Predicting The Rapture

[Lisa-marie]

doesn't appear so, but neither do we (or I don't anyway)

[bert10]

It was the other way around. The Flood could not come as long Zion was around. Because if Zion was left on the earth...they would have converted the entire earth and the plan of the Lord for His children to experience good and evil would have ended.

The Lord also took away Salem after the flood, under Melchizedek to prevent them also from converting the whole world before the time. Imagine having 10,000 Moses /Elijahs running loose in the world.

In Hebrews chapter 11 Abraham did not just go to Melchizedek to pay tithing...what is written.....that Abraham considered himself a pilgrim on the earth. That he was seeking a heavenly country, even a city whose foundation whose builder and maker is GOD.

Abraham was not permitted to enter into the city and go with Melchizedek and be with the inhabitants of Salem. Abraham recognized their city the builder and maker it was GOD. Instead Abraham was to continue on to His mission to be a father of a multitude of nations and receive The Everlasting Covenant by promises.

As I have said...in the days of the flood it was the wicked that was made to leave. From those days until the days of the tribulations it was the righteous that was made to leave for other lands and countries. But those days are passed.

The ALPHA and the OMEGA are the first and the last and the last shall be first. I am sure you have heard this before.

bert10

This is the second time you said this.

Now I have no idea what others may have written after as I stop

reading at this point to post this ssooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,

if anyone beat me to it I apologize to Him/her:)

The whole city of Enoch was lifted out of here before "the worst of it"

happened.

Noah and his family remained behind to ride out the storm

and they obeyed God which got them through the tempest.

Now, will their be a remnent left behind to ride out the storm and witness

the return of all those lifted out through out history?

[Casper]

I agree with a lot of what prisonchaplain has said the church will go through a lot of hard times with all the rest of the world to the point where the saints as Daniel and John put it are overcome.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7)

I beheld, and the same horn [a King (Dan 7:24-25)] made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (Dan 7:21)

And this will be the cleansing of the saints (D&C 112:24-26) leaving only those that are true servants of the Lord, the very elect of God and they will then build Zion which will be the only true place of refuge from the worst of it. (D&C 45:66-75)

[Jacobi]

I read about this new movement in the Richmond Times-Dispatch a few days ago. I think it's silly, personally But, then, I'm one o' them crazy Jews, so the idea of a rapture at all is lost on me

[bert10]

This relate to the Apostasy of the early Churches. There are holy communities and the Elect are the only ones Jesus said shall not be deceived. Satan gained the power over all kindreds and tongues and nations. As the earth sank again into darkness.

The Book of Revelation contains what would happen to men from the beginning to the end. IF people do not understand this they will continue to miss-interpret the prophecies. Also certain prophecies applies more than once.

As I have said...the tribulations is not for the removing the righteous but exist for the removing the wicked. If God allowed the wicked to destroy all the righteous then when the wicked are removed there would be no one left alive. And translated people would defeat the purpose. For the millennium must continue on with men of flesh and blood. I tell you the truth if a man is not worthy to see Christ right now...He is not any more worthier just because the tribulations have started. The Righteous are overcome at this moment and who is listening to them..do they not call them fools and even Mad today?

For the glory of the Lord is a burning fire...the very same fire that will remove the wicked at the last that will cause even the Elements of the earth to melt and be restored. Again I tell you the truth..if a man is not able to withstand this fire right now...He shall not be able to if the tribulation were to be tomorrow.

bert10

I agree with a lot of what prisonchaplain has said the church will go through a lot of hard times with all the rest of the world to the point where the saints as Daniel and John put it are overcome.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7)

I beheld, and the same horn [a King (Dan 7:24-25)] made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (Dan 7:21)

And this will be the cleansing of the saints (D&C 112:24-26) leaving only those that are true servants of the Lord, the very elect of God and they will then build Zion which will be the only true place of refuge from the worst of it. (D&C 45:66-75)

[NeuroTypical]

We Mormons had a bout of 2nd-coming-itis after the death of Joseph Smith. There are a few accounts of people sitting on their roofs because they wanted to get a good look at Christ as he descended. Brigham Young told them to get off the roof and into the fields because it was planting time.

2nd-coming predictions started shortly after Christ's resurrection and ascention, and they've been going strong since. Strangely enough, there was not a big buzz around 1000 AD, but that's because the people observing that calendar were basically peasants living in illiterate ignorance who didn't know what year it was.

