manmade vaccination is like saying that we think God didn’t make us correctly and that we need artificially ‘boosting’ in order to survive.

The internet is also artificial. Is your voice and body language not sufficient for communication? By trusting in this man made communication medium are you not saying you think God didn't make us correctly and you need artificial boosting in order to communicate?

I don't think you will find many here agreeing with your conclusions, reasoning or interpretations.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Dravin

[bert10]

Medicine and surgery::::FOR:

Not every LDS has enough faith to heal. Medicine and surgery can allows us to live longer in our sins if God has not appointed that we die at that particular time.

Medicine and surgery can buy us extra time here on the earth. Where there is life there is Hope. We ought to spend it in Repentance until we hear the voice of GOD.

Medicine and surgery ::::CON:

Afflictions and diseases are because of unrepentant-ed sins and are sent to discomfiture us and remove the ease which we have fallen into and remind us that GOD is our GOD and we ought to get back to Him. Medicine and surgery more often than not allow us to put off our repentance and thereby increase our condemnation

bert10

Hello everybody,

I really would like to get your comments and attitudes to the following statements:

"Mormons also refer to the bible in conjunction with the book of Mormon, so the above passages should apply to them also. As well as this, their organisation has made it clear they are against termination of pregnancy, and it is known that MMR, MR, Rubella, Varicella (Chickenpox) and other vaccines contain human diploid cells cultured from aborted foetuses.

The First Presidency, which is the governing body and highest ranking quorum in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has said, "Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day." (First Presidency (Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney), Priesthood Bulletin, Salt Lake City, Utah: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Feb. 1973, p. 1-2.

Clearly, if a Mormon then vaccinates their child with a vaccine containing aborted foetus, this constitutes a contradiction of faith. Their own founder, Joseph Smith, also stated: " Trust in God when sick, and live by faith and not by medicine or poison"

Thanks a lot!

Edited December 28, 2010 by bert10

[slamjet]

Not every LDS has enough faith to heal. Medicine and surgery can allows us to live longer in our sins if God has not appointed that we die at that particular time.

WOW! Medicine and the health profession is a miracle from God for our age. Just like the internet, electronics, cars, etc. Like anything else, there's a bad use for all of it. But the bad should not be used as an excuse for plotting out the good it does. I'm on medication that keeps my brain functioning in a "normal" fashion. I'm tickled pink it's there. And to use the line"well, you don't have enough faith that's why you are still sick" or "medicine is bad because it prolongs our life of sin and makes it less likely we'll make it because we have more time to do wrong" is extremist, a disservice and just plain wrong.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Celsetec,

If you're trying to find an anti-vac person here, you may or may not succeed. I know there are some anti-vac LDS folks. Just not sure if any of them reading this thread or not. There are a couple of herbal/natural medicine folks here. But as you can tell from that thread you originally posted to, things can get heated.

I take it you're on the anti-vac side of things?

Edited December 28, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Celestec]

I am neither on the anti-vac side nor on the vac side.

I am just in the process of taking position here.

So thanks again for your replies!

[slamjet]

I am neither on the anti-vac side nor on the vac side.

I am just in the process of taking position here.

So thanks again for your replies!

Then why did you throw out a statement (without the source, I'd like to know where it came from) with an anti vac view when you could have stated YOUR position, YOUR pros and cons, and asked for others input? What's up with lighting a bonfire?

[Celestec]

Sourcce:

Vaccines: A Religious Contention

So far no position, pros and cons.

Thanks for reply.

[Avrham]

Hello me and my wife don't vaccinate anymore main reason being that my wife is Vegen my 2oldest where vaccinated at my insistance but we stopped after my second child had a severe allergic reaction(on the day)

my 2 youngest are not vaccinated and we will not be vaccinating in the future especially almost all my family(6) are Vegan/Vegitarian except me

Me and my family are a huge oddity at Church especially being vegan and not vaccinating but my wife has told me that there are a few LDS members who are very anti-vaccs I believe one even has a radio show in the States:):):)

[Joette]

My Niece and her husband & 16 month old son are all vegan & LDS.The baby has had all his vaccinations & they go to the Dr for treatment if necessary.They are ultra-careful about what they eat etc & she was warned that she would have an underweight baby as she was not eating meat-well he was 10lbs 2ozs so I guess they got that one wrong.

