LDS Avow

[jthomb1959]

Anyone ever hear of LDS Avow? If so I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions. If you had rather PM me, that would be fine or you can email me if you prefer.

[NeuroTypical]

AVOW is a site for mormons who figure their dreams are real visions. It stands for "Another Voice of Warning", and AVOW folks figure they've got access to information about the future that you don't have. It revolves around preparing for the day when the Prophet announces a "callout" for righteous saints to drop what they're doing and go camp in the rocky mountains for upwards of a year. Some of them believe the plans are already in the works, and bishops already are in the know, but aren't saying anything. Former members of that site have occasionally been able to ask bishops and GA's about the callout. The answer is always unanimously "there's no such thing - stop talking crazy talk". AVOW participants have been made aware of these statements, and it rarely makes the slightest dent in them.

Folks who have drunk the AVOW/Roger K. Young koolaid can always be spotted when they protest about how people dismiss conspiracy theories or fringe doctrine. When arguing with them, you can spot an AVOW member within five posts, because they'll be using insulting phrases like "ostrich head in the sand" and "selling your soul for a warm fuzzy", and accusing you of being willfully blind, denying reality, etc. The notion that maybe their dreams aren't visions, is not found within a mile of these people.

If you ever want to see how an idea can sink iron talons into people and refuse to let go, go to AVOW.

AVOW charges for access to their site. A group of people who figure they got ripped off and left there, have started a less-kooky site called the Got Lamp Oil Forums. I've been an active participant on that forum for a few years. They are preparadness minded, a lot of active and former military and law enforcement.

LM

[edit - I just read your intro. If you're looking for a site that is still serious about such things, but less visionary or 'kooky' - try GLO. THey're very nice people.]

Edited February 6, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[slamjet]

I thought it looked a bit off. It reads like a bunch of folks ready to run to the caves to wait for the impending Armageddon. Plus, when there's a forum just for sharing personal visions/revelations, there's something really wrong.

[jthomb1959]

AVOW is a site for mormons who figure their dreams are real visions. It stands for "Another Voice of Warning", and AVOW folks figure they've got access to information about the future that you don't have. It revolves around preparing for the day when the Prophet announces a "callout" for righteous saints to drop what they're doing and go camp in the rocky mountains for upwards of a year. Some of them believe the plans are already in the works, and bishops already are in the know, but aren't saying anything. Former members of that site have occasionally been able to ask bishops and GA's about the callout. The answer is always unanimously "there's no such thing - stop talking crazy talk". AVOW participants have been made aware of these statements, and it rarely makes the slightest dent in them.

Folks who have drunk the AVOW/Roger K. Young koolaid can always be spotted when they protest about how people dismiss conspiracy theories or fringe doctrine. When arguing with them, you can spot an AVOW member within five posts, because they'll be using insulting phrases like "ostrich head in the sand" and "selling your soul for a warm fuzzy", and accusing you of being willfully blind, denying reality, etc. The notion that maybe their dreams aren't visions, is not found within a mile of these people.

If you ever want to see how an idea can sink iron talons into people and refuse to let go, go to AVOW.

AVOW charges for access to their site. A group of people who figure they got ripped off and left there, have started a less-kooky site called the Got Lamp Oil Forums. I've been an active participant on that forum for a few years. They are preparadness minded, a lot of active and former military and law enforcement.

LM

[edit - I just read your intro. If you're looking for a site that is still serious about such things, but less visionary or 'kooky' - try GLO. THey're very nice people.]

Thank you for your thoughts on Avow, I have heard about them from a friend I have out on the left coast. He sent me an email outlining some of his concerns about several of the Mods there and the owner of the site claiming to have the approval of the General Authorities and the Prophet himself. The email he sent is copied and posted from a thread on there that really caused me to raise my eyebrows. If this is real and they DON"T have this privilege, the GAs need to know what they are planning. I only wish I knew how to contact the First Presidency or even the GAs with this. If you are interested I will post it here for you to read. I saved it to my my personal folder so that should they change or edit it in the event of official inquiry.

