Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy

[Palerider]

You need to get the book called.....Joseph Smith, A Rough Stone Rolling

Good book....this book seemed to upset people....it went into his plural marriages. Many Church members were upset over this book. I have a copy and have read it twice and i dont see why people get upset over it. No one ever said or taught Joseph Smith was perfect.

[LDSChristian]

Well this thread gave me a laugh this morning. The thread title, combined with the "I Fought the Law.. and the Law Won" music video my BIL just posted on his Facebook, created a rather humorous juxtoposition in my imagination.

Not sure how when this thread isn't based on a joking matter. I made another good thread and yet again, someone has to make light of it.

[slamjet]

Not sure how when this thread isn't based on a joking matter. I made another good thread and yet again, someone has to make light of it.

It's called different personalities and experiences seeing things differently.

[RockWaterman]

After having looked into the question quite a bit, I'm far from convinced that Joseph Smith practiced it. All the evidence points to Joseph vigorously opposing the practice and vowing to root it out. Evidence to the contrary is mostly hearsay and quite flimsy. Here are some of my findings:

[mod edit - violation of site rule #1: 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachers, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[volgadon]

Not sure how when this thread isn't based on a joking matter. I made another good thread and yet again, someone has to make light of it.

All maudlin and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Seriously though, are you going to address the overwhelming evidence showing that JS did practice polygamy?

[Sali]

You need to get the book called.....Joseph Smith, A Rough Stone Rolling

Good book....this book seemed to upset people....it went into his plural marriages. Many Church members were upset over this book. I have a copy and have read it twice and i dont see why people get upset over it. No one ever said or taught Joseph Smith was perfect.

I have leafed through the book and it looks pretty interesting. I didn't get the chance to read it fully.

Unfortunately I think that what we hear about Joseph Smith at church can give the impression of a perfect persona. The trouble can come in when people find out that he wasn't as perfect as they understood.

I believe Joseph Smith practised Polygamy. I don't purport to know the reasons why, but it doesn't bother me. If it's ok for other Prophets then it's ok for him as far as I'm concerned.

[rameumptom]

On the front page of the Nauvoo Expositor are articles regarding Joseph Smith's plural marriages.

The Dissenters complain that many false and damnable doctrines are taught in the church -- such as: 1st. plurality of Gods. This doctrine is, that the God of the Earth, is not the God of the Universe, but as much inferior to him, as we are to the God who immediately presides over us, and the latter and his creatures are subject to fail, as did Lucifer.

2nd. The Doctrine of Spiritual Wives. This doctrine is, that a man may have Spiritual wives, or may marry virgins; -- "That David and Solomon had many wives, yet in this they sinned not, save in the matter of Uriah."

The Warsaw Signal/Message of Illinois had various articles discussing plural marriage of the Mormons in Nauvoo, just north of them. They railed at Nauvoo's decision to allow and recognize marriages without a state marriage license (in order to allow private marriages for Joseph and others). And they did discuss the problems of Mormons and their plural wives:

In the Feb 7 1844 Warsaw Message, we read the following poem:

Buckey's Lamentations for the Want of More Wives.

1.

I once thought I had knowledge great,

But now I find 'tis small;

I once thought I'd Religion too,

But now I find I've none at all --

For I have but One lone wife,

And can obtain no more;

And the doctrine is, I can't be saved,

Unless I've half a score!.

2.

The NARROW GATE that Peter kept,

In ages long ago,

Is locked and barred since he gave up

The keys to BEARDLESS Jo.

And Jo proclaims it is too small,

And causes great delay,

And that he has permission got

To open the BROAD WAY.

3.

The Narrow gate did well enough

When Peter, James and John,

Did lead the Saints on Zion-ward

In SINGLE FILE along;

When bachelors, like good old Paul,

Could win the glorious prize

And MAIDS without a MARRIAGE-RITE,

Reach "mansions in the skies."

4.

But we have other teaching now,

Of great glories far;

How a SINGLE GLORY'S nothing more

Than some lone twinkling star.

The TWO-FOLD glory's like the moon,

That shines so bright at night,

Reflecting from her gracious Lord

Whatever he thinks right.

5.

A TENFOLD glory -- that's the prize!

Without it you're undone!

But with it you will shine as bright

As the bright shining sun.

There you may shine like mighty Gods,

Creating worlds so fair --

At least a WORLD for every WIFE

That you take with you there.

6.

The man that has got ten fair wives,

TEN worlds may create;

And he that has got less than this,

Will find a bitter fate.