May 21, 2011 is fine with me. Saves me from the trouble of having to pay for two weddings for my little girls.

[JohnnyRudick]

It was the other way around. The Flood could not come as long Zion was around. Because if Zion was left on the earth...they would have converted the entire earth and the plan of the Lord for His children to experience good and evil would have ended. . . .

bert10

Now it is me asking for references:huh:

Zion was surrounded on every side by wickedness just as before the "New Heaven and New Earth will Zion be surrounded by wickedness:o

It is my understanding that

Zion was lifted up because as it was noted that many of the people were cursed by the sins of Cain to a blackness in their heart to where they could not accept the Gospel.

There was a personal Rapture [for those who do not know or understand a person being "Translated"] of those who were in the general population who would accept the Gospel preached by angels but for the most part "they just needed killen'"

In the Beginning

MOS 7:11 And it came to pass that Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were the people of Canaan, to repent;

MOS 7:12 And so great was the faith of Enoch that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spake the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command; and the rivers of water were turned out of their course; and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness; and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch, and so great was the power of the language which God had given him.

MOS 7:13 There also came up a land out of the depth of the sea, and so great was the fear of the enemies of the people of God, that they fled and stood afar off and went upon the land which came up out of the depth of the sea.

MOS 7:14 And the giant offspring of the land, also, stood afar off; and there went forth a beginning of cursings upon all people that fought against God;

MOS 7:15 And from that time forth there were wars and bloodshed among them; but the Lord came and dwelt with his people, and they dwelt in righteousness.

MOS 7:16 The fear of the Lord was upon all nations, so great was the glory of the Lord, which was upon his people. And the Lord blessed the land, and they were blessed upon the mountains, and upon the high places, and did flourish.

MOS 7:17 And the Lord called his people ZION, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.

MOS 7:18 And Enoch continued his preaching in righteousness unto the people of God. And it came to pass in his days, that he built a city that was called the City of Holiness, even ZION.

MOS 7:19 And it came to pass that Enoch talked with the Lord; and he said unto the Lord: Surely Zion shall dwell in safety forever. But the Lord said unto Enoch: Zion have I blessed, but the residue of the people have I cursed.

MOS 7:20 And it came to pass that the Lord showed unto Enoch all the inhabitants of the earth; and he beheld, and lo, Zion, in process of time, was taken up into heaven. And the Lord said unto Enoch: Behold mine abode forever.

MOS 7:21 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam and the seed of the powers of heaven who also mixed with the seed of Cain. But the seed of Cain had no place among that of Adam for that seed was black and could find no place among them.

MOS 7:22 And after that Zion was taken up into heaven, Enoch beheld, and lo, all the nations of the earth were before him;

MOS 7:23 And there came generation upon generation; and Enoch was high and lifted up, even in the bosom of the Father, and of the Son of Man; and behold, the armies of Satan were upon all the face of the earth.

MOS 7:24 And he saw angels descending out of heaven; and he heard a loud voice saying: Wo, wo be unto the inhabitants of the earth.

MOS 7:25 And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.

MOS 7:26 And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion.

----------------------------------------------------

In the End

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old

serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand

years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut

him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the

nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and

after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and

judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that

were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,

neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their

hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until

the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the

first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but

they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with

him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan

shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which

are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather

them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the

sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,

and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into

the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false

prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and

ever.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that

sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;

and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand

before God; and the books were opened: and another book was

opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out

of those things which were written in the books, according to

their works.

[JohnnyRudick]

This relate to the Apostasy of the early Churches. There are holy communities and the Elect are the only ones Jesus said shall not be deceived. Satan gained the power over all kindreds and tongues and nations. As the earth sank again into darkness. . . .

bert10

I understand this way, that the righteous be lifted up in order for the Lord to remove the wicked by harsh judgment from the earth.

Zion is lifted up so that the remaining could be destroyed minus the family of Noah for the beginning of a righteous seed.

At least better then that which had to be removed.

Many here do not believe in a general flood by the way.

I do.

[bert10]

Both Noah and Zion was surrounded by wickedness and violence. And the wicked were afraid of Both. The people of Zion were easy to be recognized by virtue of their garments and when they went out on missions they were given wide berth. Using the bible we know that there were giants in the world and corruption of the flesh. And also that there were much violence in the world. Only in Zion was peace to be had.

