kate86 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 It is good to know that I am not the only that finds this recent revelation somewhat troubling. We know she is not going to stop so my question is why bother asking this here and then insist that they are being sincere. These types of things set up red flags that we catch and call people on.I guess we just aren't all as good and righteous as you are. Who are you to say if someone is being sincere or not? You are really the only person I've seen as less than helpful on the site...I came asking if I could go to church and you became judgemental and superior in your attitude. You have no right to say what I will and will not do, nor do you have a right to judge me for what I have done. To everyone else, thank you for your suggestions, for the experiences you have shared with me, and for your encouragement. I know this is a serious situation and I appreciate the concern you have shown me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate86 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bottom line is - you are not ready to repent.I agree with this. I'm not ready to. I don't want to repent or change. How do I get to the point where I do want whats right? Its just not important to me right now but at the same time I am somehow almost craving church and related things...I know it doesn't make sense, and I wish that I could honestly say that I want to fix things, but I just can't. Maybe its wrong to want to have some relationship with the Lord, and some connection to him through church/scriptures when I'm not willing to do what He asks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm coming to this a little late, and I haven't read every response in much detail, but I have noticed several that are of the opinion that if you know what you're doing is wrong, then you should stop. While that's certainly a true statement, people are more complicated than that, and frequently have motivations and urges to do things they know to be wrong. That's what the whole natural man thing was about. So I'm going to put out a couple of assumptions, and you can tell me if I'm close or not.First, let's assume that you've recognized that your lack of desire to obey the law of chastity is the natural man displaying control over your spiritual side.Second, let's assume that having recognized this, you would like to conquer your natural man, but aren't up to the task of fighting that battle right now.So now you ask if you can still go to church. My answer is, YES! You're exactly the kind of person that should be going to church.. Where else are you going to learn about the tools you will need and gain the courage you will need to "conquer the natural man?" By all means, keep going to church, keep reading your scriptures, and keep saying your prayers...all of that. Ignore people who talk down on your unwillingness to change your life right now. Change your life on the timeline that works for you. It may not be what some of us consider ideal, but personally, I'll take forward progress over no progress any day.(I hope that didn't come across as condescending to you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 What MOE said. It's a common misconception that church is a place for people to show off their righteousness. It's not, it's a place for us sinners (all of us) to learn and try to become better. Even if you don't want to/ not ready in this area that doesn't mean there are not other ways it could help. I can't tell you how many cigarettes i've smoked in the church parking lot over my life. I could have not gone until quit, but then i would just feed that old tired stereotype people leave to sin . If you want to go then go. You will not be the only person with sins, you will not be the only person not ready to repent. You could even consider yourself lucky that it's not visible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetiepie Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you want to live it in the future, isn't that going to be hard if you are with someone who isn't going to live it with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I agree with this. I'm not ready to. I don't want to repent or change. How do I get to the point where I do want whats right? Its just not important to me right now but at the same time I am somehow almost craving church and related things...I know it doesn't make sense, and I wish that I could honestly say that I want to fix things, but I just can't. Maybe its wrong to want to have some relationship with the Lord, and some connection to him through church/scriptures when I'm not willing to do what He asks.I agree with the above. Go to church. Do what you do want to do spiritually until you maybe one day reach that point. It's better than not going. Go get what you can from church. If you're not ready to be the perfect church member, be what you can. If the other people at church were perfect, they would have already been translated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) How do I get to the point where I do want whats right?<snip> Maybe its wrong to want to have some relationship with the Lord, and some connection to him through church/scriptures when I'm not willing to do what He asks.That's what going to church, reading the scriptures, prayer, performing service to others is all about. I'm sure you have a testimony in you of the truthfulness of all this - that all these things are positive influences to every person. Positive influences bear positive fruits - the more you experience blessings for choosing the right things, the more you would want them. There are times in my life when I would kneel down and start a prayer and I stop because I am shamed. There are times when I would let the shame take over me and I will avoid thinking of God so I won't have to face it. But, there are also times when I let myself fall in humility and a broken heart and persist in my prayer. One specific time in my life, my husband and I