[Guest saintish]

WOW! Medicine and the health profession is a miracle from God for our age. Just like the internet, electronics, cars, etc. Like anything else, there's a bad use for all of it. But the bad should not be used as an excuse for plotting out the good it does. I'm on medication that keeps my brain functioning in a "normal" fashion. I'm tickled pink it's there. And to use the line"well, you don't have enough faith that's why you are still sick" or "medicine is bad because it prolongs our life of sin and makes it less likely we'll make it because we have more time to do wrong" is extremist, a disservice and just plain wrong.

I didn't read his comment like that, I think he has a valid point. Is it not possible for G_d to cure any desease? Are you so prideful as to not acknowlege that your faith is not perfect?

[MarginOfError]

My Niece and her husband & 16 month old son are all vegan & LDS.The baby has had all his vaccinations & they go to the Dr for treatment if necessary.They are ultra-careful about what they eat etc & she was warned that she would have an underweight baby as she was not eating meat-well he was 10lbs 2ozs so I guess they got that one wrong.

Just out of curiosity, how do they get the kid enough calcium and animal fats? Or are they the variety of vegan that gives their kids cow's milk in spite of their veganess?

[KrazyKay]

My Niece and her husband & 16 month old son are all vegan & LDS.The baby has had all his vaccinations & they go to the Dr for treatment if necessary.They are ultra-careful about what they eat etc & she was warned that she would have an underweight baby as she was not eating meat-well he was 10lbs 2ozs so I guess they got that one wrong.

I was in the opposite position. During my pregnancy with my daughter, I kept craving chinese food and bean burritos with no onions from Taco Bell - that one was very specific, not any bean burritos worked, it had to be the ones from Taco Bell. Well, I gained about 70 lbs in that pregnancy and was told my baby would be big - 10lbs at least. My daughter was born at 6lb 12oz.

[Dravin]

I didn't read his comment like that, I think he has a valid point. Is it not possible for G_d to cure any desease? Are you so prideful as to not acknowlege that your faith is not perfect?

The use of modern medicine is not at odds with faith, nor is the only option for not being divinely and miraculously cured of illness because one lacks sufficient faith. I am actually kinda surprised that this talk hasn't been brought up yet: Healing the Sick To look upon one who is ill and declare, "You don't have enough faith as evidence by the fact you are sick and making use of medicine" is rather presumptuous and a jump in reasoning that doesn't follow for LDS.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dravin

[Guest saintish]

I didn't read his comment like that, I think he has a valid point. Is it not possible for G_d to cure any desease? Are you so prideful as to not acknowlege that your faith is not perfect?

I'd like to clairify; my post was in response to the section slamjet quoted, after reading the whole post it is a bit extreme and presumptuous

[Backroads]

Just out of curiosity, how do they get the kid enough calcium and animal fats? Or are they the variety of vegan that gives their kids cow's milk in spite of their veganess?

Clearly they won't be getting animal fats on a vegan diet, buts are plentiful in other foods. As for calcium... eat lots of dark greens and you are good to go.

[Invincible]

I am a convert to this church. I'm impress to know that members don't know that the word of wisdom was given to keep a healthy body without drugs. God created an incredible body system that can regenerate 100% by itself. The parasympatetic nervous system is the repair system. We need only faith as the size of mustard seed to unlock the power of love. Salt kills streptococcus bacteria. Baking soda and lemonade kills cancer cells. God heals all diseases.

Why our Prophet is not concern about vaccines produced with fetuses? Even the catholic church is against it and condemn aborted fetal vaccine manufactures. The abortions are controled putting a clamp on the head of the baby, pull the head down drilling a hole into the babys head and attach a suction machine to remove the brain cells. In other cases a chemical is injected so 50% of the time the baby would be born alive. they would open up the abdomen without anesthesia to extract the liver and kidneys, etc. Pure evil.

