Casper

I could only answer your question in relation to myself. For me my faith is based upon revelation given to me personally. It is not based on the words of any mortal men women family or anything, the spirit of God has told me that Jesus Christ died that I might live eternally, that all people have the opportunity to make use of this gift. I believe that Joseph Smith was called of God and given the authority and power to translate what he translated, and that he translated it from gold plates but I also would not care what it was on or who saw them or if anyone saw them at all. My faith is not built on those things it is built on revelation from the Spirit of God. It is that spirit that leads me to live the life that I have chosen to live, no more and no less. I would hope that helps you understand at least were I am and how I what my faith is based on.

The translating ordinances and blessings that are in the hand book are guidelines for translating from one language to another. The church does not yet have the power in the priesthood of translating people to a terrestrial condition. “All the powers of the priesthood are in the church except the principle and power of translation. That, however, will in due time be restored.” John Taylor (J.D 23:32)

There is often misunderstanding about these churches and who belongs to them. They are not physical churches, they do not have specific buildings that you go to. They are spiritual churches or churches of the heart. Membership in these two churches is determined by the intentions of our hearts, not by anything else. The Lord taught Samuel …for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7 And in D&C 64:22 … I, the Lord, will not hold any guilty that shall go with an open heart up to the land of Zion; for I, the Lord, require the hearts of the children of men. And Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21 When Nephi talks of these two church he says that there are only two churches (1 Nephi 14:10). Nephi is not talking about outward organizations, Nephi saw our day and how many churches there would be and according to Wikipedia there are approximately 38,000 churches that are just Christian, Nephi is talking about two Churches where membership is determined by the desires of our hearts. The members of these two kingdoms or churches are spread among all denominations countries. Some members that belong to “The church of the lamb of God” are also members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints and some in most other denominations. The same goes for the members of “The Church of the devil” they are all over the world; Some in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints and some in most other denominations to. It is all to do with who we love, do we love God or the Devil, good or bad and light or darkness. The true answer to this question will let us know what Church we belong to.

Those people how are mentioned in Mark 13:20 are also members of the church of the Firstborn. (D&C 76:51-58) They have received the oath and covenant of the priesthood then magnified there priesthood and reached the level of translation just as Enoch did (D&C 84:33-35, D&C 76:57) They are then outside the power of Satan like the three Nephites (3 Nephi 28:39) and can’t be tempted, this is why in mark 13:22 it says And in Matthew 24:24 If it were possible they would be deceived or seduced, but because they are the elect of God and outside the power of Satan to be tempted they can’t be deceived. I don’t believe these are the only people that will go to heaven in the last days, by heaven I would think you are talking of the millennium.The elect will be the first ones to move into the terrestrial state in preparation for the millennium in the last days. then they will go out as missionaries for the last time to gather out every one that will follow them from all over the world. (D&C 77:11)

Talking of the rule of Christ in the Millennium Joseph Smith said: Not all people will be resurrected at the same time, and from what Joseph Smith is teaching in this quote the resurrected saints may not even use this earth as their primary dwelling place. I would think then that the Celestials and Terrestrials would have much the same relationship as they do now. The three Nephites have been in a terrestrial state like Enoch for some 2,000 years, they interact with Both Telesteals and Celestials, but we know they don’t live with Telesteals however I don’t believe there is any scripture or authoritative teaching on if they can or even do currently live with Celestials.

In D&C 42:22 we are also told “Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else.” I look at it in the same way as a parent having children, they have one chilled and they love that chilled with all their heart, however when another chilled is bourn they don’t have to stop loving the first as much so they have love left for the next chilled. The ability for the parent to love is increased and they can love as many children as they are blessed with and they can do it with all their heart.

I was reading over the creation in Gen 1 and Moses 2 with both accounts the next chapters say that no flesh was yet on the earth, does this mean that the accounts of the creation in the above chapters are about the spiritual creation. They also mention in Gen1:27-28, Moses 2:27-28 that man was made on the 6th day but it does not mention being made of the dust at that time. It is not mentioned until later in the next chapter of both Gen and Moses when the creation of man is mentioned a second time. Also in D&C 77:12 it says that man was formed out of the dust on the 7th day. So I would like to hear your thoughts on wither Gen 1 and Moses 2 are about the Physical or Spiritual creation.

Baptized twice Does anyone know why the disciples of Ephesus in Acts chapter 19 were baptized again by Paul after being baptized by John the Baptist. Acts 19:1-7

I agree Suzie, if self righteousness cannot be recognised by each of us personally, we have no way of humbling ourselves. That makes me think of the times when our Heavenly Father needs to humble us. But the good side is when we see self-righteousness and non-humilty in others it can help us reflect on how we may be doing the same thing occasionally. I think: Being Righteous is being in-line with the Father's will, as discerned through current revelation/ spiritual prompting. Self-Righteous is adhering to a view of right or wrong according to your own individual judgments (which are often limited or static). Humility is comfort with oneself as you currently are (Carnal & Divine). It's about having Heavenly Father's perspective of you as your prime focus (Not caring what others think about you: Good or Bad) Non-Humilty is self-degradation. It's hiding ones god-given power for fear of appearing prideful or self-aggrandizing.