[jthomb1959]

I thought it looked a bit off. It reads like a bunch of folks ready to run to the caves to wait for the impending Armageddon. Plus, when there's a forum just for sharing personal visions/revelations, there's something really wrong.

I tend to agree, I have a friend that is a member that is in the medical field and he really is concerned about some of the goings on in there. So much so that he started sending me some of their posts that seem to him waaaaay out on the fringe of apostasy. I have started keeping the emails in a private folder that I can access off line should they start editing in the event someone from the hierarchy of the Church decides to investigate.

[HiJolly]

I was a member for two years. A good-hearted bunch of folks that take things a bit too seriously, if you ask me.

OTOH, they're awesome for learning survival techniques & things. I like 'em, even while I mourn at their lack of rigor in deciding what they believe/ don't believe.

HiJolly

[slamjet]

They don't have the General Authority's approval. It goes against what they tell us from the pulpit and current trends in the Church's use of the internet. At one time, there were numerous web sites from different wards and stakes. They had them stop, and implemented the site they have now. Everything is centralized. So I would strongly suspect anyone saying they have the Church's specific say-so.

[Backroads]

Never heard of it. Sounds... interesting.

Now I think everyone can certainly have personal revelation, I don't think every single dream we have is a legitimate spiritual experience.

[HiJolly]

Never heard of it. Sounds... interesting.

Now I think everyone can certainly have personal revelation, I don't think every single dream we have is a legitimate spiritual experience.

I think every dream is an interaction between the conscious mind, the sub conscious mind, and sometimes, God.

I know for a fact we can develop/nurture ground rules and/or communication protocols between these three. Of course, care must be taken and the meaning of it all is even harder to make sense of than waking revelatory states. Which is saying something.

HiJolly

Resident mystic

[Backroads]

I think every dream is an interaction between the conscious mind, the sub conscious mind, and sometimes, God.

I know for a fact we can develop/nurture ground rules and/or communication protocols between these three. Of course, care must be taken and the meaning of it all is even harder to make sense of than waking revelatory states. Which is saying something.

HiJolly

Resident mystic

I guess I view dreams mainly and merely as brainwork. 9 out of 10 dreams I can explain exactly why I had it.

[NeuroTypical]

If this is real and they DON"T have this privilege, the GAs need to know what they are planning.

avow folks are serious and believe the stuff they say. They do NOT have the privelege/authority/ability to speak prophetically or in behalf of church leaders. And don't worry, the church leadership already knows about them.

[jthomb1959]

avow folks are serious and believe the stuff they say. They do NOT have the privelege/authority/ability to speak prophetically or in behalf of church leaders. And don't worry, the church leadership already knows about them.

Oh they say alright that the Church leadership is aware of them BUT they claim to have the blessings of the 12 and or the First Presidency to do what they are doing and saying. Here is a copy of one of the posts in a thread that was sent to me by a friend who is concerned about what is going on in there: Dear Friends:

History presents a number of powerful examples of “Strength in Numbers.” On May 19, 1980, race riots broke out all across Miami, Florida. Hundreds of families found themselves the victims of mob violence, unable to prevent wholesale theft and damage to their homes and property. Law Enforcement, Fire and Ambulance services were inundated with calls from all over the county, quickly overwhelming their ability to respond. The violence ran unchecked for days. Later, after the looting and violence had finally been brought under control aerial surveys revealed the incredible scale of damage. Every area of the city had been affected – all but one.

In the midst of the devastation stood a one-block by three-block area completely unscathed. Was this small island of protection ringed with barbed wire with armed defenders standing at the gate? No, the surprising truth revealed a small retirement community whose youngest tenant was in their early seventies. No one was armed, none were your typical “Rambo” types. What made all the difference was their common desire to protect one another. Their defense was very simple. 24-hour citizen watches were organized, and volunteers came forward. When criminal activity was found, patrols sounded the alarm, awakening everyone. All together, they went outside and sat on their porches, in lawn chairs on driveways and just – watched. This act alone prevented even a single loss within their community. There is an undeniable safety in numbers, and strength when everyone works toward a single purpose.

A small group of people recently met to talk seriously about pre-callout communications when things are so terrible that we may no longer be safe in our own homes. Let me be perfectly clear. We’re NOT talking about an official callout by the Church nor anything of the sort.