All true Christian scientist opt out to vaccines! no wonder the lds church proudly announces that it's the ONLY church with more donations to the Gavi campaign for vaccines produced with fetuses!! No true Christians would do.

Wake up lds Christians, follow jesus and speak out, vaccines help kill children of God. Wisdom is freedom. Love you all.

Medicine and surgery::::FOR:

Not every LDS has enough faith to heal. Medicine and surgery can allows us to live longer in our sins if God has not appointed that we die at that particular time.

Medicine and surgery can buy us extra time here on the earth. Where there is life there is Hope. We ought to spend it in Repentance until we hear the voice of GOD.

Medicine and surgery ::::CON:

Afflictions and diseases are because of unrepentant-ed sins and are sent to discomfiture us and remove the ease which we have fallen into and remind us that GOD is our GOD and we ought to get back to Him. Medicine and surgery more often than not allow us to put off our repentance and thereby increase our condemnation

bert10

[Invincible]

I am a convert to this church. I'm impress to know that members don't know that the word of wisdom was given to keep a healthy body without drugs. God created an incredible body system that can regenerate 100% by itself. The parasympatetic nervous system is the repair system. We need only faith as the size of mustard seed to unlock the power of love. Salt kills streptococcus bacteria. Baking soda and lemonade kills cancer cells. God heals all diseases.

Why our Prophet is not concern about vaccines produced with fetuses? Even the catholic church is against it and condemn aborted fetal vaccine manufactures. The abortions are controled putting a clamp on the head of the baby, pull the head down drilling a hole into the babys head and attach a suction machine to remove the brain cells. In other cases a chemical is injected so 50% of the time the baby would be born alive. they would open up the abdomen without anesthesia to extract the liver and kidneys, etc. Pure evil.

All true Christian scientist opt out to vaccines! no wonder the lds church proudly announces that it's the ONLY church with more donations to the Gavi campaign for vaccines produced with fetuses!! No true Christians would do.

Wake up lds Christians, follow jesus and speak out, vaccines help kill children of God. Wisdom is freedom. Love you all.

Medicine and surgery::::FOR:

Not every LDS has enough faith to heal. Medicine and surgery can allows us to live longer in our sins if God has not appointed that we die at that particular time.

Medicine and surgery can buy us extra time here on the earth. Where there is life there is Hope. We ought to spend it in Repentance until we hear the voice of GOD.

Medicine and surgery ::::CON:

Afflictions and diseases are because of unrepentant-ed sins and are sent to discomfiture us and remove the ease which we have fallen into and remind us that GOD is our GOD and we ought to get back to Him. Medicine and surgery more often than not allow us to put off our repentance and thereby increase our condemnation

bert10

to get your comments and attitudes to the following statements:

"Mormons also refer to the bible in conjunction with the book of Mormon, so the above passages should apply to them also. As well as this, their organisation has made it clear they are against termination of pregnancy, and it is known that MMR, MR, Rubella, Varicella (Chickenpox) and other vaccines contain human diploid cells cultured from aborted foetuses.

The First Presidency, which is the governing body and highest ranking quorum in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has said, "Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day." (First Presidency (Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney), Priesthood Bulletin, Salt Lake City, Utah: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Feb. 1973, p. 1-2.

Clearly, if a Mormon then vaccinates their child with a vaccine containing aborted foetus, this constitutes a contradiction of faith. Their own founder, Joseph Smith, also stated: " Trust in God when sick, and live by faith and not by medicine or poison"

Thanks a lot!

[selek]

I am a convert to this church. I'm impress to know that members don't know that the word of wisdom was given to keep a healthy body without drugs.

I, on the other hand, am deeply impressed that after ten whole minutes as a member of the Church, you have gained enough knowledge and enlightenment to lecture the rest of us about God's "true" intent.

Imagine- after ten whole minutes- you have exceeded all of the knowledge of almost two hundred years of prophets, seers, and revelators; not to mention the medical doctors, scientists, and other learned men and women who swell the Mormon ranks.

Well done.

You, sir, are truly a marvel to behold.