The inhabitants were using Giants for protection and attacking other villages..until they became too numerous to control and they turned on the inhabitants.

After the flood, we know that God allowed Satan to give knowledge to men to bring the giants back. In the days of Joshua there were many Giants. By the days of David the giants were almost all wiped out. King Og's bed for example was 9 cubits long and 4 cubits wide. It was said that Goliath was the last of them and that he was small in comparison of his fellows.

This is just from using the bible now imagine when a person listens to the Spirit and reads Enoch and all the other so called lost books of the bible.

I read what you put down from Moses and it does not changed what I said..concerning the Flood not being able to be called as long as Zion was on the Earth.

Do you imagine that the Lord did not have the option of sending all the inhabitants of Zion to preach to the world in power and might of heaven?

Now...remember that there is another great battle to come at the end of the millennium and it is in this battle that the earth is destroyed and dies. But it will be resurrected into a Celestial body. Many have confused prophecies dealing with the last battle with that of the Second Coming.

It took Enoch a long time to prepare the people for translation. There is not one person that was given this gift without first being prepared to receive it.

bert10

Now it is me asking for references:huh:

Zion was surrounded on every side by wickedness just as before the "New Heaven and New Earth will Zion be surrounded by wickedness:o

It is my understanding that

Zion was lifted up because as it was noted that many of the people were cursed by the sins of Cain to a blackness in their heart to where they could not accept the Gospel.

There was a personal Rapture [for those who do not know or understand a person being "Translated"] of those who were in the general population who would accept the Gospel preached by angels but for the most part "they just needed killen'"

In the Beginning

MOS 7:11 And it came to pass that Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were the people of Canaan, to repent;

MOS 7:12 And so great was the faith of Enoch that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spake the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command; and the rivers of water were turned out of their course; and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness; and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch, and so great was the power of the language which God had given him.

MOS 7:13 There also came up a land out of the depth of the sea, and so great was the fear of the enemies of the people of God, that they fled and stood afar off and went upon the land which came up out of the depth of the sea.

MOS 7:14 And the giant offspring of the land, also, stood afar off; and there went forth a beginning of cursings upon all people that fought against God;

MOS 7:15 And from that time forth there were wars and bloodshed among them; but the Lord came and dwelt with his people, and they dwelt in righteousness.

MOS 7:16 The fear of the Lord was upon all nations, so great was the glory of the Lord, which was upon his people. And the Lord blessed the land, and they were blessed upon the mountains, and upon the high places, and did flourish.

MOS 7:17 And the Lord called his people ZION, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.

MOS 7:18 And Enoch continued his preaching in righteousness unto the people of God. And it came to pass in his days, that he built a city that was called the City of Holiness, even ZION.

MOS 7:19 And it came to pass that Enoch talked with the Lord; and he said unto the Lord: Surely Zion shall dwell in safety forever. But the Lord said unto Enoch: Zion have I blessed, but the residue of the people have I cursed.

MOS 7:20 And it came to pass that the Lord showed unto Enoch all the inhabitants of the earth; and he beheld, and lo, Zion, in process of time, was taken up into heaven. And the Lord said unto Enoch: Behold mine abode forever.

MOS 7:21 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam and the seed of the powers of heaven who also mixed with the seed of Cain. But the seed of Cain had no place among that of Adam for that seed was black and could find no place among them.

MOS 7:22 And after that Zion was taken up into heaven, Enoch beheld, and lo, all the nations of the earth were before him;

MOS 7:23 And there came generation upon generation; and Enoch was high and lifted up, even in the bosom of the Father, and of the Son of Man; and behold, the armies of Satan were upon all the face of the earth.

MOS 7:24 And he saw angels descending out of heaven; and he heard a loud voice saying: Wo, wo be unto the inhabitants of the earth.

MOS 7:25 And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.

MOS 7:26 And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion.

----------------------------------------------------

In the End

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old

serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand

years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut

him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the

nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and

after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and

judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that

were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,

neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their

hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until

the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the

first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but

they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with

him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan

shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which

are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather

them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the

sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,

and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into

the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false

prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and

ever.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that

sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;

and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand

before God; and the books were opened: and another book was

opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out

of those things which were written in the books, according to

their works.