I believe it was during the Flood, I don’t know of anything that says Noah was in the Middle East; I also don’t believe there is any scripture that will say what continent Noah was on before the Flood. This would leave open the possibility precisely mentioned that they may have walked.

I don’t know who the Elias was that came before Abraham, however I think the Elias that came to Joseph and Oliver was John the revelator. This idea comes from D&C 77:9,14 ` I think it is John that came back to the temple as part of his mission of restoring all things.

I love a lot of what Skousen says, my main problem with his explanation of the Atonement is that in one place he quotes Alma 34:11-12 Then when he explains how the Atonement works it is by Christ sacrificing his own blood to atone for the sins of another. If all the intelligences are moved with compassion or not it is not completely just. I believe it is based on a different principle altogether.

Just a not this got a lot longer then I first expected Where I’m coming from is that I don’t believe the great and abominable church is any specific denomination. There is no denomination that has ever completely fitted the description. In 1Nephi 10:10-12 Nephi describes the church of the devil, that she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations kindreds, tongues, and people. He then describes the church of the Lam of God, its numbers were few as a result of the wickedness and abominations of the church of the devil but it also was upon all the face of the earth. There is no single denomination that has had dominion over all the earth wither for good or evil. I believe them both to be an inner churches or a churches of the heart. The Lord has always need the heart and looked at the heart. When Christ was asked about the Kingdom of God in Luke he replyed The savior is talking about an inner church it is about our hearts, this church is spread over all the world among all nations kindreds tongues, people and also includes some members of the LDS Church. Likewise the church of the devil is made up in the same way spread over all the world among all nations kindreds tongues, people and also includes some members of the LDS Church. With this view I look at anyone that loves the Lord and is committed to live as close as they can to his the amount of knowledge they have belong to the Church of the Lamb of God, and those how do the opisite belong to the church of the devil how is also called by both Nephi and John “the whore of all the earth. Sow my resin for what I said in my other post is that as a member of the LDS Church I believe that the LDS Church is the only church that has the authority of God to perform binding ordinances that are recognize by God, this is a great blessing. When a person is baptized into the LDS Church they covenant to take upon themselves the name of Christ, the same way a women would take on the name of a man she was engaged to marry in the days of Christ. The church is often called Christ’s bride, not married but awaiting the return of the bridegroom to be married. So as members of the LDS Church we are the only ones that can truly make this covenant with the Lord, by virtue of the authorized priesthood that we have, so being a member of the LDS Church and having covenanted to the Lord, to faithfully keep ourselves clean and pure, loving him above all the world, we are counted as worthy brides. But then on the other hand when we make this covenant to love the Lord and keep ourselves for him and then set our hearts on something that is not of him we become the whore, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Because we are the only church that can truly make the covenant we are the only church that can truly break it and become the whore, in its most true and complete way. There are other groups of people that have done things like change parts of the bible and cloud the minds of people to follow after ways that are incorrect, but they never had the power to covenant with the Lord and take his name upon themselves in the first place to become a whore when they break it, I would still count them as members of the church of the devil but that they are not as abominable if that makes sense. I hope this helps to show were I’m coming from

This might be a bit blunt and I would like to know what others think of this but my feelings about who the "great and abominable church" and also know in revelations as “the great whore” and “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.” Is more accurately displayed by unfaithful members the “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints “ more than another denomination.

It is also found in the Book of Mormon Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual, p.160

I have also heard this mentioned many times in the same way and the only place I can think it has come from, is a quote that has slightly changed over the years. And I also do not believe it will be possible to end ones existence completely, I think if intelligence was not created or made it could not be destroyed, it can only be change from one form to another. However I could believe that if one chose to end a life in the spirit world they could be striped back to naked intelligence and lose all memory of the life they had once lived. That last part is completely speculation just an idea, I do find it hard to believe that Heavenly Father could leave any of his children to safer for every without any way to relieve that pain.