The one or two that he might have,

He'll be deprived of then;

And they'll be given as TALENTS were

To him who has got TEN.

7.

And 'tis so here, in this sad life --

Such ills you must endure --

Some priest or king,* may claim your wife

Because that you are poor.

A REVELATION he may get --

Refuse it if you dare!

And you'll be damned perpetually,

By our good Lord the Mayor.

8.

But if that you yield willingly,

Your daughters and your wives,

In spiritual marriage to our POPE,

He'll bless you all your lives;

He'll seal you up, be damned you can't,

No matter what you do --

If that you only stick to him,

He swears HE'LL take you through."

9.

He'll lead you on through the broad gate,

Which he has opened wide --

In SOLID COLUMNS you shall march,

And enter side by side.

And no delay you'll meet with there,

But "forward march" you shall; --

For he's not only our LORD Mayor

But Lord Lieutenant Gene-RAL.

10.

This is the secret doctrine taught

By Joe and the red rams --

Although in public they deny --

But then 'tis all a sham.

They fear the indignation just,

Of those who have come here,

With hands that's clean and honest hearts

To serve the Lord in fear.

11.

Thus, all the TWELVE do slyly teach,

And slyly practice too;

And even SAGE PATRIARCH,

Wont have untied his shoe;

For sure, 'twould be quite impolite,

If not a great disgrace,

To have a WIDOW sister fair

Spit in a Prophet's face!

12.

But Jo at snaring beats them all

And at the rest does laugh;

For widows poor, and orphan girls,

He can ensnare with chaff.

He sets his snares around for all, --

And very seldom fails

To catch some thoughtless PARTRIDGES,

SNOW-birds or KNIGHT-ingales!

1[3].

But there are a hundred other birds

He never can make sing;

Who wont be dragged to hell.

By prophet, priest nor king.

Whose sires have bled in days gone by,

For their dear country's cause;

And who will still maintain its rights,

Its liberty and laws!

In the April 24 1844 Warsaw Signal, we read:

It can be proven, that Smith and his coadjutors have propogated the doctrine, that a man may hace spiritual wives -- thus by a cunning stroke of priest-craft, throwing wide open the door for every species of licentiousness, that can disgrace, or degrade a community.

It can be proven, that many of the leaders in Nauvoo, have spiritual wives, by which means, females have been so debased, as unblushingly to boast of their connection with Mormon Elders, and with pride point to the fathers of their illegitimate offspring.

All of these may be found here:

Uncle Dale's Old Mormon Articles: Warsaw Signal (1844: Jan.-June)

BTW, I believe Uncle Dale is a member of the CoC/RLDS, so has no Brighamite reason to believe or provide this info.

Edited February 21, 2011 by rameumptom

[Deo_Gratias]

Joseph Smith did indeed practice polygamy. In a book by B.H. Roberts a General Authority and church historian (available from deseret books) you can read all about JS and his polygamis activities. He first started practising it without the knowledge of his first wife Emma, who only found out about her husbands polygamy during a relief society presidency meeting when she learned he was in fact married to one of the counsellors!!

[LDSChristian]

I have leafed through the book and it looks pretty interesting. I didn't get the chance to read it fully.

Unfortunately I think that what we hear about Joseph Smith at church can give the impression of a perfect persona. The trouble can come in when people find out that he wasn't as perfect as they understood.

I believe Joseph Smith practised Polygamy. I don't purport to know the reasons why, but it doesn't bother me. If it's ok for other Prophets then it's ok for him as far as I'm concerned.

I think it comes down to how people think a prophet is supposed to be. I believe many people think a prophet of God has to be 100% perfect and if they're not then they're not a prophet. But, if you read in the Bible you'll see that's definitely not the case. People tend to forget prophets of God are also human like everyone else.

[Backroads]

Joseph Smith did indeed practice polygamy. In a book by B.H. Roberts a General Authority and church historian (available from deseret books) you can read all about JS and his polygamis activities. He first started practising it without the knowledge of his first wife Emma, who only found out about her husbands polygamy during a relief society presidency meeting when she learned he was in fact married to one of the counsellors!!

I guess the question everyone is asking is what were the sources. Lots of "historians" like to publish books for the media's sake when the fact is there are very few historical documents of any kind that you can 100% trust. Even journals and letters aren't necessary proof as anyone can say anything.

[Backroads]

I think it comes down to how people think a prophet is supposed to be. I believe many people think a prophet of God has to be 100% perfect and if they're not then they're not a prophet. But, if you read in the Bible you'll see that's definitely not the case. People tend to forget prophets of God are also human like everyone else.