Edited January 12, 2011 by bert10

[JohnnyRudick]

Both Noah and Zion was surrounded by wickedness and violence. And the wicked were afraid of Both. The people of Zion were easy to be recognized by virtue of their garments and when they went out on missions they were given wide berth. Using the bible we know that there were giants in the world and corruption of the flesh. And also that there were much violence in the world. Only in Zion was peace to be had.

The inhabitants were using Giants for protection and attacking other villages..until they became too numerous to control and they turned on the inhabitants.

After the flood, we know that God allowed Satan to give knowledge to men to bring the giants back. In the days of Joshua there were many Giants. By the days of David the giants were almost all wiped out. King Og's bed for example was 9 cubits long and 4 cubits wide. It was said that Goliath was the last of them and that he was small in comparison of his fellows.

This is just from using the bible now imagine when a person listens to the Spirit and reads Enoch and all the other so called lost books of the bible.

I read what you put down from Moses and it does not changed what I said..concerning the Flood not being able to be called as long as Zion was on the Earth.

Do you imagine that the Lord did not have the option of sending all the inhabitants of Zion to preach to the world in power and might of heaven?

Now...remember that there is another great battle to come at the end of the millennium and it is in this battle that the earth is destroyed and dies. But it will be resurrected into a Celestial body. Many have confused prophecies dealing with the last battle with that of the Second Coming.

It took Enoch a long time to prepare the people for translation. There is not one person that was given this gift without first being prepared to receive it.

bert10

Strange:confused:

I agree and believe all that you wrote in the above.

It must be a matter of communication and perspective.

I agree, there could not be a flood until Zion was lifted up and out.

Then poor Noah and fam. was left to deal with the wikedness.

Not sure what our problem is but I will leave it as "I agree with you."

Thanks for your patience.

[JohnnyRudick]

. . .

Now...remember that there is another great battle to come at the end of the millennium and it is in this battle that the earth is destroyed and dies. But it will be resurrected into a Celestial body. Many have confused prophecies dealing with the last battle with that of the Second Coming. . .

bert10

Exactly^_^

That is why I headed those particular verses "The End".

The end of the Terrestrial mode of this earth.

[bert10]

I am not speaking of the last battle between the sons of the light and the sons of the darkness at the end of the millennium....In this scenario Zion comes down on the earth. Why because the earth is not destroyed by a flood this time. The verses below will give you an idea on how God will cleanse the earth.

Isaiah 4:4 - When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isaiah 4:5 - And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

Isaiah 4:6 - And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

Nowhere does Isaiah say that the people are to be taken from the face of the earth for the second Coming.

Now I speak plainly here and say that the wicked are the ones which shall be removed. Yes, there shall be earthquakes, volcanoes, poisons, biological, chemical warfare even nuclear wars, plagues and famines etc. There is not anything here that the power of God thru the priesthood cannot deal with.

The Tribulations will take many and they who are left and are still wicked shall not be able to tolerate The SPIRIT OF JUDGMENT AND BURNING OF THE LORD.

The last plague in Egypt....The Lord removed the first born of Egypt while preserving the rest.

So it shall be in the last day...the Spirit of judgment and of burning shall take one and leave the other on the earth.

How close are we?

The filth of the daughter of Zion...what they do is revealed by Isaiah if you read this...remember it when you go to church and see how far off the standards have been lowered.

When I read this many years ago...as a teenager...the woman were dressed very conservatively...(I was Catholic). They had to wear long sleeves and be buttoned up. Their dresses had to be below the knees etc.

Now I can find both women and men fulfilling the following. The Daughters of Zion are the LDS for we call ourselves of Zion.

Isaiah 3:16 - Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

Isaiah 3:17 - Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.

Isaiah 3:18 - In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,

Isaiah 3:19 - The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

Isaiah 3:20 - The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,

Isaiah 3:21 - The rings, and nose jewels,

Isaiah 3:22 - The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,

Isaiah 3:23 - The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.

Isaiah 3:24 - And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.

Just something to think about.

Men are about to become few ...even more precious than a golden wedge of Gold from Ophir. (prophecy of the Lord by ISaiah)

bert10

I understand this way, that the righteous be lifted up in order for the Lord to remove the wicked by harsh judgment from the earth.