Imagine yourself facing the Miami riots, but on a much larger scale. How would you communicate with other like-minded individuals to avoid conflict and prevent violence through general protection? However, there are many of us that feel that the times are changing drastically and will continue to do so over the next short time. We are not issuing time lines. We are mostly LDS and even those that are not must agree to take direction from the prophet of the Church and this takes precedence over everything else. We have decided that when the time comes and we are no longer safe in our homes AND the prophet has not yet issued a general callout, we would like to band together with other like minded individuals to provide for the general security of each other through a communications network that allows us to talk to each other when most other forms of communications are not working for one reason or another. We will do everything in compliance with Church policy and direction. We want to make sure that what ever do we are in constant contact with the Church and the Prophet so that when a general callout is issued that we can join the main body of saints where ever they might be.

We are NOT forming a militia or anything of the sort. We are only looking for the general welfare by grouping together with other like minded individuals. We see strength in numbers.

We will most likely stay in our homes whenever possible. When that time comes, some of you may choose to move to more central location. We hope to provide each other with valuable information to make informed decisions. We will not be organizing mass migrations or moves like a general callout. Most of the moves will be fairly local to where you currently live. However there are some of you that live in cities and other urban environments that are just not safe. Our group is mainly for helping those people through a communications network to provide alternative options.

We are looking for other like minded individuals that are thinking along these lines. From many different views and other evidences it seems that the time to actually start this whole process in motion may hinge on one singular event, although there would be many events happening about this time. That key event seems to be the permanent and widespread loss of general communications specifically the internet and telephones. We do NOT have any idea on a time line or how soon this may occur. So our plan is simple.

· When the internet and telephone go down for 24 hours straight, within 24 hours after that we meet to have a general meeting to discuss the next step

· We will most likely be suggesting points of action and/or places of safety (NOT A CALLOUT) you may choose to take within the next 24 hours after that. Most people will stay in their homes and can gather several family member and friends together to provide more strength in numbers. Again this is NOT a place to go to be subversive to the Church or the government. We are law abiding citizens, but when the law can no longer protect us we want to be able to find safety in numbers. If you have intentions of anti-government or anti-church then this is NOT for you

· For the general meeting that happens within 24 hours we do NOT want everyone to show up, ONLY ONE representative from each group of families or large neighborhood. The rest of those families/friends of the group should be preparing for alternative safety measures. Those traveling to the 24 hour meeting please DO NOT bring your pack up gear with you with the exception of a few meals and sleeping bag for those of you who may be walking to your destination. The locations of the 24 hour meeting, otherwise known as assembly areas, are yet to be determined

· We expect that timing will be critical in meeting together and making and executing plans after this point due to rapid breakdown of society

General membership requirements:

· you must be able to live LDS standards

· social or economic status is not required

· you must be actively doing everything in your power to become prepared with specifics to a one year supply of food or more and other needful items (yes this means you can have less than a year's supply but you must be working towards more) while staying within your budget

· you must be willing to pull your share of the work load

· you must have or have access to a working 2 meter HAM radio - this can be at neighbor’s house - you physically do not have to have one in your possession but you have access to a HAM radio where you can receive information

We are actively contacting people from many different groups. Not everyone who receives this invitation is automatically accepted. Please understand this will be all about families in the end. Yes, you will be able to invite family and friends that are like minded.

This will not be a formally organized group. The meetings will be as informal as we can make them. Unlike other preparedness organizations you may belong to, there will be no website, no preplanning campouts, seminars or such. We will encourage you to learn all you can from other preparedness groups. There will be a few preplanning meetings with key individuals to determine steps to be taken when necessary. All assembly area locations will NOT be shared with the general group but only with key individuals. You will be given the contact info and assembly area for the key persons in your local area. Other than this everything will be kept confidential to protect the safety of those involved. Other than a brief description of how, when and where very little information will be sent out to you until it is at or near time.