were fighting. I have a temper problem. I know I was out of control and that I was being cruel. But, I couldn't stop - it's like I am floating above my head looking at myself thinking, who are you??? I locked myself in the room and I can hear my husband trying to plead with me through the door. I was so desperate that I knelt down with complete humility and simply said, "God, help me!". That was it. That was my prayer. Believe it or not - that was the time when I felt the spirit strongly. VERY STRONGLY. It felt like a physical thing in my chest - like some giant space in my chest emptied out. I really can't explain it. I felt very peaceful and I couldn't continue the tantrum. Of course, I didn't open the door. I stayed in that room, my husband worried sick. Amazingly, not even 5 minutes later, the missionaries knocked on my door (I had a rule in my house that missionaries are not allowed to visit unless I specifically invite them) - it was crazy because I can hear my husband telling them, "This is not a good time at all, we'll call you when we're ready for you to come." and one missionary told my husband, "We know you don't want us coming over without an invitation but for some reason, we just felt that we had to come here to see if everything is okay". I was Catholic then - a very devout Catholic. But I have associated the missionaries with God's servants - even if I didn't believe their testimony at the time - I believed that God can be present in everybody - Catholic or non-Catholic alike. So that, hearing the missionaries say that, I felt like it was an immediate answer to my prayer. God's way of using my perceptions of missionaries to tell me that He is there and He is listening.No, it didn't cure my temper problem. I didn't even come out of the room at that time until hours later. It's been 13 years and I still have a temper problem. Yes, I know it is bad. Yes, I repent every single time I lose control. But what that experience taught me is that even in my ugliest moment - even when I am the most cruel, God is still listening. That knowledge alone fortifies my soul and keeps me at peace so that when I kneel down in prayer and feel ashamed, I can fall in complete humility and say, one more time, "God, help me!". It's now my go-to prayer when I'm feeling the most desperate. Edited January 21, 2011 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate86 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'm coming to this a little late, and I haven't read every response in much detail, but I have noticed several that are of the opinion that if you know what you're doing is wrong, then you should stop. While that's certainly a true statement, people are more complicated than that, and frequently have motivations and urges to do things they know to be wrong. That's what the whole natural man thing was about. So I'm going to put out a couple of assumptions, and you can tell me if I'm close or not.First, let's assume that you've recognized that your lack of desire to obey the law of chastity is the natural man displaying control over your spiritual side.Second, let's assume that having recognized this, you would like to conquer your natural man, but aren't up to the task of fighting that battle right now.So now you ask if you can still go to church. My answer is, YES! You're exactly the kind of person that should be going to church.. Where else are you going to learn about the tools you will need and gain the courage you will need to "conquer the natural man?" By all means, keep going to church, keep reading your scriptures, and keep saying your prayers...all of that. Ignore people who talk down on your unwillingness to change your life right now. Change your life on the timeline that works for you. It may not be what some of us consider ideal, but personally, I'll take forward progress over no progress any day.(I hope that didn't come across as condescending to you).This pretty much sums up the situation perfectly. Those two assumptions were spot on. And no, you didn't at all come off condescending. Thank you so much for your contribution and thoughts, and for understanding where I am right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate86 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 If everything seems to be working out well between the both of you... why not... ? (sorry if this was already answered, I did not read through the whole thread)Completely hypocricital...but I want to get married in the temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Completely hypocricital...but I want to get married in the temple.Definitely a worthy goal, and it depends on when you want to do it. If you want the marriage to be in the temple, you will have to make some lifestyle changes prior to that.If you want to be sealed there, well, I do like the idea of getting married now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSBFF Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'm a single 52 year old women and have NEVER been with a man EVER. I'm very prond of it. I joined the Church in 1977 because I knew it was what I was ment to do. Be your self and come back to Church Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aislinn Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi I am new to this site and this may seem like a silly question, but it is genuine. I am a 24 year old young woman and have been a member of the church my whole life. All through my youth I was an extremely active girl, president of all three young women's classes, graduated seminary with perfect attendance, etc. For the past couple of years however, i've been in a relationship where we do not keep the law of chastity. I still know the church is true, but when I am honest with myself I just don't want to live it right now. I will in the future but just not now. I KNOW that is absolutely terrible, but its at least honest. My question is...if I know that I am not trying to be clean, can I still go to church/read scriptures? I haven't in about 9 