Zion is lifted up so that the remaining could be destroyed minus the family of Noah for the beginning of a righteous seed.

At least better then that which had to be removed.

Many here do not believe in a general flood by the way.

I do.

[bert10]

We do not need to have a problem...Nor disagree. we can both express what we know about a subject and let what each has said sink in. And perhaps in time both our viewpoints will be changed so that we can be of one mind on the subject.

bert10

Strange:confused:

I agree and believe all that you wrote in the above.

It must be a matter of communication and perspective.

I agree, there could not be a flood until Zion was lifted up and out.

Then poor Noah and fam. was left to deal with the wikedness.

Not sure what our problem is but I will leave it as "I agree with you."

Thanks for your patience.

[JohnnyRudick]

I am not speaking of the last battle between the sons of the light and the sons of the darkness at the end of the millennium....In this scenario Zion comes down on the earth. Why because the earth is not destroyed by a flood this time. The verses below will give you an idea on how God will cleanse the earth.

Isaiah 4:4 - When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isaiah 4:5 - And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

Isaiah 4:6 - And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

Nowhere does Isaiah say that the people are to be taken from the face of the earth for the second Coming.

Now I speak plainly here and say that the wicked are the ones which shall be removed. Yes, there shall be earthquakes, volcanoes, poisons, biological, chemical warfare even nuclear wars, plagues and famines etc. There is not anything here that the power of God thru the priesthood cannot deal with.

The Tribulations will take many and they who are left and are still wicked shall not be able to tolerate The SPIRIT OF JUDGMENT AND BURNING OF THE LORD.

The last plague in Egypt....The Lord removed the first born of Egypt while preserving the rest.

So it shall be in the last day...the Spirit of judgment and of burning shall take one and leave the other on the earth.

How close are we?

The filth of the daughter of Zion...what they do is revealed by Isaiah if you read this...remember it when you go to church and see how far off the standards have been lowered.

When I read this many years ago...as a teenager...the woman were dressed very conservatively...(I was Catholic). They had to wear long sleeves and be buttoned up. Their dresses had to be below the knees etc.

Now I can find both women and men fulfilling the following. The Daughters of Zion are the LDS for we call ourselves of Zion.

Isaiah 3:16 - Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

Isaiah 3:17 - Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.

Isaiah 3:18 - In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,

Isaiah 3:19 - The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

Isaiah 3:20 - The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,

Isaiah 3:21 - The rings, and nose jewels,

Isaiah 3:22 - The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,

Isaiah 3:23 - The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.

Isaiah 3:24 - And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.

Just something to think about.

Men are about to become few ...even more precious than a golden wedge of Gold from Ophir. (prophecy of the Lord by ISaiah)

bert10

OK:huh:

Thanks for that:cool:

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

We Mormons had a bout of 2nd-coming-itis after the death of Joseph Smith. There are a few accounts of people sitting on their roofs because they wanted to get a good look at Christ as he descended. Brigham Young told them to get off the roof and into the fields because it was planting time.

2nd-coming predictions started shortly after Christ's resurrection and ascention, and they've been going strong since. Strangely enough, there was not a big buzz around 1000 AD, but that's because the people observing that calendar were basically peasants living in illiterate ignorance who didn't know what year it was.

May 21, 2011 is fine with me. Saves me from the trouble of having to pay for two weddings for my little girls.

Don't you wish for the old Jewish tradition where the family of the groom not only hosted the wedding, but actually paid the bride's father? This was usually in livestock or other goods, but you get the picture.

[Traveler]

Don't you wish for the old Jewish tradition where the family of the groom not only hosted the wedding, but actually paid the bride's father? This was usually in livestock or other goods, but you get the picture.

So what would a 1dog wife mean compared to a 7 cow wife?

The Traveler

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

So what would a 1dog wife mean compared to a 7 cow wife?

The Traveler

The size of the gift to the bride's father was a matter of prestige. Wealthy families had more to offer, and the arranged marriages were a way of economically uniting influential clans. One thing is certain; if you had the daughter, you would NOT be paying for the wedding.

[Elphaba]

Am I the only one not amused by the discussion of how many cows a woman used to be worth? Or, that, wouldn't it be great if we just went back to the good ol' days when she was, essentially, her father's, then her husband's, chattel?

I realize that second part is not serious, but frankly, it's seriously creeping me out.