Please understand, ANY and ALL efforts to be coordinated will be done with LDS Church guidelines in mind. NOTHING will be done that is contrary to the Church or its beliefs or its prophet. Also, NOTHING will be done that will be against the Constitution as it was originally written. This network is not part of or affiliated with the Church whatsoever. We believe if we stay within the standards and guidelines of the Church, we will all be able to coordinate all that we do better, because we will be that much more like minded.

Just to reiterate, most of us will likely be staying in our homes. It is possible that 3 or more families may choose to live together in one home. We feel a great strength in numbers. This is NOT a militia or anything like unto it. This is simply a way of staying safe even if it means moving to safer locations. Most people will probably not go more than a mile away from their home. Those most likely to move are now in the cities where gang warfare and violence will be the greatest but this does not preclude other locations where people currently live either. Any move will be strictly voluntary although it may be a one time offer. We see the need to stay in constant contact with your local ward and stake.

Key Individual requirements:

in addition to the previously mentioned requirements

· you must be willing to follow the LDS prophet without question

· we do not tolerate conspiracy theories or those that promote them

(we believe they exist and are real but lead many to disengage from the Church and the Prophet)

· you must firmly uphold the US Constitution

· you must believe in a general callout to tent cities

· you must have a place where up to 200 people can meet (assembly area) - this will NOT be at your home

· you must have HF and 2 meter HAM capabilities or access to them which can be set up at your assembly area

· you must have 2 meter and 10-80 meter antennas

· you must have alternate electricity capability in the form of a minimum 200 amp deep cycle battery and a solar recharging capabilities or similar setup

· must have a laptop computer with the free downloaded digital mode software with a TNC soundcard

· must have speakers that can broadcast to a group of 200 people

· must be in a geographic location which others can walk to, if necessary, within 24 hours

Ok, now where do you go from here?

For those interested in being key individuals and meet the requirements listed above. Contact us and let us know.

For those of you who want to be just a general member and not worry about all the special requirements of a key individual, if you meet the first set of requirements listed above, contact us as well.

However, please take this to the Lord and get a confirmation that this is what you should or should not be doing. If you are married, please talk this over with your spouse or family. This is a family affair. If you would like to participate then contact us afterward. Our contact information is:

I tried to keep out the names they are using at this point but I have all of it saved just in case. Now I don't know what post/thread this came from but it could easily be tracked back to the source.

[Madriglace]

I am not sure I understand why folks like this get all wound up about what is going to happen. If we look to ourselves and our families ... making sure we stand in holy places and do all that we can do with our attention fixed firmly on the Savior and his prophet we have absolutely nothing to worry about .... no matter what happens we will be fine.

[slamjet]

I am not sure I understand why folks like this get all wound up about what is going to happen. If we look to ourselves and our families ... making sure we stand in holy places and do all that we can do with our attention fixed firmly on the Savior and his prophet we have absolutely nothing to worry about .... no matter what happens we will be fine.

It almost seems that they lack an eternal perspective. But then I don't know enough about them to come to any hard conclusions.

[prophetofdoom]

Maybe I didn't see it, but, I didn't see anywhere in that post them say that they are endorsed by the church. They just seem like a group of concerned citizens who even state they want to adhere to LDS standards. Is there something I am not seeing?

[bytor2112]

I hear the site is being renamed......... Glen Beck's AVOW

[NeuroTypical]

We will do everything in compliance with Church policy and direction.

...

NOTHING will be done that is contrary to the Church or its beliefs or its prophet.

Now that sounds lovely. Unfortunately:

· you must be willing to follow the LDS prophet without question

See, that's totally against church policy and direction. It was against church policy and direction during zion's camp, as the saints traveled west, when they set up in Utah, and at every point thereafter. Blind obedience is not part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, nor is it ever asked of a disciple of Christ. There is no "follow without question" involved in faith.

That little requirement right there, is what flags AVOW as an apostate organization. Full of good people with lots of preparadness info, yes. But set up and run by fallible humans only.

(And on top of that, they've had to reset their 'impending callout' date at least twice now - which adds 'goofy' to the fallible human part.)

LM

[slamjet]

I hear the site is being renamed......... Glen Beck's AVOW

Now THAT'S funny

[thatgirl1985]

Wasn't there a group back in the 90s that were prepping for TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it)? Didn't the GA have to warn folks that if they associated with this group they would be in danger of being excommunicated?