Exactly.

I think everyone likes to make superheroes out of the prophets, that they are infallible. Lots of people will say "Yeah, we know he's human :unsure:". I think lots of people have this fantasy of a prophet who has breakfast everyday with God, of a man who is in a constant state of glory, continually receiving revelation. When it's just not the case.

[Dravin]

Exactly.

I think everyone likes to make superheroes out of the prophets, that they are infallible. Lots of people will say "Yeah, we know he's human :unsure:". I think lots of people have this fantasy of a prophet who has breakfast everyday with God, of a man who is in a constant state of glory, continually receiving revelation. When it's just not the case.

Whitewashing of historical figures goes beyond prophets too. Just look at someone like Lincoln, quite a few people think he didn't have a racist bone in his body, he did (he's also a product of his times which needs to be taken into account). Or people who think of George Washington as a mythical figure who could tell no lies (actually the Founding Fathers as a group are a fairly decent example of posthumous lionization) People like legendary figures, not reality.

[MarginOfError]

People like legendary figures, not reality.

Supporting evidence: Texas

[Dravin]

Supporting evidence: Texas

Not sure if you are refering to the history of the nation/state or the people associated with it. I suppose it works either way as the history of nations falls prey to the same phenomenon and the history of nations (and states) is ultimately the history of people.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Dravin

[LDSChristian]

Exactly.

I think everyone likes to make superheroes out of the prophets, that they are infallible. Lots of people will say "Yeah, we know he's human :unsure:". I think lots of people have this fantasy of a prophet who has breakfast everyday with God, of a man who is in a constant state of glory, continually receiving revelation. When it's just not the case.

Take Jonah. I think he's the best and most common example. He was a prophet of God yet he gave a prophecy that didn't take place and was angry with God. A prophet of God being angry with God. That's another thing, not every prophecy from the prophets of old happened. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Deo_Gratias]

I guess the question everyone is asking is what were the sources. Lots of "historians" like to publish books for the media's sake when the fact is there are very few historical documents of any kind that you can 100% trust. Even journals and letters aren't necessary proof as anyone can say anything.

The book written by BH Roberts; who was a general authority; was comissioned by the Twelve at that time.

[Backroads]

The book written by BH Roberts; who was a general authority; was comissioned by the Twelve at that time.

Oh, I'm not saying Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy. I personally think he did--all evidence I've seen suggests that.

I'm just saying that just because someone is a historian, a general authority, has work approved by the church, does not make it necessarily historically accurate. How much do you know about studying history and the fallacies involved?

[rex8499]

I recently read the first volume of the Joseph Smith Papers and it talks about his plural wives in there some, and seemed well grounded in truth.

[LDSChristian]

I recently read the first volume of the Joseph Smith Papers and it talks about his plural wives in there some, and seemed well grounded in truth.

And people say the church hides things. Yea, ok. It's also mentioned in our book for Institute this semester.

[PrinceofLight2000]

And people say the church hides things. Yea, ok. It's also mentioned in our book for Institute this semester.

Yea, verily, I say unto thee: I am skeptical.

[HiJolly]

An example of the Church "hiding" things would be the priesthood/RS manual a few years back, the one on Brigham Young. It never mentioned that he had more than one wife. I don't really have a problem with that, as the manual never really professed to be a history manual, but still....

HiJolly

[LDSChristian]

An example of the Church "hiding" things would be the priesthood/RS manual a few years back, the one on Brigham Young. It never mentioned that he had more than one wife. I don't really have a problem with that, as the manual never really professed to be a history manual, but still....

HiJolly

I don't have a problem with it either considering Solomon had 700 wives.

[pam]

Just for clarification..are you saying you don't have a problem with polygamy or that the old Priesthood/RS manual didn't mention that Brigham Young had more than one wife? That's what HiJolly is saying.

[LDSChristian]

Just for clarification..are you saying you don't have a problem with polygamy or that the old Priesthood/RS manual didn't mention that Brigham Young had more than one wife? That's what HiJolly is saying.

I'm referring to it being practiced when the church first started. I'm not for it, I'm just making a statement in regards to how people say someone isn't a prophet if they have more than one wife.

[MarginOfError]

I'm referring to it being practiced when the church first started. I'm not for it, I'm just making a statement in regards to how people say someone isn't a prophet if they have more than one wife.

Well then David and Solomon aren't really good examples, seeing as neither one of them was a prophet.