Was there only an A or B choice in the preexistence?

[TomLogan]

In the preexistence when we chose between Christ's plan and Satan's plan. Those that chose Christ's plan, did they agree to all points of the plan? Example is it say possible a spirit could have chose to follow Christ but was not willing to come to earth? Was it an all or none decision or were variations possible?

Edited February 14, 2011 by TomLogan
clarify my question

[slamjet]

As far as we are told, there was an A and B choice. I'm curious why you would want to know if there was a third option?

[Backroads]

According to some mythology (I want to say Christian Norse, but I don't think that's right, but somewhere in Europe) elves were the third choice. They decided to "stay out of it" and go with whoever won. Since they didn't exactly rebel, they weren't exactly damned, but banished to earth without souls.

Then there's my dear mother, who says she was off reading a book somewhere and oblivious to the whole war.

[Blackmarch]

In the preexistence when we chose between Christ's plan and Satan's plan. Those that chose Christ's plan, did they agree to all points of the plan? Example is it say possible a spirit could have chose to follow Christ but was not willing to come to earth? Was it an all or none decision or were variations possible?

we don't know. as far as we know there were only 2 choices by the time push came to shove near the end. Nothing says there were more than two choices and nothing says that there were only two choices at or before that time.

[Blackmarch]

As far as we are told, there was an A and B choice. I'm curious why you would want to know if there was a third option?

the unknown is always something that has made people curious

[Casper]

It has already been mentioned that we only know of two choices that were available in the pre-mortal life. I don’t believe there were any more options than that; however I do believe that spirits chose their side with varying digress of commitment and faith.

Abraham was a spirit that was noble a great, as a result of that he was chosen before this life to be a ruler in the kingdom of God, it would seem only logical to me that Satan would have his team of great spirits that went with him. Then both sides would have had those on the opposite end of the scale that only just chose a side without being very committed to the cause.

An example might be someone how chose to come to earth and did not want to live by the gospel, or on the other side some one that was not evil but lacked the faith that Christ would complete the atonement so chose to go with satin instead. But in the end this is still really only two options.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Casper

[Wingnut]

According to some mythology (I want to say Christian Norse, but I don't think that's right, but somewhere in Europe) elves were the third choice. They decided to "stay out of it" and go with whoever won. Since they didn't exactly rebel, they weren't exactly damned, but banished to earth without souls.

Interesting, because that doesn't really jibe with what we read in the Scriptures about being lukewarm.

Then there's my dear mother, who says she was off reading a book somewhere and oblivious to the whole war.

I once heard the War in Heaven described as a high school football game:

(1) You have the players, down on the field, in the thick of it, doing the dirty work.

(2) You have the cheerleaders, encouraging them and pumping up the crowd.

(3) You have the die-hard fans in the bottom seven bleachers in the center section, just above the cheerleaders. They are the loudest group, but they also offer much encouragement.

(4) You have the band, providing a soundtrack for the event.

(5) You have the kids who are there because they want to be cool or their parents made them go. They feel awkward and out of place, but they know that this is what high school is all about, right?

(6) You have the losers on the top bleachers, taunting everyone else present and throwing popcorn in the want-to-be-cool kids' hair, but technically, they're still there.

Point is, I think there were only two options, but that doesn't mean that everyone was completely gung-ho one way or the other.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think, by being here now, we all had to actively choose to be here. We had to want to be here. This life is not the default choice. I think it has to be that way so this life truly becomes a test of faith. If we had to develop an understanding of the plan while here then this life would also become a test of intelligence and understanding which I don't think it is. This test of faith requires that we had a previous understanding and kept our first estate.

There may have been other ideas presented but I think it boiled down to two at the time of the great war in heaven. Different than this life, though, we had all knowledge and could not be deceived.

[Wingnut]

Interesting, because that doesn't really jibe with what we read in the Scriptures about being lukewarm.

I once heard the War in Heaven described as a high school football game:

(1) You have the players, down on the field, in the thick of it, doing the dirty work.

(2) You have the cheerleaders, encouraging them and pumping up the crowd.

(3) You have the die-hard fans in the bottom seven bleachers in the center section, just above the cheerleaders. They are the loudest group, but they also offer much encouragement.

(4) You have the band, providing a soundtrack for the event.

(5) You have the kids who are there because they want to be cool or their parents made them go. They feel awkward and out of place, but they know that this is what high school is all about, right?

(6) You have the losers on the top bleachers, taunting everyone else present and throwing popcorn in the want-to-be-cool kids' hair, but technically, they're still there.

Point is, I think there were only two options, but that doesn't mean that everyone was completely gung-ho one way or the other.

There may have been kids smoking pot or making out under the bleachers, too, but I'm not sure where they fit in, really.

[Backroads]

Interesting, because that doesn't really jibe with what we read in the Scriptures about being lukewarm.

I know, right? I'm imagining it an incident where the Christianity clashed with prior pagan beliefs and that was the contradicting result.

Though I did see a fictional novel that used the concept and made it sound very much a legitimate punishment... too bad it was fantasy fiction and not scripture.

I once heard the War in Heaven described as a high school football game:

(1) You have the players, down on the field, in the thick of it, doing the dirty work.

(2) You have the cheerleaders, encouraging them and pumping up the crowd.

(3) You have the die-hard fans in the bottom seven bleachers in the center section, just above the cheerleaders. They are the loudest group, but they also offer much encouragement.

(4) You have the band, providing a soundtrack for the event.