Anybody remember what I'm talking about?

[jthomb1959]

Wasn't there a group back in the 90s that were prepping for TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it)? Didn't the GA have to warn folks that if they associated with this group they would be in danger of being excommunicated?

Anybody remember what I'm talking about?

I have heard that same thing but have not been able to verify it. I can't for the life of me remember when or where I heard that.

I have been searching the net trying to find something about this but so far, nothing.

[jthomb1959]

Maybe I didn't see it, but, I didn't see anywhere in that post them say that they are endorsed by the church. They just seem like a group of concerned citizens who even state they want to adhere to LDS standards. Is there something I am not seeing?

I purposely left out that information because it is/was attached to people's names and I don't want to cross over in to that arena just yet. As I said in my original post, I have the letter in it's entirety complete with all the pertinent stored for future reference.

[jthomb1959]

I truly appreciate ALL of your posts and thoughts and opinions on the question about Avow. I have gone in and have had a good solid look around and though I come away from there with plenty of questions, I also have some good solid answers as well.

I don't agree with a lot of what I read in there, with special emphasis on the dreams and visions area. There are several private forums that, at first glance, might offend some in that, the private folders or forums could be seen as building clicks or privileged groups.

However, for the most part, from what I have been able to learn about, these private groups serve a special purpose. That being, they let those of like mindset have a place so share their thoughts and ideas without being exposed to the critiquing that so often comes from others who don't have the same thought processes. While these private forums do have the potential for getting out of hand, the mods in there are very alert, astute, and they are Johnny on the spot as it were in keeping the discussions on track and centered on the teachings of the Prophets and the Lord.

With all this being said, I must say that while don't agree with 100% of the content, that same thing can be said for this site, and every other sight on the net. That is part of being human and part of the blessings from Heavenly Father that we call agency. Avow is not for everyone and that is for sure and for certain. But for those who are looking for ideas on how to better prepare themselves against the coming rainy days that President Hinckley so aptly warned us about, Avow is a good resource and I would recommend to one and all that, if you are looking to learn and grow in the area of preparing and getting yourself and your family prepared, Avow is an excellent resource. Just don't get caught up in the dreams and visions as being authoritative. The dreams and visions sections make for interesting reading, they provide for the opportunity to for some deep introspection. But once you start taking these dreams and visions as being literal or thinking that they are necessary for YOUR progression or that of your family, then it is time to step back, take a deep breath and change course to get back on track and in line with your hands firmly grasping the rod if iron.

[NeuroTypical]

Agreed. There's lots of good info at avow. But as I mentioned above, anyone looking for ideas on how to better prepare themselves against the coming rainy days that President Hinckley so aptly warned us about, without the subscription fee and apostate false prophecying, give the Got Lamp Oil forums a try.

[jthomb1959]

Agreed. There's lots of good info at avow. But as I mentioned above, anyone looking for ideas on how to better prepare themselves against the coming rainy days that President Hinckley so aptly warned us about, without the subscription fee and apostate false prophecying, give the Got Lamp Oil forums a try.

I tend to agree with you on that one, I joined GLO a while back but had puter probs and lost all my links, caches and such and had completely forgotten about them. I just had gotten started with them when my computer went down. They look like a really good place to be.

[bert10]

I think when GOD says....

Revelation 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues

It will depend where we are. Babylon is today's Civilization...and were are we to go? Well the opposite of Babylon is Zion. If one is near where Zion is to be set up...then going to the mountains would be foolish for them. But for others who are far away from places of safety the mountains are were we can go. The people of GOD often fled to the hills and mountains when destruction was imminent.

The wicked shall also go there....for it is written...

Isaiah 2:19 - And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

The difference between life and death is righteousness of the people who shall gather together. Where the pure in hearts are gathered so will Zion be found in their midst. The wicked who kept the kingdom of GOD from being established up until now shall be removed. All that God is asking of us is to get out of the way when the times come.

bert10

Anyone ever hear of LDS Avow? If so I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions. If you had rather PM me, that would be fine or you can email me if you prefer.

Edited February 14, 2011 by bert10