months because it just feels hypocritical. I know I can't take the sacrament, and I wouldn't, but I just want to go. I still feel the spirit from time to time, and I want to continue to learn...I just don't want to change that one part of my life. I follow everything else to a "T", just not that. Would it be wrong to go to church and institute and study scriptures and even maybe pray?I Know how you feel. There have been times in my own life when I have felt unworthy to attend church or even to kneel down a pray. But the truth is, When you're having trouble with the commandments, it is the time when going to church is the most important. Christ said " They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." People who are sick need to go the the doctor's to heal. Likewise, people who are struggling with sin or other problems need to go to church to heal. No matter what you've done, The savior still loves you and wants you to return to him. He is always knocking. You have but to open the door.good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 You should go to church, but be prepared for some sort of discipline, possibly including excommunication, if/when the bishop finds out about your living arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 You should go to church, but be prepared for some sort of discipline, possibly including excommunication, if/when the bishop finds out about your living arrangements.And thus we see, that when we offer a carrot, someone is bound to take that carrot and beat you with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl62 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 You should go to church, but be prepared for some sort of discipline, possibly including excommunication, if/when the bishop finds out about your living arrangements.What would then motivate her to want to go back to church if she thinks there's a possibility of getting kicked out? Whatever happened to the story of the prodigal son? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 You should go to church, but be prepared for some sort of discipline, possibly including excommunication, if/when the bishop finds out about your living arrangements.Would it actually come down to excommunication as in don't-come-to-the-ward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Excommunication never means "don't come to the ward".If it were me, go back to church at your own pace. Visit another ward, if possible. In another ward, you can have the blessings of church attendance and no pestering from a Bishop who may have stewardship over your spiritual welfare.Just go back and enjoy the spirit. The spirit will tell you and guide you to when you are ready to put things right in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate86 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 And thus we see, that when we offer a carrot, someone is bound to take that carrot and beat you with it.I don't understand what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate86 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 My bishop already knows everything, so its not a matter of if/when he finds out. He doesn't care. And we don't live together all the time, we just stay together a few nights a month when visiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Would it actually come down to excommunication as in don't-come-to-the-ward?Probably not, but I don't think the average bishop could or should turn his head and ignore the problem. Remember church discipline is to help the sinner. I certainly don't think any bishop would tell a person in the situation at hand not to come to church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 He doesn't care. .Please do not think he doesn't care.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 He cares. He's simply respecting your right to choose the way you want to live. When you're ready for the next step, he'll be there. It's strange. Sometimes we, as LDS, try to impose the gospel of Jesus Christ on others. This isn't Christ's plan. It's Satan's plan. You have the choice on how to live! When you want to choose to follow Christ (more), then they will help you as they can. Your Bishop would seem to understand this - based on your statement that "he knows but doesn't care". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I'm guessing she doesn't mean, "he doesn't care about me," but rather "he knows about my living situation, but doesn't really care -- he hasn't taken any disciplinary action because of it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate86 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I'm guessing she doesn't mean, "he doesn't care about me," but rather "he knows about my living situation, but doesn't really care -- he hasn't taken any disciplinary action because of it."Yes, that is more along the lines of what I mean. Although...it has been 9 months since i've been to church, and just before I stopped going we were meeting every other week and i've not heard form him in these last 9 months...I imagine its just him being incredibly busy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Yes, that is more along the lines of what I mean. Although...it has been 9 months since i've been to church, and just before I stopped going we were meeting every other week and i've not heard form him in these last 9 months...I imagine its just him being incredibly busy though.It's up to you, though, too. He cares about you, and I'm sure he'd like to see you on the path back, but he's not your mommy or your babysitter. If you made contact and said you wanted to meet with him still, even though you're not going to church, he wouldn't be objectionable to that.It's also possible that in nine months, you've gotten a new bishop.But you're right -- when we don't see people for a long period of time, it's easy to forget about them while we're so busy with everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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