(5) You have the kids who are there because they want to be cool or their parents made them go. They feel awkward and out of place, but they know that this is what high school is all about, right?

(6) You have the losers on the top bleachers, taunting everyone else present and throwing popcorn in the want-to-be-cool kids' hair, but technically, they're still there.

Point is, I think there were only two options, but that doesn't mean that everyone was completely gung-ho one way or the other.

Ah, man! If that's how I was in wordly high school, I was number 6.

[Traveler]

We do not have a lot of details concerning our pre-existence. What we do have we are able to glean the important and necessary information. When Satan was excommunicated from the society of heaven we are told that a third part went with him. This is important information. In this little bit of information we are able to learn that heaven was divided into 3 parts concerning the plan of salvation; Satan and his followers being one part.

In the Book of Abraham chapter 3 we are told concerning another part. This part are known as and called “The Nobel and Great”. Abraham was in that part. Then in Alma chapter 13 we are told a little more about the part known as “The Nobel and Great”. They were pre-ordained to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood on earth. I have speculated that women who receive their endowments in this life are also part of “The Nobel and Great” and were pre-ordained as for their role as The Nobel and Great.

We are not told specifically of the third group but I believe it to be simple and obvious. They are everybody else. They were not cast out and they were not Nobel and Great.

As we become aware of types and shadows in scripture we become aware of how the division of heaven into three parts plays out as a type and shadow of other things. For example after the flood of Noah mankind was divided into three parts, symbolically represented by the three sons of Noah who become known as: 1. The Covenant - Shem. 2. The Gentiles - Japheth (interesting note - Japheth is the oldest) and 3. The Heathens - Ham. The final type comes in the resurrection where all mankind are judged and placed into 1 of 3 kingdoms of glory.

The final question of this thread is concerning the plans presented. In truth there was only one actual and viable plan and that was the plan of the Father. Lucifer rebelled against that plan and made some alterations that we are told would deprive man of “Agency”; not just for our mortal probation but forever and all eternity. But we can also understand that Lucifer’s plan would remove the Father from any position of authority and end the order of his priesthood and authority. This would result in Satan becoming the undisputed authority and only G-d of any significant power and authority. His promise was in essence to take care of everybody as an entitlement. However, we are also told that Satan (or Lucifer) was lying.

I believe the important thing to understand about Satan is that he never intended to have his own plan but rather to “copy” the plan and methods of the Father with slight variations. Most important is the removal of agency with the only qualification for salvation being to believe in G-d. Whereas he (Satan) would be the only G-d to be believed in that would so entitle believers. It is also important to note and understand that the War of Heaven did not conclude but wages on as we continue to align ourselves with the Father and his Son who is our Mediator or Satan during our mortal life experience.

The Traveler

Edited February 14, 2011 by Traveler

[rameumptom]

According to the scriptures, there was only one choice: to sustain or not to sustain Jesus as Savior. Abraham 3 tells us there was only one plan, God's, and that the only questions was who would be Savior. Jesus volunteered, as did Lucifer. However, Lucifer wanted to change the plan.

Yet there was no choice or vote given on the plan, just on who would be Savior.

[rameumptom]

In the Book of Abraham chapter 3 we are told concerning another part. This part are known as and called “The Nobel and Great”. Abraham was in that part.

The Traveler

Was President Obama also part of the Nobel and Great?

[Seminarysnoozer]

In the Book of Abraham chapter 3 we are told concerning another part. This part are known as and called “The Nobel and Great”. Abraham was in that part. Then in Alma chapter 13 we are told a little more about the part known as “The Nobel and Great”. They were pre-ordained to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood on earth. I have speculated that women who receive their endowments in this life are also part of “The Nobel and Great” and were pre-ordained as for their role as The Nobel and Great.

We are not told specifically of the third group but I believe it to be simple and obvious. They are everybody else. They were not cast out and they were not Nobel and Great.

The Traveler

I am curious what you think would make a person not "Noble and Great" in the previous life. Would keeping one's first estate not make them "Noble and Great"?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Was President Obama also part of the Nobel and Great?

Oh my, took me a while .... but I got it.

[rameumptom]

My take on the Noble and Great ones that Abraham saw, is that these are the ones who had already become righteous enough to have divine/god status.

This would include the archangels: Michael/Adam, Gabriel/Noah, Enoch/Metatron, Raphael, etc. It would include those who would be prophets and apostles in this life. It would include the Holy Ghost. And it probably included many others who were spiritual giants.

Just as Jesus had to go from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace until he received a fullness (D&C 93), so do we. His development began in the premortal existence, where he attained godhood or divine status. What we are doing now for our salvation did not begin here. Nor will it end here.

I believe that many had achieved some level of divine or even god status. They were not fully gods, though. They had not yet been resurrected, exalted, etc.

[Blackmarch]

Was President Obama also part of the Nobel and Great?

Better that than Ig-Nobel and great

[heatwaveo8]

In the preexistence when we chose between Christ's plan and Satan's plan. Those that chose Christ's plan, did they agree to all points of the plan? Example is it say possible a spirit could have chose to follow Christ but was not willing to come to earth? Was it an all or none decision or were variations possible?

Cain was a follower of evil, seeing he made an oath with Satan, yet he chose God's plan and therefore received a body.

[Traveler]

I am curious what you think would make a person not "Noble and Great" in the previous life. Would keeping one's first estate not make them "Noble and Great"?

They were not “valiant”.

The Traveler