We know a lot about the second coming of Christ, it is true that Christ will save the Jew’s and it will be when he puts his foot on the Mount of Olives; this will mark the official second coming of Jesus Christ and the saving of the his people the Jews. I say official because he has returned to the earth a number of times in the way he appeared to Joseph The reason that only the Jews are mentioned in relation to being saved at this point in time is that the other tribes of Israel are already gathered from all nations, they have gathered and built the city new Jerusalem or Zion with its center in Jackson county Missouri; and some of them will go with Jesus Christ when he stands on the Mount of Olives (D&C45)

It has already been mentioned that we only know of two choices that were available in the pre-mortal life. I don’t believe there were any more options than that; however I do believe that spirits chose their side with varying digress of commitment and faith. Abraham was a spirit that was noble a great, as a result of that he was chosen before this life to be a ruler in the kingdom of God, it would seem only logical to me that Satan would have his team of great spirits that went with him. Then both sides would have had those on the opposite end of the scale that only just chose a side without being very committed to the cause. An example might be someone how chose to come to earth and did not want to live by the gospel, or on the other side some one that was not evil but lacked the faith that Christ would complete the atonement so chose to go with satin instead. But in the end this is still really only two options.

Adam had the priesthood given to him in the pre-mortal life so that he could help in the creation of the world. But so did others and they also had to receive the priesthood on earth. I have not found any thing on this topic that is very clear. I do believe that he had hands lady on his head by his father. The priesthood in the days of Adam was patriarchal so would only be Heavenly Father that would be giving it to him. It would also seem most likely to me it was done in the garden of Eden.

So with Adam being created by the power of the priesthood, and he was made out of the dust of the earth, that would mean that creating a person out of the dust of the earth would be a priesthood ordnance; this would also mean that a person that is authorized to create a person out of the dust would need to also hold the priesthood of God. From scriptures we learn that Adam was not the only person that was created out of the dust of the earth king Benjamin was also and infect so is every other person how has ever lived. And also all flesh is of the dust. (Jacob 2:21, Psalms 103:14) So how is this done? How is it that a person is created of the dust of the earth and becomes a living soul? This is revealed in Moses 6:58-59 The Lord is talking to Adam explaining why we must be baptized, he is then given a commandment to teach his children about baptism by showing the connection of the physical birth with that of spiritual birth or baptism in verse 59 Adam is referring to his children not him. The first half outlines the proses by which dust becomes a living soul and it is by the proses of physical birth. Then the second half is about being born again and entrance into the kingdom of heaven by baptism.Going further with this, it is women that have the power to create living souls out of the dust of the earth, not men. They of course need men for a relatively small part of this role; but there is no man that can ever create a person of the dust of the earth. With this all being said I would put forward that this is how women partake in the priesthood with their husbands. When sealed to a husband they are authorized to create life and then enter into Motherhood. As a last remark I don’t believe that women will ever be able to hold the priesthood to baptize, bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost or seal a marriage; any more than a man will one day be able to conceive and nourish an embryo, seal a spirit and body together or give birth to a physical chilled.

This is a question that might be a little of topic, did God use the priesthood in the creation of Adam?

So with the earth being the earth that we are living on and people of our earth helped in its creation under the direction of Jesus Christ who was under the direction of the Father; yet we do not know how many people from this world helped in its creation. With this being the case which I believe to be true it would seem logical that when people from this earth become gods they will not create worlds but their children will create the worlds that they will live on them salves, under their direction just as Jesus Christ, Adam, Noah, Abraham and who knows how many others.

I would like to know what people believe this scripture is teaching. From what I can tell of the scripture the one that was like unto God was Jesus Christ, and the others that stood around him were the noble and grate ones, which Abraham was one. So then Jesus would say to Abraham and others like him “we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell” So I guess the question would be, what earth is being referred to, and who are the those who will dwell on it?

This scripture in section 2 is a big part of what leads me to ask the question. Most often a scripture will say turn the hearts of the fathers to the children this one however says “shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers” (D&C 2:2-3) So who are the Fathers being spoken of. I believe it can be any one of our family members that has died before us, but more specifically has reference to the promise made to the patriarchs of the first millennium. This is the promise I believe it is referring to, that when the posterity of the fathers are keeping “all” the commandments not just to say but to do, (D&C84:57) that they will come down to the earth (Moses 7:62-63) and do something or are already doing something that well help use become perfect in some way that could not be done without them.

This quote is often quoted from Joseph Smith which I do believe would be accurate, however it comes from a vision of Brigham Young well at winter quarters. Joseph Smith tells him that we were organized a family organization before the world was. This is the quote that you will find in the Preach my Gospel manual, however it stops before end of the vision, it continues bellow. I believe we were in some form of family organization well in the pre mortal life. I feel we had friends, and relationships some of which are continued here. Well we were their some learned more than others and exercised greater faith then others, then brought that faith with them. This scripture with (Alma 13:1-4) says that the principle that we can acquire knowledge through diligence and obedience in one life to give us an advantage in a world to come was applicable in the pre mortal life as much as it is in this life. some received callings and were given authority and training to fulfill those callings in the pre mortal life as well as in mortality; some of these people are Jesus Christ, Abram and Adam and Joseph Smith. (Jer 1:5, D&C 138:53-56, Abr3:23)