Elphaba

[Traveler]

The size of the gift to the bride's father was a matter of prestige. Wealthy families had more to offer, and the arranged marriages were a way of economically uniting influential clans. One thing is certain; if you had the daughter, you would NOT be paying for the wedding.

Obviously you have not been acquainted with “Mormons” long enough to know about Johnny Lingo

Also one comment about the Tower of Babel - According to Josephus the Tower of Babel was being doctrinally changed in his day and important concepts were being lost. He claimed that Nimrod was building the tower of Babel so that he and all those that pronounced him as their supreme leader would be able to live as they desired and if another flood was to come that they would have a place of refuge.

The Traveler

[Bini]

By the way, for those who saw the Left Behind movie, you may recall that one of the main charcters who was left behind was a minister. He had the head knowledge of Christ, and abided by the Christian cultural norms, but never developed a personal relationship with God. He did all the group stuff, but never made his personal peace with God.

So...who goes? Well...I'm planning on it!

That's kind of a scary thought. Especially for those that may initially be going-through-the-motions (praying, attending church etc etc) and are seeking anwers but do not yet have a testimony of Christ. What becomes of them during this Rapture as they have not made peace with God?

Oh and to OP. The end of this year isn't good timing for a Rapture. Hubby and I are FINALLY taking our long overdue getaway vacation!

[JohnnyRudick]

That's kind of a scary thought. Especially for those that may initially be going-through-the-motions (praying, attending church etc etc) and are seeking anwers but do not yet have a testimony of Christ. What becomes of them during this Rapture as they have not made peace with God?

Oh and to OP. The end of this year isn't good timing for a Rapture. Hubby and I are FINALLY taking our long overdue getaway vacation!

From what I gather having studied out this thing, they become the Saints duration the Trib who will (because of their lat conversion (or were born too late to make a choice) have been blessed with this opportunity, if "hold out till the end" to see Zion coming down out of the clouds to be on the earth from that time and forth for ever:rolleyes:

I do not believe this is too far off the mark:cool:

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

That's kind of a scary thought. Especially for those that may initially be going-through-the-motions (praying, attending church etc etc) and are seeking anwers but do not yet have a testimony of Christ. What becomes of them during this Rapture as they have not made peace with God?

I grew up with this kind of teaching. The hypothetical person went to church all his life, faithfully every Sunday, prayed, tithed, and was always kind to neighbors, animals, etc. But he goes to hell for eternity because he/she never really knew Jesus. I've now come to reject this reasoning as absurd, for I don't believe that nothing except the love of the Lord can compell someone to devote themselves to prayer, church, and other religious observances. Not everyone is expressive and extroverted in their expression of religious faith and Christ's flock consists of teddy bears and grouches both. The ability to openly articulate a testamony of Christ is certainly encouraged within the LDS faith, and I have no quarrel with this practice, but I don't believe one's relationship to the Lord to be predicated upon it.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Obviously you have not been acquainted with “Mormons” long enough to know about Johnny Lingo

The Traveler

Nope.

[Traveler]

Nope.

Just for your info Johnny Lingo was a character in a LDS movie made in the 60’s about a man in a native society. He dearly loved a woman that many thought was worth only one cow. The most anyone had ever paid for a wife was 3 cows. He paid 7 cows for the woman he loved and when it became known that she was a 7 cow wife all the people of that society deemed her very differently - It changed her life and how other viewed her. The moral being that we should look upon all as sons and daughter of G-d worthy of far more that others may see at the time.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

That's kind of a scary thought. Especially for those that may initially be going-through-the-motions (praying, attending church etc etc) and are seeking anwers but do not yet have a testimony of Christ. What becomes of them during this Rapture as they have not made peace with God?

Oh and to OP. The end of this year isn't good timing for a Rapture. Hubby and I are FINALLY taking our long overdue getaway vacation!

There are fundamental differences in how evangelicals and certain Christians view what is called the Rapture from what the LDS understand. Evangelicals teach (Prisonchaplain can correct me if I am wrong) that several years before the second coming - all worthy Christians will be removed from earth and not suffer any of the trials just prior to when Jesus will return. The LDS view is that as Jesus manifests himself in power and great glory - the covenant saints that have remained loyal during the worse of trials will be caught up in the glory of Christ’s coming to meet him in his full glory.

The Traveler